Let's get some sleep!

[Theloose]

Sleep is really important, and I know it's an issue for a lot of us. Let's pool our sleep knowledge!

From my experience/reading:
Cortisol can mess with your sleep. Signs that it's out of whack are adrenal fatigue, and weird sleep/wake cycles, including staying up late (night owl) and having a hard time waking up in the morning. Low cholesterol is another sign.

The way to address that, is by treating your adrenals. From a nutrient standpoint, that means pantothenic acid (B5), cysteine and magnesium (Mg).
-Suspect Mg if you have chocolate cravings
-Cysteine can be supplemented directly as NAC, or made in your body with Mg, B6 and quality protein.
-If you tend towards acne and keratosis pilaris and have strong nails and/or a white coat on your tongue, you're probably fine on cysteine, so B5 might do better.

Melatonin is necessary for restful, healing sleep. Melatonin is made from serotonin in darkness. Signs that this isn't working right are racing thoughts preventing sleep, depression, anxiety, and carb cravings.

To address melatonin, increase your serotonin and sleep in the dark. To increase serotonin from a nutritional standpoint, you need folate, B6, and tryptophan. You can improve the process by not eating too much protein, having plenty of B3, and eating carbs before bed. One trick is to eat a spoonful or two of honey before going to sleep.

[lil_miss_understood]

Everyone's avoiding the issue.
I'm subbing.

[kjbrown92]

I think my sleep problems are better. The Travacor works wonders for me. Melatonin didn't. I do have adrenal fatigue, but high cholesterol (it sounds like those two shouldn't go together?). I am taking a B-complex but I don't notice any difference in my sleep. I am also taking magnesium and haven't noticed a difference. Maybe I'd notice if it I stopped taking the Travacor and just did the others? I think I'm taking so many supps that I don't know what's helping anymore.

[Theloose]

Travacor

I don't know anything about why melatonin wouldn't help.

If the travacor is helping and the B complex is not, then my guess is that it's either the Mg/B6 helping your adrenals/cortisol, or else you've got (MTHFR issues resulting in) low BH4. The 5HTP would bypass that step for you, and food folate would raise BH4 levels.

To see if I'm on the right track, do you happen to have low keratin (weak nails, no KP, etc) or low dopamine/thyroid/pale coloring?

[lil_miss_understood]

Originally Posted by whoMe

Travacor

I don't know anything about why melatonin wouldn't help.

If the travacor is helping and the B complex is not, then my guess is that it's either the Mg/B6 helping your adrenals/cortisol, or else you've got (MTHFR issues resulting in) low BH4. The 5HTP would bypass that step for you, and food folate would raise BH4 levels.

To see if I'm on the right track, do you happen to have low keratin (weak nails, no KP, etc) or low dopamine/thyroid/pale coloring?

She just said in the chat thread that she has weak, brittle nails.
I'm trying to figure out the high cholesterol now. I know cholesterol is synthesized by the adrenals, which could be contributing to adrenal fatigue (adrenals are busy busy making cholesterol.. question is why?).

[tanyalynn]

Wait, Kathy, how high is your cholesterol? I was sorta concerned another time, I thought you mentioned something like 160 after you started taking fish oil. I think sometimes one problem can mask another--inflammation from something was inflating your cholesterol, and now that you've added an anti-inflammatory, it's plummeted? I'm probably projecting again cause I wasn't horrified at my husband's recent high blood pressure, I think his messed up adrenals were dragging his BP down, when in reality, he's overweight and has a significant family history of high BP. So at least we're seeing the real problem now. And strangely enough, all the readings since that first day when the homeopathic doc gave him a remedy for high blood pressure have been coming down, and now they seem stable in the mid 120s over something a tad high, I forget, but not unreasonable. Homeopathy for high BP, who'da thunk it? Except SB, of course.

[tanyalynn]

I will look later today, I've seen cool breakdowns of the chemicals involved in sleep--and if melatonin didn't help, then the problem in your brain chemicals is happening at a different place, and that's good to know. I'm not sure if I can figure out where Travacor jumps into the process though. That seems a bit more daunting. Have you tried 5-HTP? It's at a slightly different part of the sleep chemical cycle.

[lil_miss_understood]

Okay, high cholesterol (dependent on high ATP), low BH4 (low GTP), you also have a seemingly low production of uric acid.... It sounds like all of your (Kathy's) purines are being routed into making acetyl-coenzyme A (cholesterol precursor)- the opposite problem that whoMe had.

[tanyalynn]

My dad takes something to sleep, I thought it was this (Travacor, I mean), but he's taking a prescription med, so I assumed this was prescription. This is 5-htp and stuff (I don't really know what all the other stuff does, but it looks like it's nice forms of all that stuff, chemically I mean).

[lil_miss_understood]

Everything I'm reading is showing an overgrowth of E. coli....
Send some to me, Kathy!

[Theloose]

Originally Posted by JacquelineR

She just said in the chat thread that she has weak, brittle nails.
I'm trying to figure out the high cholesterol now. I know cholesterol is synthesized by the adrenals, which could be contributing to adrenal fatigue (adrenals are busy busy making cholesterol.. question is why?).

Okay, you expect me to keep details straight across threads!?

I bet it's just the Mg/B6 making more cysteine and helping with cortisol.

Kathy, how's your HDL/LDL?

Is cholesterol really made in the adrenals too, not just used up by them?

[lil_miss_understood]

From what I've read, yes.

How's your vitamin B3 intake, Kathy? Apparently niacin can be synthesized from tryptophan.

[Theloose]

Originally Posted by JacquelineR

How's your vitamin B3 intake, Kathy? Apparently niacin can be synthesized from tryptophan.

That's too funny. I just edited the OP to add B3 to the serotonin section. I was busy (finally) reading this article from Pat while you were posting.

[Phoenix_Rising]

Subbing. Sleep = good. I need to see if my doctor can/will test me for adrenal fatigue.

[lil_miss_understood]

Also, Kathy, if you're low in vitamin E, it's possible that your need for B3/niacin would be increased (see the vitamin E thread).

[kjbrown92]

Who needs a doctor when I've got this crew with all the brainpower?!?!

Originally Posted by whoMe

Travacor

I don't know anything about why melatonin wouldn't help.

If the travacor is helping and the B complex is not, then my guess is that it's either the Mg/B6 helping your adrenals/cortisol, or else you've got (MTHFR issues resulting in) low BH4. The 5HTP would bypass that step for you, and food folate would raise BH4 levels.

To see if I'm on the right track, do you happen to have low keratin (weak nails, no KP, etc) or low dopamine/thyroid/pale coloring?

Weak/brittle nails, no KP, pale-ish, thyroid is normal. Adrenals are fatigued. I tried melatonin for a few weeks and it didn't do anything. But here's the weird thing about sleep stuff... before I found out about the adrenal fatigue, I told my allopath dr about my sleep issues (a couple hours to fall asleep, and if I woke up for one of the kids in the night, it would take me another hour or so to fall back asleep, and woke up exhausted each morning). He prescribed Rozerem for me. I took it when it said to but I didn't get tired until the following afternoon (around 3-5pm I could barely keep my eyes opened). Tried it for a couple days and it did the same thing. The doctor said he never heard of it producing that effect. He says it either works for people or doesn't; he never heard of a delayed reaction. So then I tried the Vital Nutrients Sleep Aide (passionflower herb, lemon balm, hops strobile, california poppy, valerian officinalis root, lavender, melatonin, L-theanine) and the exact same thing happened. I've tried stopping the Travacor (actually it's because I run out then I have to wait for the order - duh!) and I go back to the old sleep pattern every time.

Originally Posted by TanyaLopez

Wait, Kathy, how high is your cholesterol? I was sorta concerned another time, I thought you mentioned something like 160 after you started taking fish oil. I think sometimes one problem can mask another--inflammation from something was inflating your cholesterol, and now that you've added an anti-inflammatory, it's plummeted? I'm probably projecting again cause I wasn't horrified at my husband's recent high blood pressure, I think his messed up adrenals were dragging his BP down, when in reality, he's overweight and has a significant family history of high BP. So at least we're seeing the real problem now. And strangely enough, all the readings since that first day when the homeopathic doc gave him a remedy for high blood pressure have been coming down, and now they seem stable in the mid 120s over something a tad high, I forget, but not unreasonable. Homeopathy for high BP, who'da thunk it? Except SB, of course.

It's hovered at 220-230 since the first time I had it checked when I was 21 (and I'm underweight, though I don't/can't exercise). And it was high bad, low good, and high lipids, the worst of everything. After I started taking the 4 high potency fish capsules a day, it went down to 160 or something with high good, low bad, and fine on the lipids. I'm curious what it is now though, because I'm only taking 2 capsules a day (after DH's TIA scare, he's been taking 2 a day as well; they found he had high cholesterol in the hospital, and his had been good up to that point).

Originally Posted by JacquelineR

Okay, high cholesterol (dependent on high ATP), low BH4 (low GTP), you also have a seemingly low production of uric acid.... It sounds like all of your (Kathy's) purines are being routed into making acetyl-coenzyme A (cholesterol precursor)- the opposite problem that whoMe had.

Is that English? I should have paid more attention in my science courses, eh?

Originally Posted by JacquelineR

Everything I'm reading is showing an overgrowth of E. coli....
Send some to me, Kathy!

Gee, 80% of my UTIs are caused by e. coli (the others are klebsiella and citrobacter). You're so smart, Jacqueline! But how do I have an overgrowth if I'm always on abx?

Originally Posted by JacquelineR

From what I've read, yes.

How's your vitamin B3 intake, Kathy? Apparently niacin can be synthesized from tryptophan.

I just looked at my B-complex (vital nutrients) and I don't see B3, but I do see niacinamide (75mg). That's the same thing isn't it?

Originally Posted by JacquelineR

Also, Kathy, if you're low in vitamin E, it's possible that your need for B3/niacin would be increased (see the vitamin E thread).

Olives (and olive oil) are a good source of vitamin E.
Unrefined palm or coconut oil are also good sources.

And how do I figure that out? Our only oils are olive and coconut. I use palm shortening, but I assume that's "refined". We eat broccoli every 4 days, and blueberries in smoothies once a week. There's 100% of Vitamin E in that Vitamin Code vitamin. Maybe I really should be taking it.

I just got on here to look "really quickly" and it sounds like everyone is at a research library! It's a good thing DH is on night shift tonight so I can stay up!

[Theloose]

Yeah, I stick by my vote of B6/mag as what's doing it. Next time you run out, try just supping those? Since you should be able to easily buy them locally.

I should start a cholesterol thread, but it would belong in H&H, and I don't want all the 'normal' cholesterol advice...

[coolgirl]

Originally Posted by whoMe

Travacor

I don't know anything about why melatonin wouldn't help.

If the travacor is helping and the B complex is not, then my guess is that it's either the Mg/B6 helping your adrenals/cortisol, or else you've got (MTHFR issues resulting in) low BH4. The 5HTP would bypass that step for you, and food folate would raise BH4 levels.

To see if I'm on the right track, do you happen to have low keratin (weak nails, no KP, etc) or low dopamine/thyroid/pale coloring?

Is travacor same as taking the 5HTP alone???

[kjbrown92]

Originally Posted by whoMe

Yeah, I stick by my vote of B6/mag as what's doing it. Next time you run out, try just supping those? Since you should be able to easily buy them locally.

As in, B6/magnesium (or lack thereof, actually) is what would help me sleep?

Originally Posted by coolgirl

Is travacor same as taking the 5HTP alone???

Travacor is taurine, 5-HTP, L-theanine, selenium, zinc, magnesium, B12, B6 (450% of DV) and Vitamin C. It's marketed as a neurotransmitter support (recommended by the ND and the lab that did my adrenal fatigue test)

[Theloose]

Originally Posted by kjbrown92

As in, B6/magnesium (or lack thereof, actually) is what would help me sleep?

Yeah, as in you are deficient in B6 and magnesium, and so those are the active ingredients for you. At least, that's my hunch. And that those will be key for fixing your adrenals, along with animal protein. And that NAC might be a good supplement for you if you wanted to go that route. And I'm really curious to know if my advice is actually worth anything... (not that I'm pushing you, just that I have no experience to know if I'm totally missing something)