Major middle-of-the-night realization

[AmandaGRB]

I think I have had a major revelation (maybe an ephiany, even) about my DS and our homeschooling journey thusfar. : Ds is 7, we are currently doing first grade. Things don't go so well for us. He has even started telling me and anyone else who will listen that he hates school. For the life of me, I haven't been able to figure out what is wrong with him and why he acts the way he does. He doesn't want to learn how to do anything. He just wants to jump into something and immediately know how to do it. And, if he can't, he becomes very frustrated. He takes gymnastics...he wanted to go one time and be ready for the Olympics. He takes guitar lessons...he wanted to go one time and play like Jimmie Hendrix. I haven't realized what's been wrong. It hasn't been what's wrong with him, but what is wrong with what we are doing. I can't tell you how many times I have said to him, "you have to learn the parts of something before you can do whatever it is, blah, blah, blah." I'm sure I sound like Charlie Brown's teacher to him. I could kick myself for being such an idiot. He is just like me, so you would think I would have known all along how to help him and how to help him gain the knowledge he needs. I guess I never had that and I am just regurgitating everything that has been poured into me all my life and trying to change him like everyone tried to change me.

Anyway, if you are still with me this far, , I think DS is a visual-spatial learner (me too, actually). Now, I still don't know how to translate that knowledge into our homeschool, but I'm working on it. I have been up and researching this since 5:30 this morning. No one else I know is awake yet, or are at work, so I can't call and talk to them about it, thus, I'm posting here. Anyone have any input, comments, suggestions? I really need ideas on curriculum. I know I will get some unschool suggestions, but I can't let go completely and trust the process. I think we both need some structure and, maybe most importantly, a plan or guideline. Currently we are using Math Mammoth and that is definitely not working for him. We are also using ABeCeDarian for phonics and that is not working either. He can't spell AT ALL. I have been looking at All ABout Spelling and Singapore math. I am not sure now, though. I am kind of nervous about buying more stuff that may or may not work.

The two most important goals I had for this year were 1) to make learning fun for DS and 2) to bring us closer together as a family. We have not accomplished either of those and I have actally been seriously considering public school because of all the conflict. So, hopefully, I can now work with him instead of feeling like everything is a constant battle.

Anyone have any ideas? Thanks!!

Amanda

[True Blue]

I think RightStart math might work out fabulously for you guys. Its very visual with minimal writing, and they feel like they are getting somewhere each time. It's a bigger financial investment, but it's one I have never regretted.

[Needle in the Hay]

VSLs do well with games, lots of picture books, a variety of stuff to build with, a supply of paper, tape, stapler, pens, pencils, markers, etc, dvds, maps, dice -- really anything heavy on the visual and spatial!

For example for math my DS enjoys the Mathstart series of books. The stories are rather brief, the pictures are colorful and each deals with a different math concept. The Sir Cumference books are good too.
There are plenty of games that involve math. Double Shutter is great because not only do you add the dice you often need to use a different combination of numbers to add up to the same total in order to shut the tiles.

You don't necessarily need to completely let go and trust the process in order for homeschooling to be more harmonious for you and your DS. Just find things that interest him. Maybe do a science experiment on Thursdays, instead of following a math curriculum you could do a hands-on activity. For example, instead of him doing addition problems on paper, play a game where you each roll a few dice and then add up your total to see who has the most. Another time the one who gets the least amount wins, etc. VSLs tend to enjoy computer games and a lot of games involve math and reading, even when they are not specifically designed to be educational. And there are plenty out there that are designed to be educational and are also fun to play.

eta: I think it's so cool all of this just hit you in the middle of the night!

[AmandaGRB]

Thanks guys for your input. Keep them coming.

I stopped using the MM a couple weeks ago. We have been using games all along in addition to the MM and he really likes those. We play card games and use dice. We also play math bingo and recently we have been using color by number math sheets where you solve the addition problem and then color that space whatever color it says. We also play board games, like Monopoly Jr and Yahteeze, things like that. We do LOTS of art. All kinds of art...art appreciation, crafts, free drawing, sketch Tuesday...several times a day. Drawing is usually the first and last things he does each day with many times in between. He has complete and free access to all the art supplies, any time he wants to use them. We are using the R.E.A.L Science for kids, life and chem level 1. He loves science so using both of these were at his request. He usually wants to do science just about daily.

I have Rightstart Math. : I haven't been able to start it...I can't seem to get going with it. I don't know if it is just because it is so different from how I was taught or what it is. I think the first part of Level B is so far behind where he is, but when I try to skip to where I think he needs to start, I feel we have missed some important steps.

We read ALOT. We are currently reading Dr. Doolittle and Robin Hood along with several picture books each day. We literally have both our library cards fully checked out (that's 35 books on each card ). I have more on hold that DH will have to put on his card. This is all by his request. I know this sounds like alot, so I don't want anyone to get the idea that I make him sit at the kitchen table for hours on end, because I really don't. We also do lots of nature study...we currently have a praying mantis egg case we are watching each day to see if it is hatching. Even with all this, he tells me he is bored...I feel like I can't keep up with him sometimes. We work on FLL for grammer and SOTW for history.

Needle in the Hay, things have been so stressful for all of us lately, that I'm not sleeping well. So, I have lots of time to think and try to understand what we all need. Plus, it is quite at night so my brain has time to process. I didn't know what it was called until researching it this morning. As soon as I read the description of VSL, I realized what was going on.

Now, I'm just trying to figure it all out. Any help with the RS math would be greatly appreciated!

Amanda

[True Blue]

OK, as far RS goes, you have to go step by step from the beginning to fill in any holes in his learning. It might seem easy, and you might able to whiz through the first several lessons, but make sure to just do them. You can skip any repetition if you KNOW he gets it. It will pick up fairly quickly, and you will find it really solidifying what he knows. Also, if you're worried about him being "behind", you can take comfort in knowing level B covers all of first grade and much of second and even some of third and higher in its scope, so if you don't finish it this year, no biggie. Actually, the RS yahoo group is awesome....the people on there are very helpful and FULL of ideas. There is a link on the RS website.

[elizawill]

my daughter struggles with spelling too. i posted about it a couple of weeks ago. i've gone back and forth about what to do...(if anything). i don't want to buy spelling curriculum, so i finally decided to print off some sheets the other day to see what she thought about them. she loved them....so i will continue this route as long as she's cool with it. she also spells the list on www.spellingcity.com before we move onto another list. i like this site because she can spell the words, unscramble the words, and alphabetize the words. i started with list 1.

yea, i know. it's not creative & kinda lame. but she likes it and it's really helping her - so that's good imo

here's the website: http://www.superteacherworksheets.co...ng-levela.html

[AmandaGRB]

True Blue, thanks for the input on RS. I had pulled all the materials out for it when I put away the MM and have been reading over it and looking at what seems like a mountain of materials. I will look at it again. Thanks for the encouragement.

Needle in the Hay, I looked at those Mathstart books. Those look great! Looks like something DS would really like. And, my library has many of them. More books for DH's library card.

I think we are going to take a "spring break" of sorts. The public schools here are on break next week, I think...Ours starts now. Time to reconnect. I think we will spend the next few days (or however long it takes actually) to decompress from the math and phonics work we have been doing. Maybe spend some time getting our flower beds ready for spring planting...

I also think DS works from a right brain perspective. I'm not sure if that goes along with the VSL or if that is something separate. He wants to do the whole thing, then go back and learn any important parts he needs. I'm the same way. He has been playing this morning while I'm researching...we have chatted back and forth about these things this morning...He told me just a few minutes ago, "I know more than you think I know. I'm not stupid, you know." I think I have made him feel like he is by doing the math drills and things like that.

I still need input on reading instruction. I put away the ABCDarian books with the MM books. He does well with reading, I think. But, of course, he wants to do better. He wants to be able to read any and every thing and gets frustrated if he can't. I have found these books (Animal Antics by Nora Gaydos )that he likes. We tried Bob books and he hated those. Any ideas?

Like all of us, I just don't want to screw this up. I want him to love learning. Thanks for the help!

Amanda

[AmandaGRB]

elizawill, thanks for those websites. We looked at those and DS said he would like to try those...especially the cutting and gluing for the alphabetizing. I didn't see your post about your spelling issues, but will go look and see what other suggestions you received. Thanks!

I know what you mean about not wanting to buy more curriculum. I don't either...but, I really like the All About Spelling program and it has great reviews for being good for both spelling and phonics instruction. So, I'm not sure what to do with that.

Amanda

[True Blue]

Ok a reading idea....how well does he read? We used headsprout for DS, and DD is currently using the program. It's a success based program, designed so it adjusts for each user and they have a 90% success rate...so low on frustration. They get readers very quickly. It teaches in such a way that they learn sounds that are constant first, so not the "normal" cvc way. For example, they learn "ee" very early...bc "ee" always makes the same sound. Make sense?

Oh and for RS...don't read so much into it. It's pretty user friendly. Just open to the first lesson and do it!

[elizawill]

Originally Posted by AmandaGRB

elizawill, thanks for those websites. We looked at those and DS said he would like to try those...especially the cutting and gluing for the alphabetizing. I didn't see your post about your spelling issues, but will go look and see what other suggestions you received. Thanks!

I know what you mean about not wanting to buy more curriculum. I don't either...but, I really like the All About Spelling program and it has great reviews for being good for both spelling and phonics instruction. So, I'm not sure what to do with that.

Amanda

www.spellingcity.com has games you can play too. you just plug in the words and your ds can play games to learn them. my dd doesn't like the games, but she likes to take the quiz, lol. anyway - just another thought. i may buy scrabble junior down the road as well....but right now, it might frustrate my dd - so i'll wait until she's ready

[AmandaGRB]

His reading level I'm really not sure about. I had him take the reading assessment from Let's Go Learn the other day and these are the results from that:

overall grade level was 1.5
Identify high frequency words (this was timed...he could identify the words, but took too long because he sounds out each letter) level mid K
Word recognition (could read words like blizzard and rumble) level high 1st
phonics (basic rules) level mid 2nd
spelling level mid K
Vocabulary level high 3rd (due to those 70 library books we have checked out)

What I noticed when he took the assessment and when he reads in general is that he sounds out every letter and then tries to make it fit to the context of what he is seeing. He can read, it is just almost painfully slow and disjointed with him sounding out each letter. So, he knows what each letter sounds like, but he maybe had trouble blending them together? I have also noticed, in his guitar class for instance, if the instructor is reading from the notes he types up for the students, DS doesn't know where on the page the instructor is reading from, so doesn't know where to look for guidance. Maybe this is a skill learned later?

I guess part of my problem is I don't really know what is normal skill levels for
DS as he has never fit the developmental charts. Some things he will be way ahead on and some will be far behind. These aren't new issues, just different presentations.

Amanda

[AmandaGRB]

elizawill, we have Scrabble Jr. and Boggle Jr. DS likes them, but doesn't play them often. He does get frustrated, because he doesn't know the spelling rules (like when to use c or k). The scrabble jr. set does have the blank board on one side and on the other side has the words on there that you have to match the tiles to. That is the side we are still using when we play.

I have some of those workbooks you can find at Walmart. They are in a box and every few months DS will get one out and work on it. He got one yesterday and did half the book. One page was the alphabet with a line out from each letter. It asked him to go through the house and find items that begin with each letter and write it down on the line. He loved this and worked on this for about 45 minutes. I looked at it after he was finished and he had only spelled 3 words correctly (bed, eggs, x-ray). Of course, I would never point this out to him and didn't say anything about the spelling, but praised him for his effort and the creative things he came up with. One of the words was supposed to be strawberries, only he spelled it strolbres.

Anyway, it was cute. But, my point to all that was, I am definitely leaning towards some kind of spelling intervention and I think your website and worksheet recommendations will be a nice start to that. I also think maybe working on his spelling would help him with reading.

Amanda

[LauraLoo]

My suggestion would be to continue reading up on VSL's before you buy any curriculum or games. There is no one size fits all approach to VSLs - so even though you are closer with your recent revelation, you still may need to hone in on some things. Don't feel the need to rush!

Here is a great site for VSLs:

http://www.gifteddevelopment.com/Vis...earner/vsl.htm

and another:

http://neurolearning.com/visual%20thinkers.htm

[AmandaGRB]

LauraLoo, thanks for the suggestions. I'm not rushing into buying anything else. We are taking some time to regroup. I've been reading on the gifteddevelopment website. It has been very helpful so far. I have often wondered if DS is gifted. If not, he is definitely "different" in some way that I haven't quite put my finger on.

Amanda

[True Blue]

His reading sounds like he could use more help still, but I wouldn't say he is "behind", either. My DS learned to read early bc he wanted to, but he has friends in ps who aren't reading as fluently as he is, and they are probably on target, kwim? FWIW, when DS was at the point your DS is...knowing the letters, sounds, etc but having a very hard time putting it all together and actually reading the words, we used headsprout. For DD, we just started out with headsprout instead of anything else, and she is doing well. It teaches them to see the parts of the word and put them together well instead of individual letter sounds. That said, it's not cheap, but you can do a free trial of the first 2 or 3 levels and see how it meshes for your DS. They also have half-off coupons sometimes. Then again, it could all click for him in a few months on his own.

[cottonwood]

My kids don't start reading learning until they're around eight years old, and my two oldest (10 and 12) are reading adult level text fluently, so from my perspective I don't see anything to worry about with your son (in terms of being "behind".) You say he is frustrated not being able to read at a higher level, and I'm just wondering if that has anything to do with his frustration while being instructed and your distress at him being distressed -- maybe he's internalized this idea that he's *supposed* to be reading better than he does? So where he is is never satisfactory, never enough. Just a thought. If it were me I'd try letting go of the instruction for a while and just work on impressing on him that where he is is a perfectly good place to be in itself.

What you described about him getting frustrated with individual steps, just wanting to be able to DO the thing and you mentioned how much he likes science, it made me wonder, maybe it is that he is just really process oriented -- in other words, the process needs to be fulfilling in itself. Science tends to be like that, at least for little kids, because it's so hands-on and that in itself is compelling.

My kids are all very much that way, and I suspect a lot of people are, and it's why traditional educational methods go in one ear and out the other for so many of us.

That process-oriented method of learning can be really easily tied to basic math -- things like building, baking, traveling, buying, racing, playing cards, making music... all of those activities are things that are good to do in themselves, make sense, are relevant to their lives.

Regarding plans and structure -- I just want to point out that you don't need a use a curriculum, or traditional teaching tools, to have plans and structure.

[ohiomommy1122]

I havent read other responses so hopefully I dont repet what they said but.............

my DS is 8 and the SAME WAY I used to get so frustrated by ALL the homeschool kids we know who love school There are just some things I tell DS he HAS to do PERIOD like math but for other subject I have found that doing lots of hands on stuff lots of building/ making things he remembers more and I get less resistance we also used lots of DVD on Subjects from the library like if we are learing about Rome I check out anything they have DVD wise on Rome we still read but the extra video watching/ hands on stuff helps like build roman helmets, weapons ans such, it requires more work and planning on my part but over the last 2 years I get a lot less resistance now Sure DS stioll says he dislikes school but he also does like some stuff also ask him what he wants to learn about and try to incorporate learning into whatever his interests are we have an animal note book that DS love he picks an animal at the libray and we get some books on it then we print, or color a picture to poput in notebook along with 5 facts we learned about this animal and we quiz relitives to see if they can guess the animal also we use lots of computer/ learning games and we have recently cut back on a lot of his writing and do lots of verbal work.

Hang in there I think boys are just more active and dont want to sit and learn they want to get thier hands in it so to speak one more thing try to add lots of fun active games is school to that gets them moving Sometimes when doing math facts I make him do 10 jumping jacks if he gets it wrong while reciting the correct answer like 2x2=4 or other movment

hope this helps sorry bout all the typos I was in a big hurry with a 1 yr old on my lap fighting me with keys!

[Lillian J]

Originally Posted by AmandaGRB

The two most important goals I had for this year were 1) to make learning fun for DS and 2) to bring us closer together as a family. We have not accomplished either of those and I have actally been seriously considering public school because of all the conflict. So, hopefully, I can now work with him instead of feeling like everything is a constant battle.

Anyone have any ideas?

Yes, I'd forget about "curriculum" and start letting him learn in a more hands-on and natural way that feels good to him. If he says he hates "school," then "school" isn't working for him - his enjoyment of learning needs to be more casual and naturally woven into the rest of life. I think Needle in the Hay offered some great ideas - I'd start there and just see how it goes - you have nothing to lose and everything to gain:

VSLs do well with games, lots of picture books, a variety of stuff to build with, a supply of paper, tape, stapler, pens, pencils, markers, etc, dvds, maps, dice -- really anything heavy on the visual and spatial!

For example for math my DS enjoys the Mathstart series of books. The stories are rather brief, the pictures are colorful and each deals with a different math concept. The Sir Cumference books are good too.
There are plenty of games that involve math. Double Shutter is great because not only do you add the dice you often need to use a different combination of numbers to add up to the same total in order to shut the tiles.

You don't necessarily need to completely let go and trust the process in order for homeschooling to be more harmonious for you and your DS. Just find things that interest him. Maybe do a science experiment on Thursdays, instead of following a math curriculum you could do a hands-on activity. For example, instead of him doing addition problems on paper, play a game where you each roll a few dice and then add up your total to see who has the most. Another time the one who gets the least amount wins, etc. VSLs tend to enjoy computer games and a lot of games involve math and reading, even when they are not specifically designed to be educational. And there are plenty out there that are designed to be educational and are also fun to play.

And I really though FourLittleBirds' comments were important (which is not to say anyone else's weren't, but they just jumped out at me):

You say he is frustrated not being able to read at a higher level, and I'm just wondering if that has anything to do with his frustration while being instructed and your distress at him being distressed -- maybe he's internalized this idea that he's *supposed* to be reading better than he does? So where he is is never satisfactory, never enough. Just a thought. If it were me I'd try letting go of the instruction for a while and just work on impressing on him that where he is is a perfectly good place to be in itself.

Here's a Rebecca Rupp "Good Stuff" column on board games.
There are some good threads here with ideas:
board/card games

He has lots of time to learn things he's touching on now. I guess I'll toss in one of my own embarrassing anxiety stories (from the article on my family's homeschooling story):

When we started homeschooling, I soon found, to my great surprise, that my son was rapidly learning things on his own that I couldn't have dreamed of. I had thought I'd be a good teacher, what I hadn't realized was that he would be his own best teacher.

One day, for example, we started out on a long drive in the car, and I handed him some little books I wanted him to read to me while I drove - Little Bear, and Frog and Toad books. We hadn't been "working with reading" for a while, and I was getting anxious about it, so I thought we could make good use of the time on the road to "catch up." He was disappointed, and said he'd planned on reading his Nintendo Power magazine on the trip. I insisted that we needed to "work on" his reading. We went back and forth. If my anxiety had been registered on a meter, the needle would have been banging on the high end! We were "behind." I wondered what had ever made me think we were capable of homeschooling? Finally, he whined, "Well, can't I just read you my Nintendo Power?" Anxiety rising, and assuming he was just looking at pictures in that magazine, I called his bluff with, "Fine! You do that!" Well, he did. He opened the book and began to read long, relatively technical passages with multi-syllable words. He had taught himself to read beyond the Little Bear, and Frog and Toad, level because he wanted the information he could find in books that required more advanced reading. By the way, I've heard a number of other moms share almost identical stories. And I continued reading other literature aloud to him till he was 12 (we both loved it) and too busy delving into his own books so fast that I couldn't keep up.

You just never know where learning may come from - but children do tend to find their own orientation what they're pursuing an interest. They may need help once they get going - absolutely! - but at least they tend to have a natural inclination to know what direction they want to go in.

Lillian