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Is there a reasonable limit to RFing? - Page 2

post #21 of 47
Thread Starter 
Thanks for the replies.

I can say with certainty that she won't be 30lbs before she's 3. She was ~16lbs at 1 and 23lbs at 2 and I don't she's put on much, if any weight since then.

It might be the way our car and carseat are configured, but I know that she can't see much out her windows. I've stuck my head in the carseat, and I sure can't see anything.

We also can't reach her to hand her anything. That makes it a big PITA to and from daycare when she wants more snack. We could reach her with her old carseat (Titan, which was in an accident), and that worked well. But the triumph is so huge that we can't reach around.

She will almost definately be RFing until the fall. But I have to admit the snow was really annoying this winter. She'd have snow on her boots, and even if we'd try to get it off there would still be some. Then it would melt in the car and run down her legs, and she'd cry about the cold water. It also meant the carseat cover was always getting soaked (like if she played in the snow for a few minutes before getting in the car). Then it would freeze and only melt when she sat in it causing her clothes to get wet. She also couldn't climb in with her boots on, so we had to lift her in. And we were always bumping her head.

I guess we'll decide before next winter.
post #22 of 47
How about a "boots off in the car" rule? Seems like that would solve a lot of your problems. Would a different position help with handing her stuff? I can hand my DD stuff in her TF even with the headrest on, and it's huge. She needs to be on the passenger side though, it's a lot harder to reach her if she's in the center position. RF on the passenger side is MUCH safer than FF in the center...
post #23 of 47
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGirls View Post
How about a "boots off in the car" rule? Seems like that would solve a lot of your problems. Would a different position help with handing her stuff? I can hand my DD stuff in her TF even with the headrest on, and it's huge. She needs to be on the passenger side though, it's a lot harder to reach her if she's in the center position. RF on the passenger side is MUCH safer than FF in the center...
It's much too cold here for most of the winter for her to take her boots off in the car. That would also mean I would have to take off my gloves to put them back on her before getting her out of the car.

She's RFing on the drivers side. Driver's side is safer than passenger side and we can't get a good install in the center. The back seat has a hump in the middle.

As I said - we're starting to think about what we're going to do next winter. this summer seems pretty settled. With all the road trips it will be easier for her and the DVD player if she's RFing (unless that causes her to get carsick - and we'll deal with that when we get there).
post #24 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by AliveMama View Post
It's getting to the point where I'm feeling weird about it. I'm not going to change just because that's what everyone else is doing, but I'm definitely feeling the difference.

But this isn't the last time this is going to come up. She'll still be in a 5 point harness long after her friends are out of boosters... (The law is only until 4 here).
FWIW, I'd rather be weird and keep my kids as safe as possible. DD3 is about the size of your DD and still happily rear facing. She can see just fine as she's always talking about the cars, trees, trucks, or birds that she's seeing. She just sees these things after everyone else. lol!! DD2 is 6yo and still in a 5-pt harness and will be until she outgrows the seat. She has probably 3" of torso height before she's too big for the seat (and 40-lbs of weight, but she's going to outgrow the height first for sure).

Quote:
Originally Posted by AliveMama View Post
It's also getting more complicated with getting a ride from other people. My sister has 3 carseats and a booster in her van. But they are all FFing. So everytime it would be nice to go somewhere all together I have to decide whether or not to hold firm and take 2 cars (or not go if I don't have the car) or bend and let DD ride FFing. If I'm OK with it for short trips (which I am now) then why not all the time? My BFF has a DD about the same size as my DD. There have been times when it's nice for her to pick us up. But that seat's FFing as well.
I do let my DD2 (6yo) ride in a booster seat for carpools, but I won't do it full time. I know she's safer in a 5pt harness so she's in one in my car, but for carpool, I figure she's safer in a booster than a quickly and improperly installed 5pt harness. She's the youngest in the carpool so none of the other parents have 5pt harness seats installed in their cars anymore. I do hear your logic of if it's okay once in a while it should be okay all the time though I've decided that logic that didn't work for us concerning DD2 and 5pt vs. booster.

Good luck figuring it all out.
post #25 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by AliveMama View Post
It's much too cold here for most of the winter for her to take her boots off in the car. That would also mean I would have to take off my gloves to put them back on her before getting her out of the car.
Okay, I live in the Canadian prairies. It's darn cold here. Bitter wind chill and it's not uncommon for temps to be as low as -30°C (-22°F) without the windchill factored in! Now that I've got that clear removing boots is a great solution and we do it everyday. DD has a pair of boots that I can easily slip on and off with gloves on. We take a small fleece blanket with us (we don't leave it in the vehicle since it's too cold to do so) and wrap it around her feet in the vehicle. It might be worth a try for you. It sure is better than snow, water, and slush all over her seat and yours.

Also, this issue doesn't get resolved FF. I've had a FF kid and she would balance her boots on the edge of the vehicle seat and it would get soaked, or she'd kick her feet into the seat in front of her and spray snow and water everywhere. After I realize it was happening, we started a boot removal routine with her. And it was much harder to have a blanket stay wrapped around her feet FF! At least RF it doesn't fall off onto the dirty floor.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AliveMama View Post
She's RFing on the drivers side. Driver's side is safer than passenger side and we can't get a good install in the center. The back seat has a hump in the middle.
Is it the driver handing her things? or the passenger? If it's the driver, can you hand her something over the top of her seat? I believe the True Fit is taller than the EFTA, and I am able to reach back and hand DD things over the top of the seat when I am driving (well I do it when I am stopped at a stop sign or a red light ).
post #26 of 47
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TechnoGranola View Post
Is it the driver handing her things? or the passenger? If it's the driver, can you hand her something over the top of her seat? I believe the True Fit is taller than the EFTA, and I am able to reach back and hand DD things over the top of the seat when I am driving (well I do it when I am stopped at a stop sign or a red light ).
Right now she doesn't get handed much of anything. I refuse to do it while driving (and I do most of the driving) because I believe that accident avoidance is very important. DH, who is often in the passenger seat, isn't very tall.

When we do hand her things it's around the side. We have a Corolla and it wouldn't work to hand her things over the top.

What's mainly happened is that she's discovered how to "fling" things. So her empty snack trap gets flung into the front seat. And it's annoying to get pegged in the head while driving. (And yes, that meant that for a couple days we tried not giving her a snack, but that really sucked for all involved because she's hungry after daycare and we aren't allowed to bring food into the building so she can't eat before we leave).

Right now we're not changing anything.

But the stories are interesting. There is an interesting mix of problems being resolved or not through turning a kid around.
post #27 of 47
i plan to keep DD rearfacing until she hits the weight or height limit. the only exception to this will be if we have a new baby. we can't have 2 rear-facing seats in our car because our car is too small. so if she hasn't hit the weight and height limits, we'll still turn her for a new baby
post #28 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by AliveMama View Post
She recently moved up to room 2 at daycare. And I keep seeing kids in room 1 (18 to 28 months) who are FFing and she's still RFing. I haven't seen a single other RFing carseat that wasn't for an infant sibling.

It's getting to the point where I'm feeling weird about it. I'm not going to change just because that's what everyone else is doing, but I'm definitely feeling the difference.

But this isn't the last time this is going to come up. She'll still be in a 5 point harness long after her friends are out of boosters... (The law is only until 4 here).
I belong to a great, great natural parenting group here where I live. With lots of mamas who breastfeed until kids are 2-3, eat organic, AP, etc. They are very concerned with their kids lives and health. I am still 1 of the very few who extended rearfaces their child. I know of 2 who FFed their under 1 kids - 1 was 11 months and the other was only 6 months. I just don't get it myself, but I will still keep DD RFing because it is safer.
post #29 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by AliveMama View Post
Sadly we're not in Sweden (most places in "Europe" don't RF until 5 - my family in France gets their kids out of car seats by 3 or 4).

Obviously she's "fine" with it and of course she's safe.

But I'm interested in the other factors. I worry that she's missing out on seeing things. I have very fond memories of watching signs fly towards me and zoom away. I also was able to navigate my parents to my grandparent's house (20 minutes away) when I was 2.5... But I could see where I was going. It makes me slightly sad that she's missing that.

It's also getting more complicated with getting a ride from other people. My sister has 3 carseats and a booster in her van. But they are all FFing. So everytime it would be nice to go somewhere all together I have to decide whether or not to hold firm and take 2 cars (or not go if I don't have the car) or bend and let DD ride FFing. If I'm OK with it for short trips (which I am now) then why not all the time? My BFF has a DD about the same size as my DD. There have been times when it's nice for her to pick us up. But that seat's FFing as well.
As I said, I have let DD ride FFing in certain situations. She is almost 3, 30 lbs, etc. and I am fine with it. I know she is SAFER in our car riding RFing and that is where she is 90% of the time. The other 10% she is FFing in someone else's car and I am totally fine with it. She is still safe, but not the safest she can be.
post #30 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzchen View Post
We will be turning my almost three year old around in April or May (his birthday is in April.) He is 28 lbs, 39 inches tall and has about an inch and a quarter of shell above his head. We'll be turning his Marathon bit early for the following reasons:

-It takes a lot of maneuvering to get him into the car with the seat rear facing and 9 time out of ten we bump something (usually his head ) on the way it or out no matter how careful we are.
-He is all leg and has literally run out of room rear facing. I know the internet experts that be think this is impossible, but he is seriously at the point where his knees/feet are jammed into the back of the seat once he is buckled in. We currently have him dangling his legs over the sides of the MA, but if the trip is more than 10 minutes or so he ends up crying and screaming that his legs are asleep.
-He has been complaining that his hips hurt whenever we put him in the seat.

We have been to two CPST (both of whom support ERF) now to see if changing the angle of the seat would give him more leg room and both suggested that we turn him forward facing since he is obviously uncomfortable and we really have a very limited time left to rear face anyways.
FWIW, I've found that the Britax convertibles have the LEAST amount of leg room rfing. Which is kind of ironic since they are the cream of the crop when it comes to car seats. But my ds has loads more room in his radian.
post #31 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by DahliaRW View Post
FWIW, I've found that the Britax convertibles have the LEAST amount of leg room rfing. Which is kind of ironic since they are the cream of the crop when it comes to car seats. But my ds has loads more room in his radian.
Yeah, I wish we had know that when we shelled out the $$$ for two Marathons. We actually bought a True Fit when they first came out and were dirt cheap so that he could rear face a little longer but the adjuster strap is completely impossible to use when combined with the slope of my backseat, so it lives in DH's car (where it is a pain, but useable.)
post #32 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by AliveMama View Post
She's RFing on the drivers side. Driver's side is safer than passenger side and we can't get a good install in the center. The back seat has a hump in the middle.
You could try moving her to the passenger side. The difference between the two sides is pretty much negligible especially compared to the difference between rf and ff.

-Angela
post #33 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by MommyKrista View Post
I'm halfway joking of course. It honestly sounds like you have your mind made up so go with it. If she is 3 or 4 and is tiny, that would be all the more reason to RF I would think. However, the biggest safety advantage in studies I've seen is up to two years old. Of course, RFing is still safer but not exponentially so like it is between 1-2 years.
My understanding is that the study that found this only looked at children up to two years old... so it's *unknown* what the difference is for children over 2. However, it is known that in other types of accidents, such as train derailments, with passengers facing both backward and forward, the rear-facing passengers (adults, mostly) have fewer and less severe injuries.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AliveMama View Post
She's RFing on the drivers side. Driver's side is safer than passenger side and we can't get a good install in the center.
More side-impact accidents hit the driver's side than passenger side. It's a small difference, but a difference. See the graphic about halfway down the page here: http://www.freewebs.com/sacredjourne...npreschool.htm In any event, PP was right; the difference is small.

Besides which, it's safer to load on the passenger side than the driver's side in many situations.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AliveMama View Post
What's mainly happened is that she's discovered how to "fling" things. So her empty snack trap gets flung into the front seat. And it's annoying to get pegged in the head while driving.
Uh. You think this will be *better* when she's FFing? ;-) When RFing, DS1 (who could pitch like a little leaguer at 9 months) would "fling" but we rarely got hit; things would bounce off the headrests or something. FFing, though, he'd usually aim for the radio, and things would bounce and hit us. This was slightly amusing, but mostly scary and dangerous to have things flung at us while driving. We had to pull over a few times before the rule about throwing while driving sunk in.
post #34 of 47
I also have a tiny 3.5 year old that is still riding RF in our car. She is about 26 lb and 35", and in a Britax Decathlon. I also have the mirror on the headrest so we can see each other, and she likes having her soft baby doll ride facing her in front of her (which could not happen if she was FF). I hope to keep her RF till at least age 4, and see what she weighs then. Her seat goes to 33 lb, so that is the limit for her. If she is beyond 4, I don't see the point buying a new seat for 2 more lb.
post #35 of 47
Lots of great replies I too was annoyed with the winter stuff, it's much easier now that it's spring, but now mud is the problem. I'm carrying DS to the car, as he fights getting his boots off (he loves his boots).

To me the reasonable limit would be when a child, over 2 and 30lbs, is frequently vocalizing their discomfort and/or pain, motion sickness, etc... I would not force a child who was truly uncomfortable (in pain, motion sick, etc.) to stay rear facing. I also won't weigh on the way out the door every day, so we'll turn once we get to 34lbs or so on an end of the day nakey weigh in (the like to get on the scale before bath time, add in a full belly and a wet diaper...). He's 31lbs right now, at 26 months but he is really short and all torso, his legs are no where near being an issue. I'm hoping we make it to 2 1/2 before he is too heavy.
post #36 of 47
DS is 3.5 and has been ff only for a couple of months now. He was getting close to the weight limit (33 lbs in his Marathon) so we turned him. He's still under 33 lbs, though - we could have left him rfing. At the rate that he's (not) gaining weight and as short as he is (still in 2T pants, with an occaisional 18-24 thrown in), he could probably be rearfacing at least until his 4th bday, expecially if we got a rfing to 35lb seat.

In any case, it never seemed weird to me, and I'm the only one who rearfaced that long that I know. Even most people who extended rearfaced that I know turned at around two or two and a half because their kids were so much bigger than ds (for example, dd hit 30 lbs at around 18 months. The seat she had at the time only rearfaced to 30, so that's when we turned her). DS was blissfully oblivious that there was any other way for him to sit (even though ds1 and dd were forward facing.)
post #37 of 47
Thread Starter 
Ack!

I'd forgotten about the mud. We still have snow on the ground and it's still below freezing.

Sometimes I'm really happy that I have a kid who will still be RFing for along time. Other times I wish she was a normal size and then I wouldn't have to worry about this.
post #38 of 47
A "normal size" (ie 50th percentile) child won't hit 35lb until age 3.5. Even my large size (80th percentile) child may make it to 3. So most kids really should be RF still at 2.5....
post #39 of 47
Thread Starter 
But for most kids there is an end in site. At 2.5 she's ~23/24 lbs. I can't really imagine (although I'm sure it will happen eventually) a time when she's 33lbs.

That 10lbs might take her another 2 or 3 years to gain given how she's grown so far. Maybe longer! My DH is short, so height won't be an issue. (She sat in my friends SafeSeat last week and she still fit the shell...)

Ultimately it is very likely that we will turn her around before she hits the limit of her seat. Probably because at some point it will become important to her.

But it's something I want to think about for along time before we do it so that we have an idea of the requirements for her, and the circumstances we would consider before turning the seat.
post #40 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGirls View Post
A "normal size" (ie 50th percentile) child won't hit 35lb until age 3.5. Even my large size (80th percentile) child may make it to 3. So most kids really should be RF still at 2.5....
That doesn't take height into account. My 18 mo dd is only 40th percentile for weight (and has been for almost a year now), but is 97th percentile for height. We only recently realized she's more torso than leg. She has another 2" or so in torso/head length before she's too tall for her Boulevard. I hope her legs will be what grow more in height but I do suspect she'll outgrow RF in her Blvd between 2 and 3, even though she may not hit 30 lbs by age 3.

I do understand where you're coming from, OP. I often find myself thinking, "Well, this this and that would be solved by turning her, wouldn't it be so much easier, etc etc" but then I make myself watch the crash test videos and I look at her slender little neck and body and realize there's no way I could turn her unless absolutely necessary. That said, if we did have another baby in the near future, I don't think we could fit two RF seats in our Aveo because of my tall, long-legged dh...but for now, I don't think that'll happen before dd outgrows RF by height (or before we get another vehicle, lol). I know it very often feels cut and dried here on MDC (RF is safer, that's that), but I do agree that sometimes there have to be other considerations (though what those considerations are and how important they are to a given family vary widely, obviously!).
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