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The Circ Stalemate - Page 2

post #21 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fyrestorm View Post
Chances are that this woman cleans too much and has disrupted the natural flora thus causing yeast to take hold.
Yeah to the above plus the fact that circ does NOT protect from infections, including yeast.
post #22 of 49
Quote:
He's given up for now because he knows he can't convince me to take his side, and that makes him upset.

And me, I'm just plain upset in general. I didn't want to have to take a side at all. Then I found out I was having a boy.
WELL, that makes one vote for, and one vote against, and the other family member who gets a vote is

YOUR SON.
post #23 of 49
Also, a good position if there isn't an agreement is to go with the default.

Should we buy a new house? If you say yes and he says no...you stay where you are.

Should we paint the kitchen pink? he says no, you say yes...you either leave it like it is, or go with something neutral.

Should we vaccinate? You say yes, he says no, the default is leave him as nature intended.

Should we have an unnecessary operation preformed on our son? You say np, he says yes...the default is to not do anything.
post #24 of 49
Poor you! I didn't have to go through this (both DH and I agreed fro the beginning that cricumcision on a healthy baby was no more than cosmetic surgery - a social custom that we did not feel obligated to perpatuate).

Your son will be born with a foreskin, and he will be perfectly normal and healthy that way.

Your son will also be born with little toes. If your DH felt strongly about cutting off your son's pinky toes at birth, he would have to come up with a pretty good reason to do it, wouldn't he? Unfortunately, in our society infant circumcision is so commonplace that many people DO have it done' without even thinking about it - without realizing that it is an operation ("it's just a snip" - No Way!)

I suggest two alternatives: first, unless your DH comes up with a valid medical reason to circumcise (from a legitimate source, like a major medical organization - there are a lot of flashy pro-circumcision web sites out there), you leave your baby the way he was born. I promise you that he will NOT find a medical organization that recommends infant circumcision, but perhaps doing the research himself will help to convince him.

Second, perhaps you can compromise - assure your DH that if your son DOES develop a problem with his foreskin that cannot be treated with less invasive means, you will agree to circumcision as treatment. Since amputation is rarely the first course of treatment for a medical condition, the chances of this are very, very slim.

Meanwhile, keep using the phrase "cosmetic surgery".

And it might not hurt to remind your DH, whom you love very much, that this isn't about HIM, and what his penis looks like - it's about your son, and the kind of penis he's born with.

Best wishes to you, and keep us updated.
post #25 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron_Low View Post
WELL, that makes one vote for, and one vote against, and the other family member who gets a vote is

YOUR SON.
Thank you for saying this, Ron!

As I was reading through this thread, I kept thinking "OK, so it's a tie. There's still one more vote to be made - the son's."
post #26 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by serenekitten View Post
And when we tried to discuss hygiene, he brought up the fact that some of the cleanest women he knows have frequent yeast infections. I was so flabbergasted that he threw such a thing out that I couldn't come up with an effective argument against it.
Would he slice off part of a daughter to possibly avoid future yeast infections? Of course not. Why would it be any different for a son?

(Also, those women may have partners with asymptomatic yeast infections. And so, they keep getting re-infected, even after treatment. Unless both partners are treated at the same time, yeast can just keep getting passed between them.)
post #27 of 49
My DH was anti-circ before we even met, he watched the Penn and Teller thing on his own one night, since it was on TV. So I am glad I didn't have to make the argument.

Well, since being intact is the default, have him research it and find reputable information that supports it. When he brings it, you have then a chance for rebuttal, which will be easy.

He will likely still be unchanged in his opinion, b/c for most men, it is an emotional choice. It takes a lot for a man (assuming he is circed) to go against it b/c in a way, it's implying his own penis is less than perfect and that is a hard pill to swallow. My DH never knew the difference, he didn't even know what circing was til the Penn and Teller show. Afterwards, he saw so much of the show's discussed cons in his own penis and was determined to not short change any son of his.

If worst comes to worst, it is the mother that has to sign it off, so he has no say. None of us want it to come to that though, as parents. But that at least is there as a safeguard.

I have also known some women to "bargain" with their DH on it. One friend gave her DH naming rights so they didn't have to circ. He is glad they didn't now.
post #28 of 49
Oh, one more thing. My uncle wasn't circed, and my grandparents were given terrible advice about foreskin care (to force it back at each change, applying vaseline, cleansing it with alcohol after poos, etc. Needless to say, he got major scarring and thus infections for his whole life. He's always complained and wished he was circed. Never mind that his on father and all 4 of his brothers were intact and never had a problem. He refuses to believe it was b/c they treated it wrongly, not knowing any better. So, when he ended up getting bit on his foreskin by a brown recluse, which turned into infection, and was so bad and invasive, it required circing, he was telling me a few days later:

"See, you really should circ Oscar. Mom and dad could have saved me a lot of trouble."

I replied "Um, well, if you hadn't had your foreskin, the bite would have been on your penis, and that would have been removed instead."

He goes, well...I guess. Never said another word about it.

I know that is a rare case, getting bit by a spider on your penis, but it does happen and for reasons such as that is one of the many functions of the foreskin- to protect the glans. Why lose that protection needlessly?
post #29 of 49
I just put my foot down with my dh and he eventually came around on his own. I figured it was his issue to work out, since it was more about his circumcision than the baby's.

That is why your dh is obsessing about "needing" it done later in life - he is subconsciously in pain for his own circumcision, yet still needs to think it was necessary, so he is transferring his own pain onto the baby. Therefore the baby will eventually "need" it done, but it will be painful. Understand?

This is what I say, and there is no arguing it. You will only have stewardship of the penis for 3 years. For the next 80 years, your son will be the one living with it, peeing out of it, and having sex with it. Therefore all permanent decisions about it should belong to him. If he "needs" to be circumcised as an adult (and it is more likely he will need a mastectomy for breast cancer), he can make the decision himself after exhausting all treatment options, and he will get adequate pain relief during and after. There is nothing emergent about his baby foreskin and so it can just be left alone.

After that, it is your dh's responsibility to work out his own issues. The more you try to make it easy on him, the less responsibility he has to take for himself.
post #30 of 49
Tell him, ok!

As long as you get to cut off your daughters breasts at birth, just in case she gets breast cancer, which is much more prevalent than any of the REAL reasons to circumcise.

Don't consent. Attach a sign to your son in the hospital if you have to.
post #31 of 49
Surgery is for sick people, not healthy ones.
post #32 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by KBecks View Post
Your DP doesn't have to be anti-circ, he just needs to be OK with an intact son. It may be easier to say intact is OK for him than to deal with his emotions about circ.
:

i was sorely disappointed when my (circed) dh didn't get as angry and anti-circ as i did when i presented the research to him, but i realized that while that would have been nice, all i really needed was for him to not pursue circ'ing our children.

i would drop it for now, with the intention of just not consenting when the time comes. your partner knows how you feel about it now, and really, the burden of proof for wanting to perform cosmetic surgery on your child rests on him. let him tell you why he believes it should be done if he brings up the subject again, and refute, refute, refute, but i would not broach the subject again, other than to let him know that circumcising your child is not going to happen, full stop.

christina
post #33 of 49
DH told me that i dont get to have an opinion b/c i dont have a penis. i told him that means he doesnt get to have an opnion b/c he doesnt have a foreskin. i was kinda mad at that point.
post #34 of 49
I'm sorry you're dealing with this. DH and I were in the same boat as soon as we found out we were/are having a boy, and we JUST came to an agreement last weekend (with 3 weeks until our due date. Phew!)

We mostly avoided the topic for the majority of those 17 weeks. The 2-3 times we tried to talk about it ended with me in tears and it wasn't getting us anywhere. Last weekend, we attended an information/discussion session at our birth center, and at the end the leader of the discussion presented a very unbiased and informative slide show about circumcision (complete with graphic photos - ick). Up until that point, I hadn't put my foot down about it, I just quietly hoped that he would eventually come around; but when I saw those pictures, I was ready to say HELL NO. Fortunately, I didn't have to. As soon as we got in the car to go home, DH said that we didn't have to maim our child if I didn't want to, and admitted that there was no solid medical reason, and get this - his own stubbornness was not a good enough reason. I was floored.

In short, there is hope. If your doctor/midwife is competent and understanding of the fact that there is no legitimate reason to circ, maybe you could ask him/her to sit down with you and your DP and try to knock some sense into him.

If all else fails, I agree with the others - just say no.





By the way, hi everyone! I'm a long-time lurker, first-time poster to the forums here. :
post #35 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by bezark View Post

By the way, hi everyone! I'm a long-time lurker, first-time poster to the forums here. :
Welcome to the board Bezark! What a lucky boy, : what a great DH! I hope now that you've come out of hiding you'll participate. So what state are you in, I am courious where the good info is being presented.
post #36 of 49
Thanks! I don't want to hijack the thread, but we're from NJ, and the good information came from The Birth Center in Wilmington, DE. There've been quite a few discussions about them elsewhere on the boards, and they really are fantastic.
post #37 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by Galatea View Post
I just put my foot down with my dh and he eventually came around on his own. I figured it was his issue to work out, since it was more about his circumcision than the baby's.

That is why your dh is obsessing about "needing" it done later in life - he is subconsciously in pain for his own circumcision, yet still needs to think it was necessary, so he is transferring his own pain onto the baby. Therefore the baby will eventually "need" it done, but it will be painful. Understand?

This is what I say, and there is no arguing it. You will only have stewardship of the penis for 3 years. For the next 80 years, your son will be the one living with it, peeing out of it, and having sex with it. Therefore all permanent decisions about it should belong to him. If he "needs" to be circumcised as an adult (and it is more likely he will need a mastectomy for breast cancer), he can make the decision himself after exhausting all treatment options, and he will get adequate pain relief during and after. There is nothing emergent about his baby foreskin and so it can just be left alone.

After that, it is your dh's responsibility to work out his own issues. The more you try to make it easy on him, the less responsibility he has to take for himself.
This is exactly right to my ears. When it comes to amputating part of someone else's body, I just don't think that's my decision to make. It is serious surgery, but it's cosmetic. Your baby cannot consent. Why not tell your husband that the only thing you're agreeing to is not to cut off your baby's foreskin; when your son is old enough to understand and consent, he can make decisions about these things. For me, it is 100% about consent. And in this case, there is none. So like PPs have mentioned, I would go with the "do the least amount of harm" approach. Rather than making a permanent decision for your adult son involving a cosmetic amputation, you're protecting that decision for him to make for himself later in life.
post #38 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by Galatea View Post
I just put my foot down with my dh and he eventually came around on his own. I figured it was his issue to work out, since it was more about his circumcision than the baby's.

You will only have stewardship of the penis for 3 years. For the next 80 years, your son will be the one living with it, peeing out of it, and having sex with it. Therefore all permanent decisions about it should belong to him.


After that, it is your dh's responsibility to work out his own issues. The more you try to make it easy on him, the less responsibility he has to take for himself.
(emphasis mine)

That was really well said/written! I'm floored. Thank you.
post #39 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by To-Fu View Post
This is exactly right to my ears. When it comes to amputating part of someone else's body, I just don't think that's my decision to make. It is serious surgery, but it's cosmetic. Your baby cannot consent. Why not tell your husband that the only thing you're agreeing to is not to cut off your baby's foreskin; when your son is old enough to understand and consent, he can make decisions about these things. For me, it is 100% about consent. And in this case, there is none. So like PPs have mentioned, I would go with the "do the least amount of harm" approach. Rather than making a permanent decision for your adult son involving a cosmetic amputation, you're protecting that decision for him to make for himself later in life.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fruitful womb View Post
(emphasis mine)

That was really well said/written! I'm floored. Thank you.
Thank you both. :
post #40 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by To-Fu View Post
This is exactly right to my ears. When it comes to amputating part of someone else's body, I just don't think that's my decision to make. It is serious surgery, but it's cosmetic. Your baby cannot consent. Why not tell your husband that the only thing you're agreeing to is not to cut off your baby's foreskin; when your son is old enough to understand and consent, he can make decisions about these things. For me, it is 100% about consent. And in this case, there is none. So like PPs have mentioned, I would go with the "do the least amount of harm" approach. Rather than making a permanent decision for your adult son involving a cosmetic amputation, you're protecting that decision for him to make for himself later in life.
I really like this post!
If my adult sons decide that I made a big mistake by keeping them intact, and decide to get circ'ed now, then that is their decision to make (although I would try to talk them out of it). I'm so glad that I left the decision up to them. I do know that the younger one is quite happy he's intact!
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