Happy Spring!! Chat thread: March 21 - 27 - Page 5

[lil_miss_understood]

Originally Posted by TanyaLopez

Jacqueline--soil varies a lot in iodine content, and plants that grow in some areas can be high, and I think certain types of plants (probably not ones we eat anymore, for the most part) are especially high. Do I know the kinds? No, I don't have concrete helpful info, just a general idea to read for.

That's occurred to me as well. I know that bulrush roots (and shoots and pollen) were also traditional foods, along with wild rice and some other marsh-y plants. Interestingly, wild rice and bulrush roots were also standard additions to fish soup...

[Theloose]

Originally Posted by dannic

My lunulas are absent on all but my thumbnails. The article said to suspect anemia or malnutrition. I've only had temporary low iron after DS and DD2, but with all that I went through with my last pregnancy, I'll just bet I've been malnourished.
So here's a question: Say I have generations of poor eating on both sides, but that up until pregnancy I always had robust health, ate quite well all my life (compared to sad), can I really expect to overcome that in one generation? Or logically, won't it take longer to undo the damage done? I have taken a generational approach to this... I pass on healthy eating habits, ect to my children, who do the same, who do the same....
Say for childbearing--I have to find balance between pregnancy, breastfeeding, and then a hiatus before the next go round, right? I'm not even sure what I'm trying to say--does this make any sense at all? (Thoughts to keyboard function is just not working for me here!)

Lunulas - Mine are missing, too, though now I have them on my thumbs. Dh's were huge, though now they're looking more normal. When I read up on it before, the explanation I liked the best was that it had to do with how much oxygen can get to your fingertips. So many factors would affect it, including anemia, blood pressure, other nutrition, etc. I liked that explanation because I don't think my circulation's great, my fingers and toes are always cold, and dh is a heater.

Improving nutrition - I'm thinking it would probably take a while if you were stuck with just food, but this is where supplements can come in really handy to make up the difference. I think the only way it would take multiple generations is through epigenetics, or else the process of figuring it out taking so long that things weren't as ideal as we'd hoped before getting pg again.

I don't know what's reasonable to expect, but I do know that as soon as I feel like I've got this stuff figured out and my nutrients are decent, it's time for us to ttc. We were originally planning on kids 2 years apart, but now there'll be a minimum of 3. My challenge for myself was to make sure the next kid had the best chance possible at not having allergies.

[WuWei]

Originally Posted by kjbrown92

Got a good recipe that makes the fish broth more palatable? Is any fish better than any other fish?

I've been adding a teaspoon of my Master Tonic to my bone broths when I reheat it. And it is lovely, zesty, and energizing! I figure I'll do the same with fish stock.

Pat

[lil_miss_understood]

Master Tonic?

[WuWei]

Originally Posted by JacquelineR

Master Tonic?

she naively asked...


(as they all shake their heads and say 'there she goes again about the Master Tonic' )

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...t=master+tonic


Pat


P.S. Happy Birthday!

[lil_miss_understood]

Originally Posted by WuWei

she naively asked...
(as they all shake their heads and say 'there she goes again about the Master Tonic' )
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...t=master+tonic

Pat
P.S. Happy Birthday!

Thank you and thank you!
I actually heard of something similar (if not the same) that a friend of mine used to use for colds, but never made it myself. I'll have to look into it further (I'm obsessed with other things atm ).

[momofmine]

Oh, Pat, you are too funny! What would we do without you reminding us about this stuff all the time though! I had forgotten about the Master Tonic even though I just read that thread. Thank you!

[ellasmama2007]

Originally Posted by changingseasons

eta: Really, I don't feel comfortable supping anything directly with DD. I take the supps and then hope that they get into my milk... so far, so good. But I don't want to supp copper myself unless I find that my copper is low too (DD's was a little, but nothing major.) And since the hair test is useless when you're lactating, I guess I will have to wait to find out what my levels are. (According to the Cutler book, blood levels are completely irrelevant for copper.)

i feel like that too with supping dd, im trying to work up some nerve to at least sup her vit c and zinc.
ummm, the hair test is useless if you're lactating? i didnt know this, when did this come about?

Originally Posted by JacquelineR

Ellasmama,
Have you tried calcium bentonite (Pascalite clay) for reducing Ella's reactions? Did it work?

i ordered it but it wont be arriving until dd gets her driver's license. ive just been soakin her little tushy in epsoms every day hoping that will help.

HAPPY BDAY, MAMA!!!!!: tell dh to get you a fryin pan before you smack him upside his head with that little one. (jk, JR's dh)

Originally Posted by New Mama

Have you guys read "Healing the New Childhood Epidemics: Autism, ADHD, Asthma, and Allergies" by Kenneth Bock, M.D.? I'm only a little bit into it, but he talks about methylation and sulfation and glutathione. It's really interesting, and makes me wonder how any doctor can say there's no connection with the gut or what we eat to behavior.

i read that book like 9 or so months ago, its so good. i sobbed over some of those stories - it really pushed me to get a dan! doc.

Originally Posted by WuWei

Margo, the water has sulfate which opens detox pathways. so, you are apt to have more reaction visible as she is clearing toxins, I believe. It "empties" the bucket of allergens.

Yes, CS needs a bee farm!! :


Pat

oh, maybe that's it then, i thought i was losing my marbles!

Originally Posted by kortner

:HAPPY BIRTHDAY JACQUELINE!!!:

[lil_miss_understood]

Originally Posted by ellasmama2007

HAPPY BDAY, MAMA!!!!!: tell dh to get you a fryin pan before you smack him upside his head with that little one. (jk, JR's dh)

He actually hates the little frying pan too. He just doesn't get why I want the $200 frying pan, thinks that the $40 pan will be just as good. Which it's not a BAD pan (unlike the other pans he's put me off with to this point)... I guess I'm just being stubborn.

[momofmine]

Originally Posted by neveryoumindthere

So, I got the D-mannose powder. I'm doing 1 tsp every couple hrs, plus the VitC, dandelion root tea, cranberry extract (1000+ mg) and probiotics 3x a day
Within a couple hours pink pee is virtually gone
tomorrow morning i'll re-evaluate
I will keep u posted.

How are you doing today?

Originally Posted by changingseasons

And since the hair test is useless when you're lactating, I guess I will have to wait to find out what my levels are. (According to the Cutler book, blood levels are completely irrelevant for copper.)

Really? What does the Cutler book say is the best test for copper? That other link said that hair testing was not accurate b/c of external contamination (what does that even mean??) and that a 24 hour urine test or serum test was the best means of testing.

I started a copper thread here because it seems like zinc is one of the basic things for many of the pathways, and copper sounds like it is one of the main things that blocks zinc, so...seems like copper might be a basic one to examine.

[momofmine]

I hope you get your pan!

Originally Posted by JacquelineR

He actually hates the little frying pan too. He just doesn't get why I want the $200 frying pan, thinks that the $40 pan will be just as good. Which it's not a BAD pan (unlike the other pans he's put me off with to this point)... I guess I'm just being stubborn.

[Theloose]

Originally Posted by JacquelineR

He actually hates the little frying pan too. He just doesn't get why I want the $200 frying pan, thinks that the $40 pan will be just as good. Which it's not a BAD pan (unlike the other pans he's put me off with to this point)... I guess I'm just being stubborn.

Would it be worth getting a big cast iron pan in the meantime? Or would that count against you?

[lil_miss_understood]

Originally Posted by whoMe

Would it be worth getting a big cast iron pan in the meantime? Or would that count against you?

It would count against me and DH also doesn't get the whole cross contamination issue... which would be of grave concern with a porous material like cast iron.

[changingseasons]

Originally Posted by ellasmama2007

i feel like that too with supping dd, im trying to work up some nerve to at least sup her vit c and zinc.
ummm, the hair test is useless if you're lactating? i didnt know this, when did this come about?

I just started giving DD some C directly (mixed with honey), and I think it's really helping. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that the Allerg-C will work for you guys!

Yeah, I wish I would have known about the hair test before ordering it for myself. The Cutler book says that you can't use the counting rules for determining metal toxicity if you're lactating. Mine ended up being an "all low" presentation (which would mean metal toxicity if I wasn't lactating.) Or at least that's what I'm guessing since almost every mineral showed on the low side on my test. But who knows what they would look like if I wasn't lactating. He shows an example in the book of 2 tests from the same woman, once while she was lactating and once after she was done, and they are completely different. Some numbers went up, some went down. :

Originally Posted by momofmine

Really? What does the Cutler book say is the best test for copper? That other link said that hair testing was not accurate b/c of external contamination (what does that even mean??) and that a 24 hour urine test or serum test was the best means of testing.

I started a copper thread here because it seems like zinc is one of the basic things for many of the pathways, and copper sounds like it is one of the main things that blocks zinc, so...seems like copper might be a basic one to examine.

I never read that other link, but the Cutler book says that hair tests are "believed to accurately reflect body inventory when mineral transport is normal." The washing of hair will remove external contaminants, like copper from swimming pool water, but won't affect the copper level reflecting what is actually stored in the body. He says that blood tests are no good, and won't show high levels until you reach extreme toxicity. Oh- I just found it- here's the paragraph:

Hair copper is fairly reliable as an indicator of body copper levels but blood copper is irrelevant. Urine copper levels are also of little meaning and can only be considered significant if they are vastly elevated when someone collects a time (e.g. 24 hour) urine specimen and is not taking any sort of chelating or copper mobilizing agents.

But then a couple paragraphs before that, he says that it may make sense to check urine or red blood cell copper if the hair test shows red-level low (meaning high body levels), so I'm a little confused about that.

[changingseasons]

Originally Posted by JacquelineR

It would count against me and DH also doesn't get the whole cross contamination issue... which would be of grave concern with a porous material like cast iron.

DP really doesn't either... ... which is why we have 3 cast irons. 2 for me to use, and 1 for him.

[changingseasons]

Oh, here I go serial posting... somebody stop me!

OMG- why oh why have I never tried ginger in my water kefir before this weekend? It is SOOOOOO yummy!! :

[momofmine]

Thank you for looking that up about copper, cs. That does sound like it might be contradictory though. Who knows!

[tanyalynn]

Momofmine, from another thread (but not wanting to derail it), I wanted to ask.... I hadn't realized y'all had been on SCD for 3 years. How do you feel about it then vs now vs forever vs healing vs what foods we can eventually eat?

Right now, I'm starting to move us paleo-ish (no grain/legume/dairy, not sure on eggs, all the meats and veggies and fruits, for now), and I'm contemplating SCD or GAPS later this year, maybe in the fall. And although I feel like this is the right direction (it's mostly for DH, though I think we'll all benefit), I'm not sure if/how to know when we're done, what expectations to have, how long would something more specific like SCD/GAPS take. So since you've got so much experience with it, I wanted to hear your thoughts.

Thanks!

[momofmine]

Originally Posted by TanyaLopez

Momofmine, from another thread (but not wanting to derail it), I wanted to ask.... I hadn't realized y'all had been on SCD for 3 years. How do you feel about it then vs now vs forever vs healing vs what foods we can eventually eat?

Right now, I'm starting to move us paleo-ish (no grain/legume/dairy, not sure on eggs, all the meats and veggies and fruits, for now), and I'm contemplating SCD or GAPS later this year, maybe in the fall. And although I feel like this is the right direction (it's mostly for DH, though I think we'll all benefit), I'm not sure if/how to know when we're done, what expectations to have, how long would something more specific like SCD/GAPS take. So since you've got so much experience with it, I wanted to hear your thoughts.

Thanks!

Well, this could get long, but, I'll go ahead! It's funny because just yesterday I was reading the GAPS book (I've never actually read the thing straight through) and you came to my mind. For some reason I just thought to myself, Tanya should read this book.

Anyway, I was a vegetarian for several years before I became pregnant with DS1. Ate very high carb. Of course I thought I was eating healthy because I ate all these wonderful whole grains, ha ha. Sometime during my pregnancy I started to crave meat, and so I started eating meat at that point, but only super clean, free-range, abx-free, everything-free meat. But I still ate a lot of carbs and grains.

Then in labor I had one IM shot of abx for GBS. (I was in a birth center, so thankfully no IV abx or anything.) But, I still think it upset the balance of things for DS. I probably already had gut dysbiosis from lots of abx I took as a teen for strep, years of birth control pills, and years of SAD eating. (Although I did have intestinal symptoms, I had other symptoms pointing toward that.) He had some thrush/colic issues. But I swabbed his mouth and my nipples with acidophilus powder for the thrush, and eliminated dairy, and things improved some. However, he was still a higher-need baby and had very erratic sleeping, never slept more than a couple hours at a time, often had to sleep latched on, etc. Then around 9 months he started having loose bowel movements that became looser and looser. It got to the point that it would run out of his diaper and down his leg within seconds. The family doc would say, oh, it's nothing. : However, the sleep issues continued, and he would wake up screaming, arching his back and stiffening his legs. His symptoms seemed to me to be similar to celiac, though he had never eaten gluten himself yet, and the doctors said "gluten doesn't pass through bm." I actually called Dr. Sears' wife Martha on the phone (she was amazing and so sweet) and she said, oh yes it can, and helped me figure out the whole elimination diet thing. I don't remember in what order I did the elimination diet, but I do remember that I first took out gluten and sugar, and it was an overnight difference. He slept a larger chunk for the first time in his life, stools firmed up a bit, etc. Then after about two weeks, I tried eating gluten again, and it came right back, loose stools, nightwaking, etc.

So, we we did GF for a bit (we were already CF from the time he was an infant) and it helped some but it was not the final answer, and things were getting worse again. So I researched some more and found this person talking about food combining and how it had helped her IBS or IBD of some sort. I emailed her and she said that actually she had found this diet called the Specific Carbohydrate Diet, and that had been the answer to her GI issues. (Now this was only 2000 so the SCD was not that widely popular yet.) She was so helpful, and helped me get started with it, and overnight there was such a huge difference, again, but even more so than when I eliminated just gluten and sugar. I am pretty sure it was like the 2nd night of SCD that he slept through the night for the first time, and he was over a year old. It made a huge, huge difference.

We stayed on the diet fanatically for three years. At that time, I didn't know about all this other stuff, like the detox pathways, etc. We did do constitutional classical homeopathy at the time. That helped also. But we still had some issues, like at one point he was eating a lot of eggs, and developed eczema from eggs, and then from beef, it kept transferring, but those got better after we cut them out for a while, and he was able to eat them again later. He did still have some lingering symptoms, (less formed poops, etc) that would come and go, for which I think probably some of this other stuff we are talking about now could have helped him. But the SCD was definitely HUGELY helpful. And I took him to a ped GI doc and to be tested for allergies, and they never found anything via conventional testing. (Never did anything invasive like a biopsy though.)

When he was four, things were good, and we decided to start putting things back into his diet. At first I stuck to only sprouted grains, etc (during all this time on SCD I learned about NT and TF and WAPF). And eventually he ate a full diet, including cr@ppy cake at birthday parties. But he always had more symptoms after eating stuff like that. After a birthday party was really bad, and I really felt like something was still not quite right. But, at that time I really let myself be swayed by others telling me there was nothing wrong. So, over the course of those years, I would say we ate more TF at home (sprouted grains and so on) but he still ate other foods when out. And slowly those symptoms starting getting more and more frequent. In the meantime, I had DS2, who had perfect stools once he started on solids. Then they both had the abx for strep, and you know the story from here.

The abx did a number on both of their guts, and we tried healing things with just probiotics and doing GF/CF for almost an entire year. I was resisting going back on SCD because DS2 has a peanut allergy, and I was worried about not having nuts. But then things were getting so bad, complete diarrhea, sometimes not even making it to the bathroom, not gaining weight, DS1 had even LOST weight over that year, and so we went back on SCD starting with the intro and going slow right after Christmas.

Since then, DS1 has gained EIGHT pounds (how many more threads can I post THAT news in??) and DS2 has gained about three or four. That was in 2 and 1/2 months.

So I've been on this track for almost ten years now, and I can definitely say that the paleo-way of eating is what makes the most sense to me, and what makes me feel the best (less brain fog, more energy, lose excess weight easily). During my pregnancy with DS2 I ate about 90% or more SCD, but allowed myself to have one or two pieces of sprouted grain Ezekial bread a day, and occasionally some gluten-free grains, like rice. And I ate lots of high quality protein and not a single drop of sugar the entire pregnancy, and took probiotics. And DS2 had perfect poops until the abx, but he did get the peanut allergy thing.

As for the SCD being a healing diet vs a lifetime thing, I don't know, that's hard to say, and may be different for different people. I think that for some, they will have to eat that way for most of their lives, and for some, they may be able to add some foods in later on down the road.

For example, when we did the SCD I didn't know as much about bone broths and fermented veggies, and for a time we did not do dairy, so our only probiotic source was a supp, but he didn't do well with some of those. So, I think that SCD/GAPS combined with other information can really correct those issues and one can return to adding some things back in eventually, as long as you don't return to the SAD and keep up with eating probiotic whole foods, etc. But I think this takes a few years. I believe the GAPS author says a minimum of 2 years on the diet. I think the longer you've had issues, the longer it will take. I think Elaine, the BTVC author for SCD, said that it took about 2 years for her daughter's symptoms to go away, and that they kept her on the diet for 7 more years beyond that, because the whole family felt better eating that way anyway. After that, her daughter continued to eat about 75% SCD, though rice was one of the things she had a hard time after going off the diet. I was on a list with Elaine when she was still alive, and she was so amazing and helpful to so many people. She had so much wisdom to share.

I would say that the SCD is not hard if you are already doing all of that, and you might find that if you just jump in and try it, you might really see a difference. I mean, I would just do it, it can't hurt, and it might be really helpful, and I wouldn't put it off just because you think it might be too hard. Because I think there are lots of ways to make it easier. having done both intros now, I think the GAPS intro is a lot harder. But I just think that incorporating many of the ideas from GAPS into SCD takes it up a level and can be very helpful.

I don't know if I've answered your question or not, it is super late here so I am rambling by now I'm sure! Feel free tp ask more if I haven't.

[chlobo]

Originally Posted by momofmine

I would say that the SCD is not hard if you are already doing all of that, and you might find that if you just jump in and try it, you might really see a difference. I mean, I would just do it, it can't hurt, and it might be really helpful, and I wouldn't put it off just because you think it might be too hard. Because I think there are lots of ways to make it easier. having done both intros now, I think the GAPS intro is a lot harder. But I just think that incorporating many of the ideas from GAPS into SCD takes it up a level and can be very helpful.

I don't know if I've answered your question or not, it is super late here so I am rambling by now I'm sure! Feel free tp ask more if I haven't.

Well the sleep things sounds absoulutely delightful. If you could promise me that would happen I would do it in a second. I just can't wrap my hands around another huge dietary change right now. But boy it sounds promising.