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Will there ever be a student loan bailout? - Page 13

post #241 of 282
Quote:
Originally Posted by EFmom View Post
I also work at a university and while I agree that there are a lot of people at college who aren't at all academically oriented, I think there is a danger in overestimating the number of jobs that still exist where a person can earn a living wage without having a college degree.
true. but i guess what i'm saying is there SHOULD be more jobs where you can earn a living wage without having a college degree, since lots of jobs for which you "need" a college degree, you really do NOT need it!

i basically think the whole system needs to be revamped. college should be for people who want/need specific academic training, not for everyone.
post #242 of 282
Quote:
Originally Posted by EFmom View Post
I also work at a university and while I agree that there are a lot of people at college who aren't at all academically oriented, I think there is a danger in overestimating the number of jobs that still exist where a person can earn a living wage without having a college degree.

Yes, we still need some plumbers and mechanics. But we also used to put far more people to work in manufacturing, where blue collar positions earned enough to support a family. Those jobs are long gone and have been replaced by low paying service jobs which often are part-time and have no or poor benefits.
Quote:
Originally Posted by readytobedone View Post
true. but i guess what i'm saying is there SHOULD be more jobs where you can earn a living wage without having a college degree, since lots of jobs for which you "need" a college degree, you really do NOT need it!

i basically think the whole system needs to be revamped. college should be for people who want/need specific academic training, not for everyone.
Exactly! Plumbers and mechanics don't really NEED college. But to be honest, my DH who is a senior level IT professional isn't using any of the skills or knowledge that he learned while earning a biology degree either. He didn't need a college education to effectively do his job- he's learned all of his job-related skills while on the job. I've seen job placement ads for administrative assistants that require a college degree; this seems excessive to me.

While I do value education in and of itself, I think that the pendulum has swung too far and there are far too many employers requiring college degrees for jobs that don't require specialized skills.
post #243 of 282
Quote:
Originally Posted by readytobedone View Post
true. but i guess what i'm saying is there SHOULD be more jobs where you can earn a living wage without having a college degree, since lots of jobs for which you "need" a college degree, you really do NOT need it!

i basically think the whole system needs to be revamped. college should be for people who want/need specific academic training, not for everyone.
Well, that's a nice thought. But who exactly is "the system" and who is going to be in charge of revamping it?

Employers ask for the qualifications they want, whether or not they are genuinely useful to the position. It's pretty common for employers to ask for people who are overeducated, overexperienced and walk on water for entry level jobs with entry level pay. Stupid maybe, but it's entirely within their rights.

Colleges aren't going to start drastically cutting their enrollments any time soon. If people meet the admission criteria, should colleges really be telling people, "no you should go to cosmetology school (or plumbing school or whatever)" because the colleges think they are in charge of revamping the system?
post #244 of 282
Quote:
Originally Posted by EFmom View Post
Well, that's a nice thought. But who exactly is "the system" and who is going to be in charge of revamping it?

Employers ask for the qualifications they want, whether or not they are genuinely useful to the position. It's pretty common for employers to ask for people who are overeducated, overexperienced and walk on water for entry level jobs with entry level pay. Stupid maybe, but it's entirely within their rights.

Colleges aren't going to start drastically cutting their enrollments any time soon. If people meet the admission criteria, should colleges really be telling people, "no you should go to cosmetology school (or plumbing school or whatever)" because the colleges think they are in charge of revamping the system?
A lot of it isn't 'employers', it's HR. We just hired someone in our department and since I'm next in line for my manager's job I was intimately involved for the first time in the process. We wrote up the job description and skills, but our HR recruiter posted the add -- and added a ton of education and certification requirements that had nothing to do with the job and actually kept us from finding the right candidate. We really wanted industry experience more than anything else. He listed the job as requiring a paralegal degree and preferring a JD. Which meant we got a crap ton of newly minted baby lawyers who didn't know anything about our industry and really wanted to be litigators and no one with the industry experience we wanted. HR INSISTED that we couldn't post the job with a less intense education requirement, so we interviewed for six months until we finally found someone with a paralegal degree and a brain and hired her. If she ever quits, I will cry.
post #245 of 282
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seasons View Post
You and I are on exactly the same page. I'd tried to make a clever response to yours, but after subtracting the sarcasm (which would have gotten me an alert) I was left with boring old obviousness, sorry!
LOL Gotcha!
post #246 of 282
So I have over a hundred credit hours towards an ECE degree. I need about 15 more hours to graduate, but haven't been able to go back due to lack of money and no longer wanting to have to take out student loans. My dh works at a comm. college that has an agreement with a 4 year, and spouses can go to school for free!: Sounds good, huh? Well, I was looking at their catalog yesterday anticipating taking summer classes and lo and behold if I transfer there, I will lose 24 hours of classes over the 350 level. They wil not accept education classes over that level as transfer credits. Now, I am stuck once again with trying to struggle to pay for a degree I started 12 years ago. If colleges wouldn't pull crap like this-they are forcing people into student loans and debt because they will not accept transfer hours. I already lost a bunch of hours transfering in my junior year of college the first time around. The amount of hours I have taken I should have had my degree by now. It's just a money making scheme for the institution.
post #247 of 282
I wish!!! I took out my first student loans when I was 17 yrs old, too young to have a clue as to the impact it would have on my life. The interest rates were over 8%. I had my first baby right out of college and he was in the NICU. With all his medical expenses and such, we had to do forbearances. Now, the student loan payment is the biggest bill we have, with little to no chance of ever paying it off. I am turning 39 this summer. What started at maybe $30,000 is at $110,000 now as I do not even pay enough to make the interest payments. The government is definitely making money off of me.
post #248 of 282
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lisa1970 View Post
I wish!!! I took out my first student loans when I was 17 yrs old, too young to have a clue as to the impact it would have on my life. The interest rates were over 8%. I had my first baby right out of college and he was in the NICU. With all his medical expenses and such, we had to do forbearances. Now, the student loan payment is the biggest bill we have, with little to no chance of ever paying it off. I am turning 39 this summer. What started at maybe $30,000 is at $110,000 now as I do not even pay enough to make the interest payments. The government is definitely making money off of me.
That so sucks. It is really unfair. I got the forbearance paperwork for my student loans recently, but after reading the RIDICULOUS terms I decided against it. It is really sad that all these banks are like vultures picking people's lives apart, but to me it is the worst when it is a student loan of all things. They should really be willing to work with people on these to help. I wouldn't be surprised if the Obama administration doesn't put something in place to help make student loans more affordable, I guess the question is if it will help a bunch of old fogeys like us with loans that are already a few years old.
post #249 of 282
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tradd View Post

I'd appreciate someone explaining this thinking to me, because I don't get it. I went to a second-tier state school for journalism (1987-1991). Parents paid tuition and some of rent and I paid everything else. Lived pretty frugal, no car, etc. No loans. I only worked as a reporter for 16 months, but having that journalism degree on my resume has been very helpful (given the lack of communications skills many have, my employers have been happy to see that - I can't tell you how many MBAs I've seen who can't spell very common words - and in emails to customers, too!)
You should understand that you are damn lucky that your parents paid for you. Having that opportunity would have changed my life. Changed it completely. And if that had happened to my husband too then, well, I can't even imagine how easy our lives would be now. Just count your blessings and try not to judge those of us who at 18 were not world wise and only knew that everyone was telling us that an education would be the key to escaping poverty and that the loans would be easy to repay. I'm sorry now that I believed it. But I did and I can't go back and undo it.
post #250 of 282
Quote:
Originally Posted by Belleweather View Post
A lot of it isn't 'employers', it's HR. We just hired someone in our department and since I'm next in line for my manager's job I was intimately involved for the first time in the process. We wrote up the job description and skills, but our HR recruiter posted the add -- and added a ton of education and certification requirements that had nothing to do with the job and actually kept us from finding the right candidate. We really wanted industry experience more than anything else. He listed the job as requiring a paralegal degree and preferring a JD. Which meant we got a crap ton of newly minted baby lawyers who didn't know anything about our industry and really wanted to be litigators and no one with the industry experience we wanted. HR INSISTED that we couldn't post the job with a less intense education requirement, so we interviewed for six months until we finally found someone with a paralegal degree and a brain and hired her. If she ever quits, I will cry.
Someone gave me some good advice about job hunting that relates to this. He said that the job requirements are the employer's wish list and even if you don't completely qualify go ahead and apply because there is a good chance that they won't find a candidate with all of the wished for qualifications. In this economy this may not be so much true as employers can pick and choose, but most of the time this is true.
post #251 of 282
Quote:
Originally Posted by indie View Post
You should understand that you are damn lucky that your parents paid for you. Having that opportunity would have changed my life. Changed it completely. And if that had happened to my husband too then, well, I can't even imagine how easy our lives would be now. Just count your blessings and try not to judge those of us who at 18 were not world wise and only knew that everyone was telling us that an education would be the key to escaping poverty and that the loans would be easy to repay. I'm sorry now that I believed it. But I did and I can't go back and undo it.
Many others of us on this thread have explained that we went to college by paying for it ourselves, either through work, loans or a combination. We made our OWN opportunities, our own luck. (I was one of the ones who got loans - for college and grad school both - and yes, with belt-tightening, they WERE fairly "easy" to repay. If "easy" means "with a lot of dedication and sacrifice you can do it.") And yes, I was 18 when I began college.
post #252 of 282
Quote:
Originally Posted by indie View Post
You should understand that you are damn lucky that your parents paid for you. Having that opportunity would have changed my life. Changed it completely. And if that had happened to my husband too then, well, I can't even imagine how easy our lives would be now. Just count your blessings and try not to judge those of us who at 18 were not world wise and only knew that everyone was telling us that an education would be the key to escaping poverty and that the loans would be easy to repay. I'm sorry now that I believed it. But I did and I can't go back and undo it.
I didn't get any help and I came through without loans. I worked my ass off during school (36 hours/week as a computer tech... which was completely outside of my major... at minimum wage) and took classes during the summer when it was easy to get grants and scholarships. At 17, when I started college, I knew enough to get a book out of the library and read up on what I needed to know. Sorry if this sounds harsh but we all have the same access to the same information. Anyone can learn the basics of anything (including financing their education) if they take the time to be anything more than willfully ignorant.
post #253 of 282
My father is a university prof, so I got free tuition, but certainly college is far more expensive than JUST tuition.. my parents didn't live anywhere near me, so dorm money, food, books, lab fees, etc I still had to pay for myself.. to give this some bearing, 1 semester of tuition was about equal to 3 months of dorm rent..
post #254 of 282
Quote:
Originally Posted by velochic View Post
I didn't get any help and I came through without loans. I worked my ass off during school (36 hours/week as a computer tech... which was completely outside of my major... at minimum wage) and took classes during the summer when it was easy to get grants and scholarships. At 17, when I started college, I knew enough to get a book out of the library and read up on what I needed to know. Sorry if this sounds harsh but we all have the same access to the same information. Anyone can learn the basics of anything (including financing their education) if they take the time to be anything more than willfully ignorant.

Wow, I'm sure you didn't mean it that way, but it came off as rather harsh and judgmental.:

I am so tired of this "Well, you just didn't work hard enough." attitude. My husband worked damned hard and still came out with student loans. I'm not saying we should be bailed out, but some of the attitudes I've seen on this thread are really insulting.
post #255 of 282
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maeve View Post
Wow, I'm sure you didn't mean it that way, but it came off as rather harsh and judgmental.:

I am so tired of this "Well, you just didn't work hard enough." attitude. My husband worked damned hard and still came out with student loans. I'm not saying we should be bailed out, but some of the attitudes I've seen on this thread are really insulting.
It wasn't judgemental... but yes, it was harsh. The point is that we all have access to information to educate ourselves out these things. It's not about "hard work", although that is important. Yeah... it takes some effort to get out of college without a mountain of debt. But it can be done. (And I did not receive financial aid because my father would not disclose his income.) I'm tired of hearing "Oh, I was 18... didn't know what I was doing..." Baloney... if you're old enough to enter a higher institution of learning, you damned well be old enough to understand the responsibility of debt.
post #256 of 282
He understood the responsibility of debt, which is why he did not go to a more expensive school, but sometimes shit happens in life that you don't see coming. (and we aren't asking for help btw, but I understand that there are people who need it)

I think all some posters were trying to say is that if tptb really want to make a difference, then perhaps helping people other than just the rich/corps/etc might be a good start.


*And while many posts on this thread may not have meant to come off as judgmental, they certainly came across that way. Reminds me of some of my Republican in-laws who have the attitude of screw the poor, they should just work harder.
post #257 of 282
Medical debt... everyone should have an alternative to dealing with this. Whether that is bailout, socialized medicine or some other remedy. Our medical future (and our children's medical future) is one thing we have little control over. Everything else is a factor of how we live and make decisions. People should not be bailed out for poor judgement or making assumptions.
post #258 of 282
I'm not looking for a bailout, nor do I expect one to come for student loans.

However, I can understand how people can be surprised by the far-reaching effects of debt. I'm one of them.

I *totally* get that it's my money to pay back. I have every intention of doing so. It's just that it sometimes feels harsh to have people sit and say, "well, you fool! How could you not have known?"

Well, there are lots of ways that you could not have known. For me, my parents were not.good.with.money.at.all. It was normal and expected that everyone was in some level of debt. My dad's own student loans were repaid by garnishment. Hello!!! Not good with money.

As an adult, I can see how debt limits your choices, and I have made steps to break that debt cycle (my people were sharecroppers; the cycle goes way back). However, that's something that I honestly didn't know at 18 (or 22). It took me being an adult, paying my own way, to get that lesson.

My dh is the first in his family to graduate from college. His parents didn't put much emphasis on not going into debt, because they had never been in debt themselves. They (and he) assumed that he would pay his loans off quickly. Life got in the way, and that didn't happen.

Once again...not looking for a handout. Just the understanding that just because you get into trouble with student loans doesn't mean that you are stupid. Naive, yes. Uninformed, yes. Woefully ignorant, absolutely. Will you end up in your 30s wishing that you could redo your 20s? Probably. But not stupid.
post #259 of 282
I am very surprised at the number of people who are essentially saying, "Well, I got through college with little debt, so anyone else should be able to do it, too." DH and I came out of college with very little debt, but I would never, ever presume that people will get the breaks we did.

A year's tuition at our alma mater in 2002? Less than $3000. Now? Over $8000. Four years of tuition has increased from $12K to $32K in less than a decade. At the "cheap state school." There is simply no way in h*** that DH and I could make it as students today without considerable debt.

I am all for personal responsibility and making sure students are educated about debt. But let's at least be realistic about the playing field here. It is NOT the same playing field it was a decade or two or three ago, and to pretend otherwise is ridiculous and insulting.
post #260 of 282
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maeve View Post
Wow, I'm sure you didn't mean it that way, but it came off as rather harsh and judgmental.:

I am so tired of this "Well, you just didn't work hard enough." attitude. My husband worked damned hard and still came out with student loans. I'm not saying we should be bailed out, but some of the attitudes I've seen on this thread are really insulting.


I also want to clarify something I said earlier because it's been pointed out to me that it came off as if I was saying women who use daycare are letting someone else raise their children. That wasn't at all what I meant.

What I meant was, the way the welfare to work system is, they don't care if poor women have to leave their children in daycare for 8 hours or more in addition to the time they spend in school, just so long as welfare mothers are seen as 'earning' what they're 'given.' It's a horrible demeaning system that shortchanges children and doesn't help anybody in the long run, but it makes some holier than thou haves feel better about keeping their thumbs on the have nots.

When I was putting my ds in 'daycare' from 5:45am to at least 8 or 9pm 6 to 7 days a week, I could hardly say I was raising him. But it sure made those bureaucrats happy to know I was crawling for those crumbs they gave me those 2 months. God forbid someone who accepts food stamps or a single welfare check should spend a few minutes a day interacting with her children lest she be seen as not trying hard enough.

Meanwhile, we give our tax dollars to wealthy men with corporate jets, and all they had to do was stick their hands out. That makes no sense to me at all. Women and children are expected to be humiliated for being poor, but wealthy men can squander our tax dollars and we aren't supposed to even look down our noses at them because it's just business.

And if you think student loans should be forgiven, you're irresponsible. Because everyone knows only the rich get out of paying their debts. YK, the people who could afford to pay outright for school in the first place? It's probably easy when you know anytime your business gets in trouble you can get a government bailout, unlike the little guys who just go under.

What a world we live in.
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