Wow!

[stacey05]

I have been worrying/researching about getting Hib vaccine for my 19 month old who has never been vaccinated. I have stayed up to ridiculous hours researching and reading everything I can. I was feeling good about my decision not to vaccinate with this and then these stories from MN and Pa. came out. So, I once again decided to pray and research.

So, I am pretty sure my dh and I have decided against it for different reasons. But, I still wanted to call our immunizations clinic (we are Air Force) and ask what kind of hib vaccine they carry and how many shots he would need. I know he would only need one, but I wanted to test them and see if they knew! I was blown away by their response! First off...they don't even have any hib vaccine at all and haven't for a long time!!!!! I knew there was a shortage, but I thought it was just for limiting the boosters! NO!!! They don't have ANY!!! They are not giving it to babies, toddlers, nobody! Also, she said when they do get it they will give priority to 2 month olds. I asked why and she said my son would have a better chance of fighting it off than an infant in the high risk age group.

She went on to ask me if I knew what hib vaccine protects against? I told her meningitis and she said NO! She said it protects against epiglottits...ok, yes, but also hib meningitis, right? No! ???? She then told me her 7 month old has not had it and will not get it...she works at immunizations! OMG! She also said that they only give it up to 32 weeks.???!!! The only reason they would give it between 32 weeks and 59 months (5years) is if the child is immunocomprimised. I asked her if I could go off base and get one from a ped. and she said maybe, but Tricare (military insurance) won't pay for it. So, I guess they don't think it is important enough.

I found all this very interesting. I would really like to know the bf'ing status of the recent cases. Also, this was interesting to me:

The Journal of Pediatric Infectious Disease stated "The Perilous Pneumococcus. We have great concern for the increasing prevalence of relatively or absolutely penicillin resistant pneumococci coupled with the increased relative frequency of pneumococcal diseases as a result of universal Haemophilus vaccination." So, hib vaccine is making room for antibiotic resistant pneumococcal to move in??!! I noticed this when I read the VAERS report on meningitis...it seemed a ton of cases of fully vaccinated (with hib/pc) kids were coming down with some kind of meningitis..bacterial and viral! I was looking at the most recent cases and I noticed this before I read the above.

I am thinking that there are risks in life...driving in the car, riding a bike, swimming, etc. I think hib is pretty rare and breastfeeding has shown to be protective. I also think that most people who are exposed to hib do not come down with invasive disease..right? Like probably most of us were exposed and did not get meningitis...also, there are alot of things out there that cause meningitis...it seems like the rate hasn't gone down. I also read the hib vaccine could be associated with juvenile diabetes and food allergies. Thinking out loud here, but I think I am starting to feel more comfortable with not getting this one.

Stacey

[stacey05]

Oh, I forgot to mention that she said NO military base in the country has Hib vaccine right now. They are just telling parents they don't have to get it right now. Hmmm.

[spero]

Just to clarify, there is no such thing as "Hib meningitis". Hib disease is Haemophilus influenzae type b, which can cause bacterial meningitis, pneumonia, and epiglottitis.

[KimberlyD0]

Originally Posted by stacey05

Oh, I forgot to mention that she said NO military base in the country has Hib vaccine right now. They are just telling parents they don't have to get it right now. Hmmm.

I suspect thats why she said no to it being about preventing Menengitis. Thats just a part of it. There are other serious complications that can happen from HiB some that are a lot more common.

I hope they get this shortage sorted out soon.

[Emmeline II]

I did not vax my second for HIB (I did not have the vax as a child) or any vaccine.

"Funny" how the vaccine not being readily available has cooled the chatter from doctors and advertisements about how your child will be shadowed by the grime reaper until you get the vaccine, are no where to be found.

Based on what we've been told about the necessity of HIB in the past, the imm clinic should have said "it's especially important that your child get the HIB vaccine; unfortuately we are out and expect to be for some time, so she's out of luck."

[luminesce]

Originally Posted by stacey05

I asked why and she said my son would have a better chance of fighting it off than an infant in the high risk age group.

This isn't exactly true. It is true, however, that he is statistically less likely to get it than other age groups, or at least that is how it used to be (some of us are now wondering if older kids might start becoming more at risk with the changes in Hib carriage.) It has always been most common in 6-11 months old and the risk starts to drop off at age 2. Also - if he did get the invasive disease, he probably isn't going to be able to fight it off any better than anyone else solely because of his age. Age 3 might be an age where they have a better chance based on age alone but even that is questionable. It probably depends on past exposure to Hib and other bugs that may look like it.

Originally Posted by stacey05

She went on to ask me if I knew what hib vaccine protects against? I told her meningitis and she said NO! She said it protects against epiglottits...ok, yes, but also hib meningitis, right? No! ????

It does protect against meningitis, epiglottitis, sepsis, pneumonia or any other invasive infection caused by Hib (which is specifically the bacteria Haemophilus Influenzae serotype b) but not meningitis caused by any other bacteria or virus, including other serotypes of H. Influenzae.

Originally Posted by stacey05

She then told me her 7 month old has not had it and will not get it...she works at immunizations! OMG! She also said that they only give it up to 32 weeks.???!!! The only reason they would give it between 32 weeks and 59 months (5years) is if the child is immunocomprimised.

This is completely and totally wrong. The vaccines currently licensed are given in either a 2 or 3 dose primary series (at 2 & 4 months) or (2, 4 & 6 months) followed by a booster dose (at 12-15 months). If a child over 15 months hasn't been vaccinated, one dose is needed. There was one other vaccine I think that was licensed for one dose after 18 months but it hasn't been shown to be very effective and I'm not sure it is still being made.

Originally Posted by stacey05

I think hib is pretty rare and breastfeeding has shown to be protective.

Breastfeeding is definitely protective.

Originally Posted by stacey05

I also think that most people who are exposed to hib do not come down with invasive disease..right? Like probably most of us were exposed and did not get meningitis...

That is how it used to be before the vaccine. Hib used to circulate among children. Now, it is pretty much eradicated in kids but a few adults are still carrying it - and maybe starting to carry it more since it isn't so common in kids any more (change of reservoir.) So overall, kids don't get as much exposure to it any more. What this means when a kid (especially an unvaccinated kid) does get exposed to it? No one really knows. Maybe before the vaccine, low level exposure to the same bug helped a natural immunity form and maybe now, when they encounter something an adult is carrying that they've never encountered before, it is more of a risk. Lots of speculation - and the CDC is aware of this issue but I haven't seen any recent studies addressing it. They basically said that Hib was on the rise in Europe because 1) They switched to a combo vax of DTaP-Hib (instead of DTP-Hib) 2) They don't give a booster dose and 3) The change in carriage in the population. My guess is that they are relying on their perceived ability to control 1 & 2 so they aren't studying 3 until rates start to increase. (Of course, they lost control of 2 when Merck recalled the vaccine.) In any case, my guess is that they might look at the effect of carriage in an underfunded retrospective study after the easy solution of recommending a vaccine for adults is implemented. :P

Originally Posted by stacey05

also, there are alot of things out there that cause meningitis...it seems like the rate hasn't gone down.

There are other bugs and viruses that cause meningitis - the rate of invasive disease caused specifically by Hi serotype b HAS declined *a lot* due to the vaccine.

Originally Posted by stacey05

I also read the hib vaccine could be associated with juvenile diabetes and food allergies.

I haven't reviewed all the data on the link to type 1 diabetes but I do know that the initial study was refuted by additional ones. I still need to read them all, see who did them, how well they were done and what the conflicting interests were before I form an opinion on it. As a sufferer of an auto-immune disease, I think the jury is still way out on this issue.

Originally Posted by stacey05

Thinking out loud here, but I think I am starting to feel more comfortable with not getting this one.

It is a tough decision.

[emma1325]

Originally Posted by Emmeline II

I did not vax my second for HIB (I did not have the vax as a child) or any vaccine.

"Funny" how the vaccine not being readily available has cooled the chatter from doctors and advertisements about how your child will be shadowed by the grime reaper until you get the vaccine, are no where to be found.

Based on what we've been told about the necessity of HIB in the past, the imm clinic should have said "it's especially important that your child get the HIB vaccine; unfortuately we are out and expect to be for some time, so she's out of luck."

Well you should know...the availability of the vaccine directly effects the necessity of it!

Honestly, with the way they push vaccines as being crucial for our children's health, we should be able to sue the manufacturer if they run out since they're directly endangering our children by causing them to remain unprotected from a deadly disease.

[Gitti]

Originally Posted by emma1325

Honestly, with the way they push vaccines as being crucial for our children's health, we should be able to sue the manufacturer if they run out since they're directly endangering our children by causing them to remain unprotected from a deadly disease.

To run out of "life-saving vaccines" is highly 'unethical' at the very least.

[emma1325]

Originally Posted by Gitti

To run out of "life-saving vaccines" is highly 'unethical' at the very least.

I mean, seriously.

My state does not have non-medical exemptions. So if my child is unvaccinated for a personal or religious reason, my child is excluded from school, because, everyone knows that an unvaccinated child is a walking, talking death machine.

But if the manufacturer runs out, suddenly everyone's children get a free pass, and the threat to public health is somehow miraculously lifted.

[Gitti]

Originally Posted by emma1325

I mean, seriously.

My state does not have non-medical exemptions. So if my child is unvaccinated for a personal or religious reason, my child is excluded from school, because, everyone knows that an unvaccinated child is a walking, talking death machine.

But if the manufacturer runs out, suddenly everyone's children get a free pass, and the threat to public health is somehow miraculously lifted.

You are right! I did not notice that you live in Mississippi. Sorry to read that (I mean cause of their pro-vax agenda).

[eireann]

Originally Posted by emma1325

I mean, seriously.

My state does not have non-medical exemptions. So if my child is unvaccinated for a personal or religious reason, my child is excluded from school, because, everyone knows that an unvaccinated child is a walking, talking death machine.

But if the manufacturer runs out, suddenly everyone's children get a free pass, and the threat to public health is somehow miraculously lifted.

good point.

[emma1325]

Originally Posted by Gitti

You are right! I did not notice that you live in Mississippi. Sorry to read that (I mean cause of their pro-vax agenda).

Yeah, I'm sorry too. My 5 year old really, really wanted to go to school this year.

But it's ok...because I can offer her much more here through homeschooling than any of the horrible schools in Mississippi can, so she's not missing anything (other than being indoctrinated with MS propaganda.)

[Spectrolite]

Thank you, serenitii, for that post--for that great outline of Hib info

Can you, or someone out there... please give me proof for this statement that's been going around:
"Rates of meningitis (regardless of what it's caused by) have not changed since the Hib vax was introduced."

ie-- Meningitis cases pre-vax era=meningitis cases post-vax era

TIA!