Cow's Milk, Gluten, Corn, Soy

[kjbrown92]

What do these 4 foods have in common?

From DogtorJ (http://dogtorj.net/id26.html)

The allergies to these four foods (gluten grains, cow's milk, soy, and corn) are formed at the time the damage to the gut is taking place. These four foods are the top human, dog, and cat allergens for very good reason. They are the primary food allergens- those that do harm to the gut and elicit an immune response in the process. All other foods allergens are secondary to this damage, drawing an immune response as they pass through the damaged gut. This is part of the "leaky gut syndrome" and is the accepted pathophysiology of adulthood food allergens in celiac disease, not a theory. Secondary food allergies to eggs, peanuts, shellfish, tree nuts, tropical fruits, etc. result from damage done to the natural barriers of the intestine caused by the primary food allergens (the “big 4”).

So is it strange, though I thought DS could have corn, and he did for 8 months, he has NOT added any foods back in (in other words, they've all failed and I had to take out a few others). And DD2 reacted to all 4, so they were eliminated for her, and she HAS been able to add foods back in?

So maybe now that I've taken corn out for him, he'll start healing as well.

I wanted to share this because DogtorJ (a veternarian celiac etc.) might be on to something. What if all food intolerances are based on those FOUR foods? What if those 4 CAUSE everything else?

I took 3 out of 4 out of my diet in July and my back pain decreased enough to get off my painkillers, though I did still take ibuprofin a few times a week. After WuWei reminded me about the DogtorJ site (I actually had seen it as it related to my dog's allergies more than a year ago) and then I took corn out too (hard as that was for me, because I crave Tostitos like an addict) a week ago, my back has improved even more. I haven't taken a single ibuprofin since then. Usually my back is much worse when I have a UTI (my back seems to be my weak spot) and my back hasn't hurt AT ALL since I went off corn.

For some reason I find it HUGE. These 4 foods cause ALL OTHER INTOLERANCES. Can that be true? Is it possible?

If it is true, then can you ever go back to eating them?

[tanyalynn]

The going back thing is interesting (well, relevant, cause the whole topic is extremely interesting). I'm starting to try to transition us to a paleo-type diet, obviously continuing no gluten and no dairy, but removing grains and legumes in general. Not sure about eggs yet (hopefully that's temporary).

I've been wondering if, essentially, taking out newer foods, which often seem to be more problematic, will take stress off our bodies and make healing easier. And then can most people add some or all of this back in? Can some of us not add any in? I know some people do diets like this long-term and seem quite passionate about it. I'm wondering if it will just be guess-and-check, probably over the course of several years.

[Catt75]

Interesting information. This would make it a little easier when doing an ED to start by eliminating those 4 and seeing if things get better.

Any idea how long it takes each of those items to get out of your breastmilk and the little one's system. I think Dairy can be 2weeks to a month???

[Chinese Pistache]

That's fascinating. I wonder how it relates to an infant who already has a permeable gut. The damage being done has to be more than just creating a permeable gut, since that's already there. I wonder what that "more" is to create an allergic response.

[kjbrown92]

are adult leaky guts different from infant leaky guts?

[tanyalynn]

I just realized something. Although my son (I think/hope) is only having problems with gluten, dairy, and soy (and soy is the least problematic), a fair number of ASD kids have corn issues as well. I often wonder if ASD issues are an amalgamation of all the things that we, as a society (with our foods/toxins/lifestyle) are prone to, and my son's less affected than some, but really the big difference is intensity. It seems like the answers from the health/biomed ASD world can be pulled back into other, less complicated problems.

[Chinese Pistache]

Originally Posted by TanyaLopez

I just realized something. Although my son (I think/hope) is only having problems with gluten, dairy, and soy (and soy is the least problematic), a fair number of ASD kids have corn issues as well. I often wonder if ASD issues are an amalgamation of all the things that we, as a society (with our foods/toxins/lifestyle) are prone to, and my son's less affected than some, but really the big difference is intensity. It seems like the answers from the health/biomed ASD world can be pulled back into other, less complicated problems.

Yes, and many celiac's also have problems with corn. I do think there is a genetic susceptibility for some ASD kids that is triggered by the assaults of our modern world. Not to say that ASD kids wouldn't still have been neurotypical, but I think the degree would be lessened. I mean, just look at the improvements many kids make going gfcf. I recently got in touch with old friend of mine whose ds was diagnosed with autism. She had gone gfcf that month and was astounded at the difference. He hadn't made eye contact until she put him on that diet (he's 3.5 yrs).

[lil_miss_understood]

Just subbing.

[Thystle]

But what if you are not allergic to those four?








On a side note:

I do know that most feedlot cattle are fed soy/corn/grains and that can show up in their milk and meat.

[kjbrown92]

Originally Posted by Thystle

But what if you are not allergic to those four?

On a side note:

I do know that most feedlot cattle are fed soy/corn/grains and that can show up in their milk and meat.

What DogtorJ is saying (I think) is that if you have food intolerances, you have to get rid of those 4 because they're CAUSING the gut permeability which allows you to have more food intolerances. So no matter what, you had to take those 4 out (he actually advocates taking out all the glutamate-aspartate in your diet, including most legumes).

[nalo]

Originally Posted by kjbrown92

are adult leaky guts different from infant leaky guts?

I don't think the mechanism of the leaky-ness is probably any different, just the fact that the infant gut is supposed to be leaky and the adult gut is not. I assume the way the proteins get into the bloodstream is the same. But, I really have no idea....just my opinion/guess. Helpful?


ETA: I have known MANY people who are allergic to peanuts only. So this wouldn't jive with the theory, unless one would say they are also allergic to one of those 4 things you mention but just don't realize it.

[kjbrown92]

Originally Posted by nalo

ETA: I have known MANY people who are allergic to peanuts only. So this wouldn't jive with the theory, unless one would say they are also allergic to one of those 4 things you mention but just don't realize it.

I think this is an intolerance mechanism, not allergy. Since leaky gut is mainly an intolerance thing.

[tanyalynn]

From CP's thread, I was struck--if I remember correctly, the only people _not_ sensitive to milk were the ones with peanut and/or tree nut allergies.

And Kathy, you are either a genius or a witch... my son has not slept well the past few nights. We're in a mode of more reactions, and although there are likely small traces of soy oil around, I don't think that's what's going on. I am going to go nuts (and possibly hunt you down) if it's because of the extra bag of corn chips (new kind, and lots more than usual) that he's sleeping bad. For a minute, I tried to convince myself this was just a weird fluke, but in reality, with the mag and the melatonin, and now that he's not teething, he sleeps well. He doesn't have restless, wakeful nights like the last three.

Sometimes the timely stuff that just comes to me is less than wonderful.

[kjbrown92]

Originally Posted by TanyaLopez

And Kathy, you are either a genius or a witch...

I'm the good witch of the east. But it's WuWei who gets the credit here. She's the one who pointed me back to DogtorJ.

[Chinese Pistache]

Originally Posted by kjbrown92

I think this is an intolerance mechanism, not allergy. Since leaky gut is mainly an intolerance thing.

I don't know if I agree. I think leaky gut is the cause of both IgG and IgE allergies. In babies, the cause of their allergies is the mom's leaky gut, not their own necessarily, but still, leaky gut is what get's the proteins into their bodies in the first place (just as feeding them solids directly would be more likely to cause allergies).

[Chinese Pistache]

Originally Posted by TanyaLopez

From CP's thread, I was struck--if I remember correctly, the only people _not_ sensitive to milk were the ones with peanut and/or tree nut allergies.

Yes, that was so strange wasn't it? Not sure if this has any relevance, but this article discusses how peanut allergic people lack a particular enzyme to digest peanuts: http://www.thestar.com/News/article/290650

[WuWei]

Originally Posted by kjbrown92

If it is true, then can you ever go back to eating them?

I believe it has to do with whether those proteins are undigested or not, more so than the actual proteins as the concern. So, if you are digesting the corn, maybe you are tolerating it if your gut isn't leaking "too much". But, it does sound like a cumulative effect of undigested proteins damaging the gut, from my perspective.

So, healing the gut AND digesting the proteins before they reach the gut, seems the most important first step, imo. That leads back to the stomach acid and pink pee. And again, I have been 'too busy' about my kefir (shhussh, don't tell anyone I said that) and I've been getting slightly pink pee!

Of course, historically, we only ate "predigested" grains in the way of soaking them to break down the phytic acid with an acid medium. So, perhaps, the stomach acid alone isn't "adequate" for some folks to get fully digested proteins of corn, soy, wheat, dairy. But, I'd venture that with the soaking grains, correct nutrient absorption (HCl), and gut microbials (probitoics), the leaky gut wouldn't recur.

Pat

[WuWei]

After reading the rest of the thread, it seems that the chain of events for nurslings is different, since their guts already "leak".

But, those four proteins are HARD for the (adult) human to digest. Period. Some of us have more stomach acid, so we may be more effective at digesting those four proteins. And some (dare say, most nowadays) of the food proteins are GMO-wheat, GMO-soy, GMO-corn; pasteurized, homogenized, antibiotic and growth hormone treated dairy which are FED GMO-corn.

Dh and ds don't have the same issues with soaked wheat, fermented soy, organic corn, or raw dairy.

With babies, if the mama's gut is damaged due to undigested proteins of those four, then baby is more apt to get OTHER undigested proteins *leaking* into the breastmilk, assuming her stomach acid isn't adequately digesting them.

do the pink pee test.

Pat

[kjbrown92]

I've never had pink pee and we eat a lot of beets. None of the kids have had pink pee either. Red poop, yes. Pee, no.

So if we do ever go back to eating these things, it'll be as Pat said: fermented soy, soaked grains (I've got to figure that one out still), not sure about the corn because it seems so pivotal, and not sure about dairy either (we have a raw source but I'm worried that DS will always react to it).

[lil_miss_understood]

Originally Posted by kjbrown92

I've never had pink pee and we eat a lot of beets. None of the kids have had pink pee either. Red poop, yes. Pee, no.

So if we do ever go back to eating these things, it'll be as Pat said: fermented soy, soaked grains (I've got to figure that one out still), not sure about the corn because it seems so pivotal, and not sure about dairy either (we have a raw source but I'm worried that DS will always react to it).

If you have Native American ancestry, corn (non-GMO) is not likely to cause a problem, but soy, dairy and wheat are likely to be very bad.