Copper - Page 4

[tanyalynn]

Originally Posted by momofmine

But we eat a TON of animal products, so how is it possible we are deficient in zinc? Yet I think we are.

So is the above saying that even zinc picolinate isn't good? What about the wateroz zinc? Would that be an aqueous source? Maybe this would be the best one then:

http://wateroz.jeffotto.com/products/zinc.htm

This is what mtn.mama mentioned either she or T takes.

But if you really add up how much zinc is in the meat you eat, it's not shockingly high, I'd bet. Thing is, although the best sources of zinc are animal products, the amount we need depends either on great zinc sources (oysters, which we're not eating) or on smaller amounts that have gotten lost due to processing or conventional farming practices. And that's just to get enough day-to-day, if you start out with a deficiency, I think that unless you're willing to seriously eat your oysters, you need to supplement to get caught up.

Even as an omnivore, when I added up the milligrams of zinc in the foods we eat, it was not a dead-surety we'd get enough for daily needs. This, like magnesium, is why so many people are deficient. They're two of the minerals that are most dependent on smaller amounts in other foods, or mineral-rich water for magnesium, and processing and quality issues (and phytic acid, for zinc) really matter. Other minerals aren't affected as much, but something's got to be the first to show the imbalance in the way we live and the way we eat (I mean for generations, not what's for dinner tonight).

Thx for the link on the book.

[Theloose]

So here's an interesting data point:
BIL came over yesterday, and I had him taste my zinc sulfate. He's the first person to actually detect anything besides plain water. What makes this interesting is that he's a vegetarian, so his dietary ratio has got to be way skewed towards copper. He's not into vitamins at all, either, and eats his fair share of junk.

I think how we excrete copper has much, much more to do with zinc deficiency than we've been thinking.

[Metasequoia]

I was rereading some of Amanda's stuff on B vitamins & saw this about zinc:

..doses of 350 mg or more of supplemental folic acid can reduce your ability to absorb zinc

I know this is the copper thread, but we've been discussing zinc too.

Amanda recommended getting folate from diet rather than supps if you're trying to rebuild your zinc.

[tanyalynn]

Originally Posted by whoMe

So here's an interesting data point:
BIL came over yesterday, and I had him taste my zinc sulfate. He's the first person to actually detect anything besides plain water. What makes this interesting is that he's a vegetarian, so his dietary ratio has got to be way skewed towards copper. He's not into vitamins at all, either, and eats his fair share of junk.

I think how we excrete copper has much, much more to do with zinc deficiency than we've been thinking.

Interesting. Copper excretion seems really related to liver and gallbladder health. And basically all of us have liver issues, at a minimum.

Or... he's just on his way to where we are, since I tend to think that we're just at one end of the spectrum. Did he think it was sorta icky, or was it a really strong reaction, denoting actual healthy zinc levels? He is male, and I think a lot of us have ended up quite depleted due to the whole pregnancy/nursing thing. I've wondered if a lot of health problems that women more prone to are mostly because of the increased nutritional demands on women.

[lil_miss_understood]

Originally Posted by Metasequoia

I was rereading some of Amanda's stuff on B vitamins & saw this about zinc:

I know this is the copper thread, but we've been discussing zinc too.

Amanda recommended getting folate from diet rather than supps if you're trying to rebuild your zinc.

I wonder if it is specifically folic acid or all forms of folate? Would folinic acid or the 5-methyltetrahydrofolate forms of folate cause the same issues? And I wonder what she would recommend for those of us who have MTHFR mutations that require double (if not more) the daily requirement of folate....

[tanyalynn]

Originally Posted by JacquelineR

I wonder if it is specifically folic acid or all forms of folate? Would folinic acid or the 5-methyltetrahydrofolate forms of folate cause the same issues? And I wonder what she would recommend for those of us who have MTHFR mutations that require double (if not more) the daily requirement of folate....

I think this is the problem many of us face, we're deficient on everything under the sun. I think just separating (for things that are sorta time-dependent, like calcium and zinc) and planning to supplement more than other people need to.

Meta--whoMe was finding a B-complex with folate that you may be interested in, I think it was in the Chat Thread. I know you wanted some supps, and it makes sense, but since a normal multi wasn't seeming like a good fit given a) your diet, and b) your current supps (like the CLO), maybe a subset of what The Mood Cure person recommended, maybe sorta more whoMe's approach of a small set of supps, rather than something like me, with high doses of just about everything.

If you want help sorting through what's in the supps your book recommends, and what maybe you can skip and what you shouldn't (and maybe folate, regardless of what the book says), let me/us know, we can probably help (PM or a dedicated thread).

[Theloose]

Originally Posted by TanyaLopez

Interesting. Copper excretion seems really related to liver and gallbladder health. And basically all of us have liver issues, at a minimum.

Or... he's just on his way to where we are, since I tend to think that we're just at one end of the spectrum. Did he think it was sorta icky, or was it a really strong reaction, denoting actual healthy zinc levels? He is male, and I think a lot of us have ended up quite depleted due to the whole pregnancy/nursing thing. I've wondered if a lot of health problems that women more prone to are mostly because of the increased nutritional demands on women.

Yeah, the primary route for copper excretion is the bile. I don't think I have significant bile issues though, at least not enough to explain why my zinc isn't in better shape.

He had the 'delayed taste sensation' where it was water at first, but after a second, he was like 'woah, there's something more there.' The interesting thing about him is that he's ALWAYS done his own thing, and doesn't seem to let anyone else's expectations get in his way. I'm wondering if that's protected him from a lot of stress/adrenal issues?