The Circ Stalemate

[serenekitten]

Have you gone through a pregnancy/birth being anti-circ while your partner is pro-circ?

No amount of persuasion has helped sway my DP towards being anti-circ. We've gone 'round in circles about it. He's hung up on the possibility of problems down the road that might result in having to circumcise our son. I don't feel that it's medically necessary, it's impractical ($500 out of pocket that we don't have), having an open wound could expose him to MRSA (which may have taken my dad's leg), and I just emotionally could not deal with putting my baby through it.

He's given up for now because he knows he can't convince me to take his side, and that makes him upset.

And me, I'm just plain upset in general. I didn't want to have to take a side at all. Then I found out I was having a boy.

[LionessMom]

i know how you feel, except the part where we know what we are having. I know DH feels that circ is good b/c he thinks it reduces the risk of some diseases. I say no way. after all the research and reading i have done on here, i will never allow it to be done to my son. i will say no. and i know that will cause contention. I plan on trying to show him a video i have seen linked around here, of a baby actually getting it done. i am hoping that it will change his mind or at least give up, b/c it is not happening.

[Greg B]

Maybe if he reads this it will help:

http://www.doctorsopposingcircumcisi...yStatement.pdf

The discussion should be carefully structured. It sounds like this is not happening. Instead it sounds like he has strong feelings about it, but has not sat down and carefully laid out the issues.

One way would be to first detail the different alternatives:

1) Do not circ
2) circ at a later age
3) circ as an infant

Then lay out the advantages and disadvantages of each. This will take some time to do thoughtfully and comprhensively. Then compare each alternative against one another. See which is better based on the advantages and disavantages. Do not forget to include the issues of human rights, sexual feelings, pain and risk, the ability of your son to make his own decision later, etc.

He may still have strong feelings, but I bet once things are carefully laid out like this, it will be hard to argue for RIC.

[calngavinsmom]

I'm so sorry you are going through this. My dh wasn't too hard to convince, even though he is circed, partially because where we live, it is getting to be pretty rare(about 10% circ rate). Does your dh know that over 80% of the worlds population does NOT circumcise and that if properly cared for, the foreskin is in large part problem free?

In this link to the Canadian Pediatric Society's circ page, circ is explained as a purely social, cosmetic procedure(rather than medical), and further outlines that circing has more problems than not.

http://www.caringforkids.cps.ca/preg...rcumcision.htm

Good luck to you and your unborn son. I hope your partner comes around and if not, you are still the one who has the final say in the matter.

Take care,
Tara

[LionessMom]

i dont think my DH even thinks about it. i just told him that if we have a boy that the research says that circ has no benefits etc. he says "why do you have to read all that crap online?" as if there is something wrong with wanting to make the righht decision for my children. i will jsut have my super cool doc read the DOC paper and then tell DH she reccomends against and all the bad things associated with it and there is no good to come of it. maybe he will listen to her.

either way. my foot is down. my boy will not be circ'ed. he will be intact.

[Fyrestorm]

Originally Posted by serenekitten

He's hung up on the possibility of problems down the road that might result in having to circumcise our son.

More boys have to have corrective surgery to correct a botched circumcision and adhesions and skin bridges, than ever need to be circumcised later for a medical reason (gangrene, cancer, frostbite and severe trauma being the only legit reasons for 'having' to do it.)

There is also the unreported issue of meatal stenosis that is a complication of circumcision that can appear MUCH later in life (my DH is dealing with this and has to have corrective surgery). MS only occurs in cut men.

[serenekitten]

Originally Posted by LionessMom

I plan on trying to show him a video i have seen linked around here, of a baby actually getting it done. i am hoping that it will change his mind or at least give up, b/c it is not happening.

I showed him a video that contained a couple of clips of actual circumcisions. His reply was that, yes, it hurts and he feels sorry for the baby but the baby is not aware enough of the world to know what it is and won't remember it.

Meanwhile, I sat cringing and curled up in my chair while wanting to reach through the computer screen to protect the babies.

Originally Posted by Greg B

The discussion should be carefully structured.

It came on as a spur of the moment discussion this evening, not as carefully structured as I would have liked. This won't be the last we speak of the issue -- I want to include my midwife in the discussion to see what insight she has. Unfortunately, we're both so stubbornly stuck on opposite sides of the issue that it's going to be difficult to come to an agreement.

Originally Posted by calngavinsmom

Does your dh know that over 80% of the worlds population does NOT circumcise and that if properly cared for, the foreskin is in large part problem free?

I'm not sure that he realizes that. And when we tried to discuss hygiene, he brought up the fact that some of the cleanest women he knows have frequent yeast infections. I was so flabbergasted that he threw such a thing out that I couldn't come up with an effective argument against it.

Originally Posted by LionessMom

he says "why do you have to read all that crap online?" as if there is something wrong with wanting to make the righht decision for my children.

Ugh. I've been doing research on different things since my first BFP in November. I wish you good luck with your DH. I don't want to have to play the "Mommy card," and it's very difficult for me to put my foot down or go against my DP about anything.

Originally Posted by Fyrestorm

More boys have to have corrective surgery to correct a botched circumcision and adhesions and skin bridges, than ever need to be circumcised later for a medical reason (gangrene, cancer, frostbite and severe trauma being the only legit reasons for 'having' to do it.)

There is also the unreported issue of meatal stenosis that is a complication of circumcision that can appear MUCH later in life (my DH is dealing with this and has to have corrective surgery). MS only occurs in cut men.

Thanks for pointing these out. I'll try to remember them the next time we talk about it.

[Fyrestorm]

Originally Posted by serenekitten

\he brought up the fact that some of the cleanest women he knows have frequent yeast infections. \

Chances are that this woman cleans too much and has disrupted the natural flora thus causing yeast to take hold.

[robertandenith]

Please, PLEASE, watch yourself this video AND show it to HIM
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...65256830319025

This is the new 20 min DVD - Circumcision Decision. Featuring Dr Dean Edell.

Does not only shows a circ but also several doctors, activists and a lawyer talks about it. Very informative.

[MCatLvrMom2A&X]

Since you are the only one in the hospital that can concent in most states just dont sign.

It will be great if you can convice him that circ is a horrific thing but sometimes that isnt possible so you just have to be the mama bear and say no it isnt happening end of story.

[*Erin*]

Originally Posted by MCatLvrMom2A&X

Since you are the only one in the hospital that can concent in most states just dont sign.

It will be great if you can convice him that circ is a horrific thing but sometimes that isnt possible so you just have to be the mama bear and say no it isnt happening end of story.

yep that.
hopefully, he'll get it before it comes to you having to refuse in the hospital though. good luck, mama.

[KBecks]

Your DP doesn't have to be anti-circ, he just needs to be OK with an intact son. It may be easier to say intact is OK for him than to deal with his emotions about circ.

[A&A]

Here are two links for YOU to read, only. Do NOT show these to your dh:

http://www.udonet.com/circumcision/v...ty_of_men.html

http://www.noharmm.org/feminist.htm

[Getz]

Originally Posted by MCatLvrMom2A&X

Since you are the only one in the hospital that can concent in most states just dont sign.

It will be great if you can convice him that circ is a horrific thing but sometimes that isnt possible so you just have to be the mama bear and say no it isnt happening end of story.

That's what I had to do. Nothing would convince my DH was circumcision was not an option for our son. So I had to say over my dead body. He is still convince circumcision is the right choice. My son is intact so that is all that matters to me at the end of the day.

[yarngoddess]

I would rather play the Mommy Rulz card, and have my DH/DP mad at me than be RESPONSIBLE for my son's circ. I AM responsible for my son's circ, and he does have issues with it- I accept that. That was ME being uneducated. HOWEVER my littlest son is INTACT for a reaon, I learned and did better. YOU know better- could YOU live with the ramifications of something going really wrong? Besides the actual circ just plain being wrong. I hope you come to a comfortable decision, and your DP learns to accept it. And REALLY- how often is he going to see his son's penis? How often does he see his own fathers????? As long as he loves his son, it won't matter what his penis loooks like

[latinalonestar]

The only reason your son would ever need a medical circumcision would be in the case of frostbite, malignancy, gangrene, or serious trauma. THAT IS IT! This should put your partner at ease.

The fear of "foreskin problems" is primarily due to the fact that US doctors know very little about the development of the intact boy. Doctors will ignorantly recommend circ when either 1) there is a less invasive treatment or 2) b/c the doctor does not recognize the normal development of the intact boy.

Read through these:
http://www.nocirc.org/publish/pamphlet7.html

http://www.mothering.com/articles/ne...uncircson.html

http://www.doctorsopposingcircumcisi...kinleaflet.pdf

Foreskin actually prevents more problems than it could possibly cause.

[jessjgh1]

((Hugs momma to be)) I wish I had more time to reply.... will be hoping for a happier update... please keep coming with questions and for support as you make way through your birth journey.

A peaceful birth is both a birth right and a mother's gift to her child. Maybe your partner will realize how much this will damage what should be a beautiful time for all of you.

Jessica

[latinalonestar]

Originally Posted by serenekitten

I

I'm not sure that he realizes that. And when we tried to discuss hygiene, he brought up the fact that some of the cleanest women he knows have frequent yeast infections. I was so flabbergasted that he threw such a thing out that I couldn't come up with an effective argument against it.

Actually yeast infections in men, especially circumcised men, are asymptomatic. This means they can pass the yeast infection to their partner without even knowing that they have one. Intact men are NOT any more likely to get a yeast infection than a circumcised men. This is the same with STDs, they are generally asymptomatic too. This is probably why the US has the highest rate of STD transmission of any country. Men don't get tested b/c they don't know they have anything since they show no symptoms.

[Claire and Boys]

The chance of needing a circumcision in Scandinavia, where routine circ is not performed and Drs are used to intact penises, is 1 in 16,000. Whereas around 1 in 100 circs will need a later surgical revision.

It doesn't make any sense - the whole performing surgery to avoid later surgery. What other body parts would he have removed to prevent later problems? You know, remove the appendix while they're at it. It's more likely he will need that out (around 7% of people need their appendix removed at some point in their life)

[serenekitten]

Originally Posted by robertandenith

Please, PLEASE, watch yourself this video AND show it to HIM
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...65256830319025

This is the new 20 min DVD - Circumcision Decision. Featuring Dr Dean Edell

Yep, I watched that, but didn't get a chance to show DP. I'm not sure he'd take it seriously where it has a bias, but it's worth a shot. I'll try again, later.

Originally Posted by MCatLvrMom2A&X

It will be great if you can convice him that circ is a horrific thing but sometimes that isnt possible so you just have to be the mama bear and say no it isnt happening end of story.

Yeah. It's gonna be tough.

Originally Posted by *Erin*

yep that.
hopefully, he'll get it before it comes to you having to refuse in the hospital though. good luck, mama.

Thanks, I'll need it. (Good thing we found out the gender and went through this now, right? )

Originally Posted by KBecks

Your DP doesn't have to be anti-circ, he just needs to be OK with an intact son. It may be easier to say intact is OK for him than to deal with his emotions about circ.

Good point. I'll have to try phrasing it like that and see what he thinks.

Originally Posted by A&A

Here are two links for YOU to read, only. Do NOT show these to your dh:

http://www.udonet.com/circumcision/v...ty_of_men.html

http://www.noharmm.org/feminist.htm

Thanks. They were an interesting read. The story from the Jewish woman who left her son intact made me a little weepy (that just might be the hormones talking).

Originally Posted by Getz

That's what I had to do. Nothing would convince my DH was circumcision was not an option for our son. So I had to say over my dead body. He is still convince circumcision is the right choice. My son is intact so that is all that matters to me at the end of the day.

It's good to know that I might not be the only one, when all is said and done. I'm sorry your DH still feels that way, but you're right, having an intact son is all that matters.

Originally Posted by yarngoddess

I would rather play the Mommy Rulz card, and have my DH/DP mad at me than be RESPONSIBLE for my son's circ. I AM responsible for my son's circ, and he does have issues with it- I accept that. That was ME being uneducated. HOWEVER my littlest son is INTACT for a reaon, I learned and did better. YOU know better- could YOU live with the ramifications of something going really wrong? Besides the actual circ just plain being wrong. I hope you come to a comfortable decision, and your DP learns to accept it. And REALLY- how often is he going to see his son's penis? How often does he see his own fathers????? As long as he loves his son, it won't matter what his penis loooks like

You know, I like to think DP is going to be more focused on his face than what's below the belt once the baby is born.

Originally Posted by latinalonestar

The only reason your son would ever need a medical circumcision would be in the case of frostbite, malignancy, gangrene, or serious trauma. THAT IS IT! This should put your partner at ease.

I keep forgetting that, and it could have been a real help in our discussion. I'll remember for next time.

Originally Posted by jessjgh1

((Hugs momma to be)) I wish I had more time to reply.... will be hoping for a happier update... please keep coming with questions and for support as you make way through your birth journey

s Thanks, I hope I have a happier update sometime soon.

Originally Posted by latinalonestar

Actually yeast infections in men, especially circumcised men, are asymptomatic. This means they can pass the yeast infection to their partner without even knowing that they have one. Intact men are NOT any more likely to get a yeast infection than a circumcised men. This is the same with STDs, they are generally asymptomatic too. This is probably why the US has the highest rate of STD transmission of any country. Men don't get tested b/c they don't know they have anything since they show no symptoms.

Wow. I really didn't realize it, but it makes sense. Thanks!

Originally Posted by Claire and Boys

The chance of needing a circumcision in Scandinavia, where routine circ is not performed and Drs are used to intact penises, is 1 in 16,000. Whereas around 1 in 100 circs will need a later surgical revision.

It doesn't make any sense - the whole performing surgery to avoid later surgery. What other body parts would he have removed to prevent later problems? You know, remove the appendix while they're at it. It's more likely he will need that out (around 7% of people need their appendix removed at some point in their life)

Thank you for that statistic. *adds it to her file of stuff to bring up later* And you're right -- my dad had to have his leg amputated in September, after three years of fighting to keep it intact. Should it have been cut off when he was a few hours/days old?