President Obama on Education - Page 2

[Leta]

Personally, I'd be more likely to go for a longer school year if we had shorter school days. Cripe, if we had half days as an option, I'd even be willing to think about year round school.

I feel like somewhere, we all got confused about the purpose school was supposed to serve. It's not a jobs program. It's not childcare for older kids. It's school, period.

I would be very supportive of efforts to institute gov't funded childcare, or push for childcare subsidies, but I think we need to be clear about that not being a part of education reform. Unfortunately, I seem to be in the minority in this.

[pixiewytch]

Exactly. I'm not against government subsidies per se. I'm against the fact that all of this is riding on standardized tests and pushing early academics in pre K. I don't see this in the child's best interests.

[gcgirl]

I am so sick of hearing this kind of thing too - how more hours and more curriculum will make our students more competitive. I tend to side more with Fareed Zakariah on this one. He talks about the great strength of the U.S. education system--which is being phased out by all this standardized testing--being that it values creativity, risk-taking and problem solving. He points out that many nations with "better outcomes - usually test scores" don't necessarily produce students who can think on their own, but more often produce students who have crammed and memorized a set curriculum of facts and processes. (He specifically compared his education in India to his education in the U.S.).

His concern for the U.S. is my concern too - that all these standardized tests and standardized curricula are going to lead to even worse outcomes than we have now. But the scores might look better!

[Lillian J]

Originally Posted by pixiewytch

Don't get me wrong, I love Obama, but it sickens me to see him falling for this same rhetoric we've heard over and over.

It's hard, because look where he and his wife both got from hard academic work within the system. His mom used to get him up way before dawn to tutor him, and he said that when he grumbled, she'd say, "Look, buster, I'm not enjoying this so much either!" He's said quite passionately that he wants school children to get the things they're missing now, though - music and art and all the rest of the good stuff for enjoying life - rather than just grinding through the stupid test-prep nonsense. It will be "interesting" to see things unfold. - Lillian

[Lillian J]

Originally Posted by gcgirl

I tend to side more with Fareed Zakariah on this one.

I love that man! - do you have a link to anything on this? - Lillian

[pixiewytch]

Originally Posted by Lillian J

It's hard, because look where he and his wife both got from hard academic work within the system. His mom used to get him up way before dawn to tutor him, and he said that when he grumbled, she'd say, "Look, buster, I'm not enjoying this so much either!" He's said quite passionately that he wants school children to get the things they're missing now, though - music and art and all the rest of the good stuff for enjoying life - rather than just grinding through the stupid test-prep nonsense. It will be "interesting" to see things unfold. - Lillian

Oh, I know. I first found his story touching but now I'm beginning to tire of it as its used to push an agenda. As you say, I know he believes in the importance of music and arts and programs for inner cities as well so we'll have to just be cautious and see how it unfolds.

[hotmamacita]

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[Linda on the move]

Originally Posted by True Blue

The only thing I can say, is I watched a recent speech he made and specifically mentioned maintaining a parent's right to homeschool.

There are a lot of people who think that more oversight of homeschoolers is a good idea, and don't think that oversight is stepping on a parent's right to homeschool. They believe that the goverment has a right to make sure the kids are being educated. I really don't trust politicians unless they spell out exactly what they mean. Requiring the same test of homeschoolers that are required of schools would make sense to many people.

Originally Posted by Lillian J

It will remain a state issue - it doesn't involve federal funding. - Lillian

but education used to be a state issue. Until No Child Left Behind, the feds didn't demand standardized test. Each states could chose to use them or not. Now, ever state is required to use a standarized test. Because we've already started down the path of the feds telling the states what to do about education, how much more of a leap would it really be for the feds to force the states to require homeschoolers to take the standardized tests?

Please don't mistake my remarks to mean that I think that homeschoolers should be required to take standardized test, (I don't even like them for schooled children) just that I think we may see a move in that direction.

I also think there is a chunk of the homeschooling community that will happily go down that path, esp. if they are given financial incentives.

Face it, does anything Obama has ever said lead you to believe that he sees value in children being allowed to unfold naturally? That learning can happen when things are being taught? That learning is natural or joyful? That he thinks that American parents, overall, are doing a good job raising their kids?

[hotmamacita]

Originally Posted by Linda on the move

There are a lot of people who think that more oversight of homeschoolers is a good idea, and don't think that oversight is stepping on a parent's right to homeschool. They believe that the goverment has a right to make sure the kids are being educated.

Constitutionally?

[True Blue]

As far as testing homeschoolers goes...until I was one, it made total sense that they should be tested. It depends on how you view things. Don't kids have a natural right to education? Not all homeschoolers are necessarily getting a good one (and neither are schooled kids, of course). But, if you consider it a child's right to be educated vs the parent's right to educate them as they please...you get two totally different points of view and sets of solutions, kwim? One would make testing obvious, to ensure parents' are providing what is rightfully the child's (just as a child has a right to safe home, food, etc), whereas the other would make testing contrary to the parent's right to teach what they see fit. I'm not for testing bc I don't want to deal with it; however, I also know I am teaching my kids well and they would pass any kind of testing with flying colors.

[Lillian J]

Originally Posted by hotmamacita

Constitutionally?

Lots of people don't believe they could encroach on homeschooling. This wonderful essay by an appellate attorney on the legality of California private-school homeschooling covers quite a bit of the Constitutional aspect - very interesting. Lillian

[saintmom]

I don't see how legislation could ever pass for hs in ANY state that could come close to the all children left behind nonsense unless they had the funding to enforce it.As it is now my states on a pretty tight budget.To be honest they should be sending me a letter of congratulations;In the last 19 years I've saved them over 336,000$ if you figure it at 6000 per year per student.

[Linda on the move]

Originally Posted by hotmamacita

Constitutionally?

There's nothing in the constitution to back up No Child Left Behind, having a national drinking age, or a lot of other stuff the feds come up with. The constitution only grants the fed. governement the right to collect taxes during war. Read the constitution sometime while really thinking about what is going on with our government.

They could tell the states that they will cut of funding if they don't regulate the homeschoolers they way the feds want them to. The states would just do it. Just because homeschoolers don't get funding doesn't mean that the feds wouldn't stoop to cut off funding for other things.

Also, there's a really really big difference between saying that homeschooling will be allowed and that homeschoolers will be allowed to educate their children as they see fit. Big difference, esp for a lot of us on this board.