Job Discrimination!!!

[BrooklynActor]

(Cross-Posted in Dad's)

So I found out today that my boss in a meeting stated that he wasn't sure of my "commitment" to being able to work for the company because I'm having a baby! Yes because I'm having a baby he's questioning, behind my back, how much of a "distraction" my child will be!!! What is wrong with people!? one would think perhaps the opposite, that with the MASSIVE responsibility of having a child that one would be even more worried about MAINTAINING his/her job to provide for his/her family NOT the other way around. I found out my other boss kept his ENTIRE marriage and pregnant wife a secret from everyone because of exactly this! And his wife works in our office!!! NO ONE KNEW!!! everyday before arriving to work they would take their rings off and never mention or interact with eachother to hide the pregnancy! I don't understand this!? I had a long conversation with my DP about telling individual I work with about our pregnancy and for the longest time I kept it a secret, very much keeping my personal life removed from my professional. However after some time, I began to feel like I was trying to "hide" the fact. I would avoid conversations and deflect anything that has to do with my DP, the baby and I. Finally I had had enough. But now I am finding out that my job is in jeopardy because of exactly this! The powers that be are now saying behind closed doors that my baby is going to be a distraction and they need %100 for their clients! HOW DARE THEY!! That "well he's not going to be getting much sleep so what go is he going to be!" I feel soo upset and turned on! What's wrong with people!! Great so the fact that I'm having a child put me in jeopardy of loosing my job!!?? What sense does that make!? and who's business is it anyway AT ALL what is going on in my own personal life! IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THEM!!! HOW DARE THEY!!! THEY HAVE NO RIGHT TO JUDGE ME!!! I know we're in a recession and every industry is looking to make cut backs, down size and basically look for ANY excuse to fire you but this is absurd! One really feels like they need to watch their back, not trust ANYONE!
Can anyone relate!? has anyone experience anything like this!? in a time when you should be celebrating being met with such utter discrimination!!!!

[velochic]

I can relate because if your boss had been my boss and said that about me... he would have been absolutely RIGHT.

When I had my baby, I wasn't "distracted", I was 100% consumed by parentood. It was absolutely the most.freaking.awesome.thing in this world! So awesome that dh and I committed to being a single-income family so I could stay home.

It sounds like you're very angry, and I don't know what to say, except that it sounds like your boss knows what happens when people have kids (and how parents become so head-over-heels in love with their babies that they are ALWAYS distracted).

I would never work in a place that didn't value family time and realize that all parents get "distracted"... and overwhelmed, and frustrated, and exhausted, and, and, and...

[Snuzzmom]

I am not sure how discrimination law mechanics work, but I'm fairly certain it's illegal for them to fire you due to pregnancy. And they certainly can't once you're on leave.

Can you look up the laws in your state and have them at the ready, just in case?

[ChetMC]

Well...

DH would like to eventually have his own company. I have actually told him to not hire women of child bearing age until the company reaches a size where they could absorb the mat leave easily. Of course, you can't discriminate against people in this way (at least not in Canada), but you can hold out for somebody more qualified... and realistically, there aren't many women in DH's field anyway, so it's unlikely to matter.

In Canada, mat leave is a year. It's wonderful in so many ways, but if you're trying to get a small business off the ground, and you lose one of your two employees for a year, that can be a major blow. Sure you can hire somebody temporary, but it's not always easy to adequately fill a skilled position and get the new person up to speed. When a person leaves for mat leave they often take a lot of specialized experience and knowledge out the door with them.

Even though I'm home with our kids full time, DH's family impacts his work and it would be stupid to deny that. When he was 23 and didn't have a life his job got everything he had. Now he has to balance work and family. His advanced skills and experience offset this now that he's so much further along in his career, but I think it's naive to ignore that employers can benefit from work-a-holic singles with no significant commitments outside of their job.

I'm not saying this is fair. But there's an episode of Drew Carey where everybody with families leaves early when there's a snowstorm to get their kids and all of the single people have to stay and work, and they're bitter... and you can't really blame them.

Now, I think that good employers recognize the realities of this, and accept that you can have kids and be a great employee... even if you need some more flexibility and support to do it. And if you want to keep the people you have (thus retaining their skills and knowledge), you need to support them through various stages of life, including having kids, caring for sick parents, etc. But some companies are better able to do this kind of thing, especially larger companies.

I don't know how much of this relates to the OPs specific situation, but BrooklynActor you might want to start looking for a new job, because there are companies out there who are certainly supportive of parents and families.

[AbbieB]

First, I'd like to say . I'm appalled by this.

Second, I'd like to say . I can't believe people on MDC are defending the boss/company on this.

I got the impression that the OP is going to be a Dad. I'm not sure what kind of protections there are for him on this issue. I think that the company could come up with any piddly reason to fire him and would do so with no fear of sexual discrimination being thrown back at them (or any other maternity protection there might be.) For what it's worth my DH is yelling, "Tell him to call the ACLU."

I know this kind of thing is a reality, and it happens, but that certainly does not make it right. And it is definitely not something any parent should be sitting back and condoning.

I get that there is another side to the issue, as the PP about owning a small business pointed out, but not hiring someone is completely different than firing someone for a "what if". (I'm not saying the discrimination is OK...it's a topic for another thread.) Fire away if the employee is not getting the job done, coming in late, leaving early, missing days, falling asleep at his desk because of all of those nights of missed sleep, etc... But firing an employee because he has a baby at home, OUTRAGEOUS!

OP, I'm sorry you are experiencing such during this time of joy. Congratulations on the (soon to be) new baby. You are about to experience love on a whole new level.

[Murihiku]

Huh, I thought this was just one of those things that people would think privately to themselves but would never, ever say out loud. Especially not to an employee! I would have thought (but perhaps I am naive) that it was illegal to say something like that to an employee?

[Murihiku]

Originally Posted by ChetMC

I have actually told him to not hire women of child bearing age until the company reaches a size where they could absorb the mat leave easily.

That's kind of unfortunate for all the women of child-bearing age who don't want to have children.

[BrooklynActor]

Originally Posted by AbbieB

First, I'd like to say . I'm appalled by this.

Second, I'd like to say . I can't believe people on MDC are defending the boss/company on this.

I got the impression that the OP is going to be a Dad. I'm not sure what kind of protections there are for him on this issue. I think that the company could come up with any piddly reason to fire him and would do so with no fear of sexual discrimination being thrown back at them (or any other maternity protection there might be.) For what it's worth my DH is yelling, "Tell him to call the ACLU."

I know this kind of thing is a reality, and it happens, but that certainly does not make it right. And it is definitely not something any parent should be sitting back and condoning.

I get that there is another side to the issue, as the PP about owning a small business pointed out, but not hiring someone is completely different than firing someone for a "what if". (I'm not saying the discrimination is OK...it's a topic for another thread.) Fire away if the employee is not getting the job done, coming in late, leaving early, missing days, falling asleep at his desk because of all of those nights of missed sleep, etc... But firing an employee because he has a baby at home, OUTRAGEOUS!

OP, I'm sorry you are experiencing such during this time of joy. Congratulations on the (soon to be) new baby. You are about to experience love on a whole new level.

thank you for your comments. I have to say I was pretty shocked that the first responses HERE of all places were actually taking the side of the company! There is a serious problem in regards to having children in the country(USA) and the work place. I think women experience it a whole lot more than men obviously but still there is a major problem across the board!

and yes they will come up with some other reason to fire. Jobs are so hard to keep these days and it seems like anything is a reason to fire.

But the most appauling issue is exactly that, having the audacity to consider firing me because I'm having a child and not having any actual issue with my work. If anything I have done amazing for them. But to assume "oh he's having a child, that's GOING to be an issue" is disgusting. Look exactly that, if it becomes an issue, if I miss work, or fall asleep during meeting, etc than yes those are reason but to assume well he's no use to us now is complete discrimination!
judge me on my work, not on a hypothetical.
I know it's going to be hard but I have the responsibility to my child and my DP do you really think I'm in any position to jeapordize that!? if anything it's pushed me to work harder to make sure I'm still on top of my game.

[ChetMC]

Totally

Originally Posted by Murihiku

That's kind of unfortunate for all the women of child-bearing age who don't want to have children.

It totally is, but can you blame somebody for not wanting to take the risk if their company or department could face legitimate problems as a result?

My MIL complained to somebody back when she was in her forties that she was worried about looking for work and having to compete with younger women in her field. She was actually told not worry. Employers would take one look at her and figure they didn't need to worry about her getting pregnant, she'd be fine.

I'm not saying any of this is fair. But like Murihiku said, people think it even if they don't say it out loud. I think that people are better off recognizing that some jobs, departments or companies are less able or willing to support employees with families.

I'm glad that DH doesn't work somewhere that he has to prove that his family won't impact his work, potentially putting him in the situation of putting his work first to demonstrate that he can forget he has family between 9am and 5pm. Instead, he has worked for employers that support families. DH can stay home when I'm sick. He can leave work for appointments. He can go in late if we've been up with a sick baby, and it's not an issue because he gets his work done and done well in the end. But he used to be one of those people who didn't have a life, and only worked, and I can't blame employers for looking for those people to hire.

Now, not all jobs are flexible, but even if your job isn't flexible, you're better off with an employer who is as understanding as they can be. I think it's naive to think that the law can fully protect parents in all jobs and all lines of work. I also think it's naive to think that having a family won't impact your work at all, or that you can keep your family from impacting your work without it impacting your family.

[Murihiku]

I should clarify that I think discrimination against parents is as wrong as discrimination against people of a particular gender, race, or religion, or people with a disability. I'm very sorry that the OP is going through this. I am actually jaw-droppingly appalled too, but I decided to go for the understated rhetorical response.

Originally Posted by BrooklynActor

(Cross-Posted in Dad's)

one would think perhaps the opposite, that with the MASSIVE responsibility of having a child that one would be even more worried about MAINTAINING his/her job to provide for his/her family NOT the other way around.

Does your partner know you feel this way? I have noticed that some men take their responsibilities as a father to mean they should work harder and longer hours, while their wives/partners who are at home with the baby would rather interpret that responsibility as meaning they should get home earlier. This is a very common conflict in the early days of a new baby and it's as well to talk about it before the birth.

[cotopaxi]

Originally Posted by velochic

parents become so head-over-heels in love with their babies that they are ALWAYS distracted).

ALWAYS? At work? More so than other people are with their lives? Yes, sometimes I'm a little undead from lack of sleep, but so is the 24-year-old girl next to me, only with her it's because she's single and still going out drinking on weeknights sometimes.

I personally love the mental stimulation of work and throw myself fully into it during the hours I'm there. I spend less time there than I used to, but I'm more efficient. Less chit-chat and more nose-to-the-grindstone because I don't want to have to stay late and miss time with my baby. Overall I think I'm exactly as productive as before.

[kbond]

To the OP, I would recommend that you document this incident as soon as possible. This doesn't necessarily have to be really formal, but get it written down in as specific a format as possible. If possible, get someone else who heard the comment, to sign what you've written down.

If you do get fired and want to pursue a legal claim, then having this type of documentation will help your case immensely. (If there are any e-mails, save them!) That doesn't mean that this type of case would be easy to win or that anything concrete would come of it, but documentation, concrete and specific as possible, will help.

As a previous poster noted, most employees in America are "at-will" which means that you can be fired for any reason at any time. BUT, they cannot fire you for a "wrong" reason, and wrong usually includes gender, race, or age discrimination. Depending on your state, you might have more protection based on family status. You'd need to consult a local employment lawyer.

I wouldn't jump the gun on anything, but taking some precautionary steps in the event that this does escalate and you choose legal action can't hurt.

[J's Mombee]

I actually met with a well-known non-profit in my city when I returned to the job market for a job interview. The interview went well, until we began to discuss the employment gap, due to my time as a SAHM. The interviewer actually recounted stories of her parenting, and told me that she would not tolerate my running later or calling out due to child care issues. I was hurt, embaressed, I felt blind sided, and I was appalled. I had not been late or called out, I was on a friggin interview, but I was being discriminated against based on a 'what if.'

I really wanted that job, and I had been waiting for a job opening since I graduated from undergrad.

I am convinced that I did not get that job because of my family obligations or the fact that I had a family. If all businesses operated this way, more families would be very poor. Or there would be lots more people waiting until they succeed in their careers to have children.

It really sucked, and was a blow to my ego. I knew that it was discrimination, and I could have done something about it. I cried, and moved on, because I decided that I probably didn't want to work with a company that would not be supportive to my family obligations. I don't mean supportive out of the ordinary, but if DS got sick, and DH couldn't stay home (because we shared that responsibility... my turn, then his turn if it was workable) I would need to stay home. The funny thing is that I hardly get sick, and DS doesn't need me to stay at home a lot at all, so she was definitely discriminating on a huge 'what if.'

I am not saying that the OP should just leave his job.. that wouldn't be realistic in this economy. I guess in my 'long-winded' way, I am saying, I sympathize. I am sorry that you are dealing with this.

I have found that many people are more organized and reliable once they have children. You have to be to make it work.

[chinaKat]

Originally Posted by cotopaxi

ALWAYS? At work? More so than other people are with their lives? Yes, sometimes I'm a little undead from lack of sleep, but so is the 24-year-old girl next to me, only with her it's because she's single and still going out drinking on weeknights sometimes.

No. Kidding.

I was a terrible employee in my 20's. I came in hungover, I called in at the drop of a hat, I yacked on the phone/internet with friends, I took long lunches with co-workers.

Now that I'm a mom, I'm all about getting in there and doing my work as efficiently as possible. I'm a way better worker now.

[Amylcd]

Originally Posted by velochic

It sounds like you're very angry, and I don't know what to say, except that it sounds like your boss knows what happens when people have kids (and how parents become so head-over-heels in love with their babies that they are ALWAYS distracted).

I'm head over heels in love with my children, but I am not always distracted by them I find it more than a little strange that anyone would be so obsessed with their children that they can not function normally.

[MusicianDad]

Originally Posted by AbbieB

First, I'd like to say . I'm appalled by this.

Second, I'd like to say . I can't believe people on MDC are defending the boss/company on this.

Both of those...

As for being to distracted to work because you have a new baby. DH certainly isn't too distracted to work because of DS. I'm starting to feel a little antsy about being home all day and I'm looking forward to going back to work. Not because I don't like being a dad, but because I do like to work.

I really cannot support discriminating against someone just because they might get pregnant or are pregnant. Whether you get or keep a job should be based on how well you can do the job, not on some "what if" that may never even happen.

[New_Natural_Mom]

When I got pregnant my (female) boss made my life HELL. The week of my due date she gave me the worst review of my life and basically told me I was on probation and might be fired. Nice way to start mat leave right?

I went back to work 12 weeks later to a different boss (hallelujah!) but was doing the same work. I developed a new program that has significantly increased company revenue and my work has become a benchmark for the company. I just had my review and it was glowing. Mind you my son turns 1 next month. :

Nothing changed here except that the child/pregnancy hater is no longer my boss. I am still me, still doing the same work - it is the perception that has changed. My current boss (awesome) has kids, as does his boss. So they see how though it may impact some things (like having to adjust hours or do more work late at night) the output still retains my awesomeness.

It is VERY stressful to be in such a situation. It is illegal to discriminate on the basis of pregnancy - even weirder that the discrimination is against a man with a pregnant wife. That would be fun litigation to watch. I would keep a record of your work performance, reviews, customer comments, etc in order to protect you should anything happen. Get everything in writing (email) and save save save. I went so far as to flat out ask my old boss in an email if she felt my pregnancy was impacting my work. She backed down FAST.

:

[Jennifer3141]

I do see both sides of the issue in that maternity leave can cause issues in a company, particularly a small-to-medium size business BUT above and beyond work, people need to have lives. Expecting your employees to never procreate is idiotic. Discriminating against them for doing so is incredibly moronic.

For our lives, it really does make a difference when a woman goes on mat leave or goes down to part time like many of the partners in DH's practice do after having children.

If a female doctor in his practice goes down to half time, that means DH spends more time at work seeing more patients which means he can't come home to OUR kids. But that's just the breaks of the game. And in my fmaily, it's led to DD wondering why it isn't as important for Daddy to be around nearly as much as Mommy. Daddy time is a treat here sometimes. :

Someday, we need to grow up as a society enough to recognize that fathers are just as important as mothers and good parenting is important not only to that specific family but to the company as well and the globe as a whole. Happy, fulfilled employees are motived and innovative. And inquistive, fulfilled people change the world.

[hippiemommaof4]

Originally Posted by AbbieB

First, I'd like to say . I'm appalled by this.

Second, I'd like to say . I can't believe people on MDC are defending the boss/company on this.

I got the impression that the OP is going to be a Dad. I'm not sure what kind of protections there are for him on this issue. I think that the company could come up with any piddly reason to fire him and would do so with no fear of sexual discrimination being thrown back at them (or any other maternity protection there might be.) For what it's worth my DH is yelling, "Tell him to call the ACLU."

I know this kind of thing is a reality, and it happens, but that certainly does not make it right. And it is definitely not something any parent should be sitting back and condoning.

I get that there is another side to the issue, as the PP about owning a small business pointed out, but not hiring someone is completely different than firing someone for a "what if". (I'm not saying the discrimination is OK...it's a topic for another thread.) Fire away if the employee is not getting the job done, coming in late, leaving early, missing days, falling asleep at his desk because of all of those nights of missed sleep, etc... But firing an employee because he has a baby at home, OUTRAGEOUS!

OP, I'm sorry you are experiencing such during this time of joy. Congratulations on the (soon to be) new baby. You are about to experience love on a whole new level.

no joke! I'm a sahm and I think its appauling on both stories firing and hiring someone, not to mention pretty much illegal and total discrimination. People think they can get away with it because the people cant prove it, talk about terrible business ethics (both situations mentioned). I've heard that a lot of companies are using BS reasons to fire people right now though and this sounds like a case of that...there was an article about it on the aol main pages yesterday.

[hippiemommaof4]

Originally Posted by MusicianDad

Both of those...

As for being to distracted to work because you have a new baby. DH certainly isn't too distracted to work because of DS. I'm starting to feel a little antsy about being home all day and I'm looking forward to going back to work. Not because I don't like being a dad, but because I do like to work.

I really cannot support discriminating against someone just because they might get pregnant or are pregnant. Whether you get or keep a job should be based on how well you can do the job, not on some "what if" that may never even happen.

yeah that too, pregnancy discrimination is just as bad in my eyes.