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Will there ever be a student loan bailout? - Page 11

post #201 of 282
The few months that I was involved with the welfare to work program, I had to take a job with a terrible schedule. My ds was in daycare from 5:45AM to bedtime. THey took him to school, picked him up after school, fed him his meals, and I saw him for very little time. It was ridiculous the hoops I had to jump through. The job had forced overtime and a ridiculous absence policy that meant I could be fired if I missed 3 days. I never saw my ds and daycare was raising him.

I took the first job I was offered and they let me go with no warning. The next job I took told me it was a receptionist job but it was really phone sales and they fired me after the first day because I suck at sales. The welfare people accused me of sabotaging my jobs and threatened to cut off my benefits so I took the job with the awful schedule so I could survive, and I never saw my son at all. I was exhausted an desperate. They told me I would have to put my 7 year old on a city bus in the dark to get to school, by himself, and take public transit to get myself to work, but since I had a car they said I could drive. When I balked at putting my ds on a city bus in the dark they said too bad, that's what we had to do.

The only way I got out of it was my job was driving city transit and the buses didn't run until those of us who drove the first ones for the day got to work. So I got to put ds in daycare and found one with a drop off service and got out of the bus situation. When I got off training pay took away my food stamps, then when I got my first raise I lost my help with daycare and was back in the hole again.

That is the reality of how welfare to work 'works.' I had 1 child, I met a woman who was widowed with several children who had never worked. I have no idea how the h3ll she survived.

Most days I went to work at 6AM after making sure my ds was already at daycare and didn't get home until at least 8 or 9PM. 6 or 7 days a week.
But I of course wasn't trying hard enough and bankers who can afford private jets deserve bailouts.

Every day I would pick up another welfare to work mother who had 2 little boys she would take on the bus to daycare, then wait an hour for the next bus so she could get to work, then at night she would take the bus back to daycare to pick them up, then wait an hour to take the bus home. In our town the buses only ran every hour per route, not like a bigger city where you could catch one every 15 or 20 minutes. One day she and I were talking and she told me she was packing it in and moving back in with her mother, it was just too hard. That is the reality of being the working poor.

Welfare to work isn't about helping working mothers, it's about shaming them and encouraging them to get married or to move back in with family. Anybody who thinks differently hasn't dealt with the system.
post #202 of 282
I would personally benefit from a student loan bailout, and it would help my family tremendously, but imo it is not the solution to the problem.

What would be great is if policies were put in to place so that banks weren't making huge profits off of student loans. The interest rate on my loans is 8%, and it sucks. But the law only allows one consolidation, so I'm stuck with that crappy rate until I pay it off. I think they should allow refi's and have a competitive market for loans just like for home mortgages. That would make things much easier for me by cutting my payment significantly, yet the bank still makes a profit.
post #203 of 282
Reopening
post #204 of 282
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by readytobedone View Post
i think the student loan situation in this country is abominable. i've heard gov't leaders (henry paulson, for one, i think) say that we need to make student loans more accessible.

that would get a big hells to the no from me!

if you ask me, the accessibility of student loans has allowed the price of tuition to sky rocket. if schools knew people didn't have endless pots of money to borrow from in order to go there, they'd have no choice but to pick their price points carefully, like any other business.

if anything, we need FEWER loans--and cheaper college. like, way cheaper college.

does anyone have any idea where all this tuition money is going? for the most part, it's NOT going to prof. salaries...so where's it going?
:

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlwaysByMySide View Post
Student loans are just that. A loan.

I paid off my car in full. Can't be bailed out of that.
I don't own a home, so that's irrelevant to me.
I paid off my student loans in full. Can't be bailed out of that.
Nope - Sorry but it's not the same. Other loans can be forgiven in bankruptcy, student loans can't. For that one reason, student loans are a whole different kind of beast.
post #205 of 282
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigeyes View Post
When you're 18 or 21 and bulletproof, nobody can tell you this stuff. Most of us have to find it out the hard way.

Sure people are naive for getting into the mess with student loans and credit cards, but that doesn't make the companies behind the loans and the credit cards any less predatory for taking advantage.
That's what happened to my brother. He just saw all the money he should be making at his career he's studied five years from and thought any expense was justified. It is just recently that he sees that having a good paying job right out of school is not always as sure of a sure thing as it was made out to be, regardless of course of study. He reported being very humbled by the sheer number of applicants at a recent job fair for people only in his career band. He is a BSME for what it is worth. But now he is also ridiculous in debt for being young and dumb.

Same thing happened to me to some extent, though I was able to bail long before my debt became anywhere near unmanageable.
post #206 of 282
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlwaysByMySide View Post
It's not a different discussion, because the government is spending money. I don't think the rich should get a bailout, anymore than I think people who owe on student loans should get a bailout.

Maybe the poor should get a bailout. Maybe the child care subsidy programs in the states that have too many people on the list should get a bailout. Maybe Section 8 should get a bailout.
They are expanding the social welfare programs, actually. That was included in the last bill.
post #207 of 282
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigeyes View Post

Welfare to work isn't about helping working mothers, it's about shaming them and encouraging them to get married or to move back in with family. Anybody who thinks differently hasn't dealt with the system.

I see nothing shameful in relying on family in hard times. That's the greater purpose of family, IMO. They should be the first line of defense against homelessness and hunger. Then seek charity. THEN seek government assistance.
post #208 of 282
Quote:
Originally Posted by llamalluv View Post
I see nothing shameful in relying on family in hard times. That's the greater purpose of family, IMO. They should be the first line of defense against homelessness and hunger. Then seek charity. THEN seek government assistance.
Which is great, if you have family to rely on. But if your family is abusive, or you have no family, you're kinda screwed, aren't you? :

How many women on MDC post stories every day about family none of us would tell them to run back to? Social services exist for a reason, but they do their best to throw women and children right back to the very people they're supposed to help them stay away from.

And I don't believe these things should be thought of as charity, either. They are programs that come from taxpayer money to help people better their lives. I worked 2 and 3 jobs at a time from the time I was 13. I only drew unemployment once in my life for less than 6 months and I was on food stamps for something like 2 months. I hardly consider myself a charity case considering the amount I paid in and the amount I've done to help other people in my lifetime.

When someone needs a little help getting back on their feet they shouldn't be treated like they've been a drain on society.
post #209 of 282
Quote:
Originally Posted by gingerbane View Post
Nope - Sorry but it's not the same. Other loans can be forgiven in bankruptcy, student loans can't. For that one reason, student loans are a whole different kind of beast.

But bankruptcy court can take back the car or house or other material goods in order to at least partially "pay back" the creditor that is being screwed through bankruptcy. With a student loan, they can't take back the knowledge one receives. The creditor is screwed and left holding nothing.
post #210 of 282
Quote:
Originally Posted by velochic View Post
But bankruptcy court can take back the car or house or other material goods in order to at least partially "pay back" the creditor that is being screwed through bankruptcy. With a student loan, they can't take back the knowledge one receives. The creditor is screwed and left holding nothing.
But credit card bills are bankrupted out on also, and the merchandise you bought on them is not recoverable either.

What are they gonna do? Pump your stomach for those restaurant meals? They can't get back the gasoline you put in your car, or track down every department store purchase, or make you come back from a vacation you charged, etc.
post #211 of 282
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigeyes View Post
But credit card bills are bankrupted out on also, and the merchandise you bought on them is not recoverable either.

What are they gonna do? Pump your stomach for those restaurant meals? They can't get back the gasoline you put in your car, or track down every department store purchase, or make you come back from a vacation you charged, etc.
But what they *can* get their hands on, they do. From the outset, an education is a KNOWN that they can never get back.
post #212 of 282
Quote:
Originally Posted by velochic View Post
With a student loan, they can't take back the knowledge one receives. The creditor is screwed and left holding nothing.
Actually I think universities have WAY more financial pull than many people realize... when I was applying for jobs no one asked me even ONCE to see my diploma.. they all wanted to see my transcripts. And guess what? If I owe one penny to the university, I can order my transcripts from them all they want, but I certainly would never see them..
post #213 of 282
Quote:
Originally Posted by velochic View Post
But what they *can* get their hands on, they do. From the outset, an education is a KNOWN that they can never get back.
True, but so are credit cards, and you can bankrupt out on them. Not for such large amounts individually, true, but still it's unrecoverable.

And realistically, when you recover a car, it isn't worth what is owed.

Unpaid debt is a loss, whether it's secured or not.

But remember too, those companies can write off unpaid debt on their taxes, so even when they aren't paid by the consumer, they get their money in tax breaks.
post #214 of 282
Quote:
Originally Posted by readytobedone View Post
i think the student loan situation in this country is abominable. i've heard gov't leaders (henry paulson, for one, i think) say that we need to make student loans more accessible.

that would get a big hells to the no from me!

if you ask me, the accessibility of student loans has allowed the price of tuition to sky rocket. if schools knew people didn't have endless pots of money to borrow from in order to go there, they'd have no choice but to pick their price points carefully, like any other business.

if anything, we need FEWER loans--and cheaper college. like, way cheaper college.
I agree.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinoikoi View Post
Actually I think universities have WAY more financial pull than many people realize... when I was applying for jobs no one asked me even ONCE to see my diploma.. they all wanted to see my transcripts. And guess what? If I owe one penny to the university, I can order my transcripts from them all they want, but I certainly would never see them..
A diploma can be faked VERY easily. But an official transcript sent directly from the institution? A little harder to fake. Not to mention, employers probably want to see which classes you took and how you did. A diploma doesn't tell the prospective employer whether you slacked off all through school or if you had a 4.0.
post #215 of 282
Quote:
Originally Posted by p1gg1e View Post
Did anyone go into the military to pay for college?
I tried. I couldn't lose enough weight. I was very muscular throughout high school from all the biking, weight lifting, marching band, track and swimming I did. I weighed 168 when I applied to join the Navy. They have the least strict weight, hit/waist/neck measurements. (dont' ask me why the neck measurement was so important ). I manage to drop down to 154 pounds. I could NOT lose anymore weight. My recruited told me, we want your mind, just not your body . ha ha ha. : So, although I tried to use military for acquiring an education, that didn't work out for me, either.
post #216 of 282
governments that want to see longterm improvement in their nation's wellbeing do three things. or, at least, botswana, sweden and norway have done these things, and they have seen their countries turn around within a generation.

1. make education free, period. money should never be a barrier to learning. it shouldn't even factor in. that said, students who don't try should be kicked out of school. students with learning disabilities should have extra help, though.

2. free healthcare. it's a no-brainer. the rest of the developed world has it, why not the states?

3. free childcare. people (like me) that can't work because the wages wouldn't cover the cost of daycare are being punished for having kids. free childcare levels the playing field and makes a career and education accessible to everyone.

and yes, before you ask, i am a socialist.
post #217 of 282
Quote:
Originally Posted by josybear View Post
governments that want to see longterm improvement in their nation's wellbeing do three things. or, at least, botswana, sweden and norway have done these things, and they have seen their countries turn around within a generation.

1. make education free, period. money should never be a barrier to learning. it shouldn't even factor in. that said, students who don't try should be kicked out of school. students with learning disabilities should have extra help, though.

2. free healthcare. it's a no-brainer. the rest of the developed world has it, why not the states?

3. free childcare. people (like me) that can't work because the wages wouldn't cover the cost of daycare are being punished for having kids. free childcare levels the playing field and makes a career and education accessible to everyone.

and yes, before you ask, i am a socialist.
This is something I've been saying for YEARS!
post #218 of 282
I am all for lower cost public higher education. Student loans also incorp money students SPEND. I remember people taking vacations with their loan money when dh and I worked our spring breaks to make enough extra cash to last until summer....

Not to add another element to this discussion, but...

I also wonder how this works with more expensive private schools? I went to public high school and my parents saved what they could to chip in for my college education at a public school where I got a scholarship and paid most of my way. What I didn't pay for, I borrowed and paid back.

So, my next door neighbors have sent their kids to a swanky private school and she said they have NO MONEY saved for college. I have other neighbors who have sent their kids to public school and saved for college. Does it make sense that the families who have saved, pay twice? Really?

I get individual circumstances and I believe in a SAFETY NET - for those who lose their jobs, don't have health insurance, need a public education, etc., but it isn't fair that in all these bailouts...people aren't being asked to provide a safety net, but to bailout people who have decidied to purchase things
(big houses, expensive educations, cars, whatever) that they themselves have gone without. Does that make sense? I am all for helping people when they are down, but so much of it seems unfair lately.
post #219 of 282
Quote:
Originally Posted by josybear View Post
1. make education free, period. money should never be a barrier to learning. it shouldn't even factor in. that said, students who don't try should be kicked out of school. students with learning disabilities should have extra help, though.
Education already is free through 12th grade, which is more than what many countries offer.
post #220 of 282
Quote:
Originally Posted by wildmonkeys View Post
I get individual circumstances and I believe in a SAFETY NET - for those who lose their jobs, don't have health insurance, need a public education, etc., but it isn't fair that in all these bailouts...people aren't being asked to provide a safety net, but to bailout people who have decidied to purchase things
(big houses, expensive educations, cars, whatever) that they themselves have gone without. Does that make sense? I am all for helping people when they are down, but so much of it seems unfair lately.
I agree. I don't have a problem with people getting basic needs met. I don't want to pay for someone else's luxeries that I can't afford to buy for myself.
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