Will there ever be a student loan bailout? - Page 10

[p1gg1e]

Did anyone go into the military to pay for college?

[EFmom]

Originally Posted by CatsCradle

However, I have seen many, many people take positions that they hated in order to pay their student loans.

This doesn't exactly break my heart. I've taken jobs that I hated and worked hard at them until I was in a position to do something different. That's just being a mature adult. Sometimes life isn't a bowl of cherries, but that doesn't mean one should expect other people to pay to make things rosier for you.

[AlwaysByMySide]

Originally Posted by CatsCradle

However, I have seen many, many people take positions that they hated in order to pay their student loans.

I've taken positions that I've hated in order to put food on the table. How is that any different?

[Ofwait]

Originally Posted by p1gg1e

Did anyone go into the military to pay for college?

Knew a couple people who did... my Dh tried, but they wouldn't take him due to athsma...


What I really don't like is they way they do the student loans, I was told as a student that it was okay that the school was raising its tuition, because the feds were uping the student loan maximums, but they wouldn't raise the wage for on campus jobs.

[CatsCradle]

I've taken positions that I've hated in order to put food on the table. How is that any different?

I think we've all done that. I wasn't trying to be adversarial when I wrote my last post, and perhaps I should have been a little more specific.

As a working mom and as a lawyer, I've seen a lot of colleagues take positions that require them to spend longer hours away from their families, with little or no flexibility, for pay that will allow them to maintain their student loan payments. Now, if someone wants to come back at me and state "it's their fault for taking out so many loans and it was their choice to go to school" and the classic "they should have thought ahead about how this would affect their family life", I say: some of the best laid plans can go awry and some of the most unexpected things can happen in one's life. I find the problem to be especially prevelant among female attorneys who want to start families.

I believe people need to take responsibility for their choices, but I also believe that people need to work toward their goals and dreams and to take risks. I do think that young people need more counseling up front regarding college and the costs, and that is where I see the problem. It's a broken system but no one wants to address that. Rather, it is easier to stand on soap boxes. C'est la vie.

[bigeyes]

Originally Posted by AlwaysByMySide

It's not a different discussion, because the government is spending money. I don't think the rich should get a bailout, anymore than I think people who owe on student loans should get a bailout.

Maybe the poor should get a bailout. Maybe the child care subsidy programs in the states that have too many people on the list should get a bailout. Maybe Section 8 should get a bailout.

It is a different discussion, because the way the welfare to work system is designed is stupid. It's completely dumb to spend a bunch of government money on public transportation and childcare that costs more than a woman is going to earn just so she can put her kids in daycare needlessly and others can feel good about making her earn the 'help' she gets that does nothing to break the cycle of poverty. The whole system is flawed and wastes millions of dollars to do nothing but humiliate women and children.

But I guess it is sort of related because it is an example of how the poor don't get bailed out, they have to beg and plead for any kind of 'help' they get, jump through hoops and prove how hard they work for any crumbs they get, while the rich can just fritter away their money, fly in to meet with congress in their private jets with their hands out and they say here have a bunch of taxpayer dollars. They should have to jump through as many hoops as a welfare mother does. Let them suffer some humiliation for taking a handout for a change.

Those guys don't have to feel one bit of humiliation for the cr@p they've done, and they're basically thieves. But let a woman lose her husband and be left with 3 kids to feed and she's treated like scum. There is so much wrong with that it makes me want to scream. Why do we reward people who already have the advantages and treat people who are struggling like dirt?

[bigeyes]

Originally Posted by p1gg1e

Did anyone go into the military to pay for college?

I've known people who did that too. What a great choice. Get your @$$ shot off to get an education.

[CatsCradle]

Originally Posted by EFmom

This doesn't exactly break my heart. I've taken jobs that I hated and worked hard at them until I was in a position to do something different. That's just being a mature adult. Sometimes life isn't a bowl of cherries, but that doesn't mean one should expect other people to pay to make things rosier for you.

I don't think I was suggesting that. At the beginning of my first post, I said that I don't support bailouts. What I was trying to suggest is that we have a system that allows young people to take out loans the size of a mortgage - when they are extremely immature and have no financial foresight, and then those same people find themselves in a position down the road where they need to make tough choices about how to pay them back. As I stated in the post above, this is especially a concern for young women. I married a guy who became a civil servant. He doesn't make enough to cover my loans. Therefore I work. It is a catch-22 in a lot of respects. I don't regret my decisions but if facts were any different, I might. We had a harder time getting a mortgage for our apartment than I did getting student loans...and we were established with a good income and savings. Something seems wrong about that. No one wants to talk about that, though. It is easier to blame the individual for poor choices or lack of knowledge.

Final points: Higher education is too expensive. Loans are too easy to get. Not enough counseling happens on the front end. Young people often lack financial foresight. Most student loan companies make more back in interest than the original loan. I find that usurious.

[sanguine_speed]

Originally Posted by bigeyes

I've known people who did that too. What a great choice. Get your @$$ shot off to get an education.

Well that's what I was wanting to reply, but what i decided to say instead was that where I live only certain degree programs can be paid for this way, and most of them aren't included in that list, including mine.

[sanguine_speed]

Originally Posted by wildmonkeys

I did have jobs throughout college and also earned (non-need) academic based scholarships and graduated with limited debt which I easily repaid as (ironically) a social worker

It's not ironic to earn a good wage as a social worker with a graduate degree. At least not around here. Getting a graduate degree is another 1-2 years after a 4-year degree here, and I'm just going to have to do the grad degree to earn more than minimum wage.

[bigeyes]

Originally Posted by sanguine_speed

It's not ironic to earn a good wage as a social worker with a graduate degree. At least not around here. Getting a graduate degree is another 1-2 years after a 4-year degree here, and I'm just going to have to do the grad degree to earn more than minimum wage.

Yes, and that sucks. It isn't right to need to go into debt just to earn a cr@p wage. And while there are plenty of people who think they will earn a 4 year degree and make the big bucks, there are many of us who realize a degree is to us what a high school diploma was to our parents. And a HS diploma was free.

Honestly, I have seen receptionist jobs advertised requiring a degree.

[bigeyes]

Originally Posted by sanguine_speed

Well that's what I was wanting to reply, but what i decided to say instead was that where I live only certain degree programs can be paid for this way, and most of them aren't included in that list, including mine.

Yup, that too. And it's always easy for people to come up with solutions for other people. Kind of like when people who have never tried to get disability tell people who are sick how easy it is to go on disability?

[AndrewsMother]

Originally Posted by CatsCradle

What I was trying to suggest is that we have a system that allows young people to take out loans the size of a mortgage - when they are extremely immature and have no financial foresight, and then those same people find themselves in a position down the road where they need to make tough choices about how to pay them back. might. We had a harder time getting a mortgage for our apartment than I did getting student loans...and we were established with a good income and savings. Something seems wrong about that. No one wants to talk about that, though. It is easier to blame the individual for poor choices or lack of knowledge.

Who would finance education if student loans were not readily available? Student loans are easy to obtain because and education is required to obtain and move ahead in most careers. Purchasing a home is not a necessary for survival.

Why can't the blamed be placed on people who make poor choices or fail to arm themselves with adequate knowledge. The word loan is not in supscripts and the payment terms and interests rates are not hidden from the debtor. So why can't we hold loan recpients responsible for their debts.

[AndrewsMother]

Originally Posted by p1gg1e

Did anyone go into the military to pay for college?

I thought about ROTC, but I changed my mind, the pay after college is not competive for my desired field. My education might be free, but I would make considerably less than I would in the private sector.

[bigeyes]

Originally Posted by CatsCradle

I don't think I was suggesting that. At the beginning of my first post, I said that I don't support bailouts. What I was trying to suggest is that we have a system that allows young people to take out loans the size of a mortgage - when they are extremely immature and have no financial foresight, and then those same people find themselves in a position down the road where they need to make tough choices about how to pay them back. As I stated in the post above, this is especially a concern for young women. I married a guy who became a civil servant. He doesn't make enough to cover my loans. Therefore I work. It is a catch-22 in a lot of respects. I don't regret my decisions but if facts were any different, I might. We had a harder time getting a mortgage for our apartment than I did getting student loans...and we were established with a good income and savings. Something seems wrong about that. No one wants to talk about that, though. It is easier to blame the individual for poor choices or lack of knowledge.

Final points: Higher education is too expensive. Loans are too easy to get. Not enough counseling happens on the front end. Young people often lack financial foresight. Most student loan companies make more back in interest than the original loan. I find that usurious.

I think this bears repeating. I saw a show about debt and finance years ago on Oprah where financial experts were talking to young people who just could not be made to understand that bad things could happen to them. They were all convinced that they were making good money and could pay their bills so nothing would ever happen to let them experience a financial disaster.

How many people are losing their homes right now who thought the same thing? I used to make really good money without a college degree, but when my division was dissolved and I was transferred to a job within the company that sent me home crying every single night, I found out I had no marketable skills that would net me anything near what I was making. I already had bills and couldn't afford to take a pay cut, or go back to school. I can't be the only one. People have children, mortgages, car loans, layoffs, sh!t happens. It's always easier to believe bad stuff only happens to people who aren't trying than it is to think it can happen to you.

When you're 18 or 21 and bulletproof, nobody can tell you this stuff. Most of us have to find it out the hard way.

Sure people are naive for getting into the mess with student loans and credit cards, but that doesn't make the companies behind the loans and the credit cards any less predatory for taking advantage.

[Hey Mama!]

Big Eyes, I think I love you. Well said!

[bigeyes]

(blush)
Well, CatsCradle said it first.

In our society that's the real problem, we always want to punish people when they fall on hard times, and we always reward the rich when they screw up. That is so profoundly effed up it blows my mind. And when working people support it, it's infuriating.

[readytobedone]

i think the student loan situation in this country is abominable. i've heard gov't leaders (henry paulson, for one, i think) say that we need to make student loans more accessible.

that would get a big hells to the no from me!

if you ask me, the accessibility of student loans has allowed the price of tuition to sky rocket. if schools knew people didn't have endless pots of money to borrow from in order to go there, they'd have no choice but to pick their price points carefully, like any other business.

if anything, we need FEWER loans--and cheaper college. like, way cheaper college.

does anyone have any idea where all this tuition money is going? for the most part, it's NOT going to prof. salaries...so where's it going?

[~PurityLake~]

Originally Posted by bigeyes

When you're 18 or 21 and bulletproof, nobody can tell you this stuff. Most of us have to find it out the hard way.

Like my husband, and he's 31!

Age does not ensure wisdom.

[~PurityLake~]

Originally Posted by readytobedone

if schools knew people didn't have endless pots of money to borrow from in order to go there, they'd have no choice but to pick their price points carefully, like any other business.

does anyone have any idea where all this tuition money is going? for the most part, it's NOT going to prof. salaries...so where's it going?

I wonder. I also hate seeing educational institutes being seen as businesses, because that means the $$$$ profit is more important than the education.