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twilight - Page 33

post #641 of 654

Breaking Dawn

For those of you who have read Breaking Dawn, did anyone else wonder if Edward felt guilt that he brought the Volturi's attention on the Cullen family, Bella, Renesmee, and himself when he went to Italy to commit suicide by Volturi in his ill informed thinking that Bella was dead due to Jacob's intentionally unclear telephone conversation?

Or for that matter, that Jacob was guilty of making Edward think Bella was dead and in turn influencing Edward to irrationally commit suicide by traveling to Italy to expose himself before the Volturi because he could not live in a world without Bella?

Had these two acted more rationally, and checked facts, then the Volturi would not have known of Bella or Renesmee.

I kept thinking of this while reading the last half of Breaking Dawn.
post #642 of 654
Interesting.
I didn't think of that while reading Breaking Dawn.
We get so little from Edward's pov once Bella turns that it's hard to tell. I don't think that he would blame Jacob at all though because I think that all of the events in New Moon he saw as his fault for his misguided attempt to protect Bella by leaving her.
The Volturi were already familiar with the Cullens since Carlisle was with them before, but I don't think that they knew about Alice and Edward's talents, so they wouldn't be looking to find a way to gather them into the Volturi. They would still probably do something once Irina made the false accusation of the immortal baby, but I'm sure that it wouldn't have involved EVERYONE. So things would have gone very differently that's for sure.
I wonder what will happen in the movie. I love how there actually isn't a huge battle at the end, but I think that the movie guys will have a hard time with that. What do you guys think??
Thanks for keeping this discussion going -- I get so happy when I see that the Twilight thread is at the top.
post #643 of 654
Actually I believe that Edward says in the books that the Volturi has wanted Edward and Alice for a long time. They knew about their gifts.

And I agree. Edward would never blame anyone else for what happened except himself. And since he knows what Jacob thinks he knows why he did what he did.

And yeah, there will definitely be a fight in BD. They shouldn't but they'll put it in for sure.
post #644 of 654
Quote:
Originally Posted by KYCat View Post
The Volturi were already familiar with the Cullens since Carlisle was with them before, but I don't think that they knew about Alice and Edward's talents, so they wouldn't be looking to find a way to gather them into the Volturi. They would still probably do something once Irina made the false accusation of the immortal baby, but I'm sure that it wouldn't have involved EVERYONE. So things would have gone very differently that's for sure.
I wonder what will happen in the movie. I love how there actually isn't a huge battle at the end, but I think that the movie guys will have a hard time with that. What do you guys think??
Thanks for keeping this discussion going -- I get so happy when I see that the Twilight thread is at the top.
I think you're right about the Volturi not knowing about Alice's and Edward's talents until the trip to Italy in New Moon. It is then that Aro finds out about their talents, as well as Bella's talent in her human state, and it's then that he has interest in adding Alice and Edward to the Volturi, eventually.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monarchgrrl View Post
Actually I believe that Edward says in the books that the Volturi has wanted Edward and Alice for a long time. They knew about their gifts.

And I agree. Edward would never blame anyone else for what happened except himself. And since he knows what Jacob thinks he knows why he did what he did.

And yeah, there will definitely be a fight in BD. They shouldn't but they'll put it in for sure.
Fight between Edward and Jacob in Breaking Dawn? Hmmm...maybe.

What I couldn't understand in Breaking Dawn (the book) is Bella's reaction to Jacob imprinting on Renesmee. She blamed him, at first, even though she knew from Eclipse that Jacob had explained that it was involuntary (Bella was fishing in Eclipse to see if Jacob had imprinted on her, or maybe the other way around).

I get that Bella felt that Renesmee was Edward's and hers alone, and not to be shared with Jacob, but I thought both Edward and Bella would know from Alice's vision and from Bella's inclinations all along that they were connected deeply that this was how it was to be.

I'm listening to the commentary on the Twilight dvd with the director, Robert Pattinson, and Kristin Stewart. Very interesting.
post #645 of 654
I don't know, I think it's hard to imagine that happening to your newborn child. When Bella found out, she'd only just met Renesmee herself.
post #646 of 654
Don't forget that Alice can't see Renesmee or Jacob because she can't see beings that she's never been. So I don't think that they had any foreshadowing that this would happen. Bella was drawn to Jacob during her pregnancty but her history just made it seem that it was her friendship/crush out of control. She knew of someone imprinting on a 2 year old but that still weirded her out and it wasn't her 2 year old. When my kids were babies my possessiveness was a little out of control and I would NOT have handled well anyone who thought that their input was anywhere near as important as mine. She loves Jacob and comes to terms with it but I totally get her initial reaction.
post #647 of 654
Quote:
Originally Posted by KYCat View Post
Don't forget that Alice can't see Renesmee or Jacob because she can't see beings that she's never been. So I don't think that they had any foreshadowing that this would happen. Bella was drawn to Jacob during her pregnancty but her history just made it seem that it was her friendship/crush out of control. She knew of someone imprinting on a 2 year old but that still weirded her out and it wasn't her 2 year old. When my kids were babies my possessiveness was a little out of control and I would NOT have handled well anyone who thought that their input was anywhere near as important as mine. She loves Jacob and comes to terms with it but I totally get her initial reaction.
Alice didn't see that coming at all. And even if Alice could have seen visions with these two, she only sees when someone decides something. With imprinting, nothing is decided. It happens when they first see each other and it's not their decision, so she wouldn't have seen it ahead of time anyway.

I wouldn't have handled it well, either. Not because of the weirdness of the man/baby thing but because of the fact that I just met my baby (after my husband could already read her mind and knew her) and now she already has this uncontrollable connection to someone else that isn't me. I would have freaked out!
post #648 of 654
Quote:
Originally Posted by KYCat View Post
Don't forget that Alice can't see Renesmee or Jacob because she can't see beings that she's never been. So I don't think that they had any foreshadowing that this would happen. Bella was drawn to Jacob during her pregnancty but her history just made it seem that it was her friendship/crush out of control. She knew of someone imprinting on a 2 year old but that still weirded her out and it wasn't her 2 year old. When my kids were babies my possessiveness was a little out of control and I would NOT have handled well anyone who thought that their input was anywhere near as important as mine. She loves Jacob and comes to terms with it but I totally get her initial reaction.
Alice tells Jacob in Breaking Dawn that he's involved with Renesmee in a deep way, and when he says that it's because of Bella, she says, no, it's something more, but she doesn't know exactly what.

My only point about Bella's reaction was that she knew that imprinting is involuntary...because Jake had described the process to her in Eclipse.
post #649 of 654
I see what you mean and I think that once she calms down, that's how she comes to terms with everything. Even though she is a very controlled newborn, she does seem to feel things very intensely, hence the attack on Jacob.

I don't mean to ever be argumentative I'm just thrilled to be talking Twilight with people who love the books too. Thanks!
post #650 of 654

Twilight versus New Moon versus Eclipse

Is it just me or are the Twilight and Eclipse films far superior to the New Moon film??

Is that what other fans think?

New Moon just does not seem as well put together as the other two. Not as polished maybe? The sound track isn't as fitting maybe? Or maybe it was the editing? I can't be sure, but it just doesn't move as easily. Maybe that is because the book is the conjoiner of the series.

I looked up to see if the same screenwriter and directors were used for all three. It is the same screenwriter, but different directors for all three. Does anyone know why different directors were used?

I thought the director of the first - Katherine Hardwicke - was really great. She really seemed to catch the mood of Twilight.
post #651 of 654
I think it depends on the fan.

I haven't seen Eclipse yet, but I did think New Moon was much better than Twilight. I liked Twilight because of the story that I knew from the books, but it's definitely not my favorite movie of the series.

They did use different directors for each one (I think Breaking Dawn has 1 director for both parts), I'm not sure why, but it's interesting to see the different takes on the books that each director has.
post #652 of 654
I think that Catherine Hardwicke really got the emotion of Twilight and conveyed that really well in the movie, but I know that others just thought that it was campy. I think that New Moon director Chris Weitz read many of the critiques of Twilight and knew that fans HATED when things were left out of the movies so he tried to keep everything in. Obviously it's not ALL in there but I think that trying to stuff it all in made for some flow problems, but I still love it. David Slade seemed to be trying to make a really good movie using the book and trying to keep stuff in, but not at the expense of the movie.
That all being said, I don't know how much control the directors have. I mean Melissa Rosenberg has been the screenwriter for all of the movies so maybe she's the one in control? But they do all have very different sensibilities. I was just catching my Twilight fever when they told Catherine Hardwicke that they were getting a new director for New Moon. I'm not sure why they did that, unless they were trying to appease all of the book fans who were displeased with Twilight the movie. (I saw the movie first so I was good.) I know that with New Moon and Eclipse, they needed two directors for the timetable they were looking at because Weitz had to be doing editing and "wrapping the film" and all that other stuff for New Moon while they were shooting Eclipse. I think that getting a director to do half of Breaking Dawn would be tricky so they got one for the whole thing, although I do think that this makes our wait longer since he can't wrap up the first half until the whole shoot is finished.
I was unsure of the different directors, but I like seeing the books through different styles. I lilke all of them.
post #653 of 654
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alyantavid View Post
I think it depends on the fan.

I haven't seen Eclipse yet, but I did think New Moon was much better than Twilight. I liked Twilight because of the story that I knew from the books, but it's definitely not my favorite movie of the series.
Really? Why?

I read a good LA Times article on the subject of the directors being changed. It basically theorized that Katherine Hartwicke is known as a gifted, indie filmmaker and signed on for Twilight because no one really knew how successful it would become. Then, when Summit wanted to churn out the sequel on a fast pace, they needed a director with a different style and direction.

I love how Katherine Hartwicke put together Twilight. I'm lukewarm on New Moon.

Another thing I read is that the make-up artist changed, and so the actors were presented differently. I think that comes across pretty clearly.
post #654 of 654
Quote:
Originally Posted by KYCat View Post
I think that Catherine Hardwicke really got the emotion of Twilight and conveyed that really well in the movie, but I know that others just thought that it was campy. I think that New Moon director Chris Weitz read many of the critiques of Twilight and knew that fans HATED when things were left out of the movies so he tried to keep everything in. Obviously it's not ALL in there but I think that trying to stuff it all in made for some flow problems, but I still love it. David Slade seemed to be trying to make a really good movie using the book and trying to keep stuff in, but not at the expense of the movie.
That all being said, I don't know how much control the directors have. I mean Melissa Rosenberg has been the screenwriter for all of the movies so maybe she's the one in control? But they do all have very different sensibilities. I was just catching my Twilight fever when they told Catherine Hardwicke that they were getting a new director for New Moon. I'm not sure why they did that, unless they were trying to appease all of the book fans who were displeased with Twilight the movie. (I saw the movie first so I was good.) I know that with New Moon and Eclipse, they needed two directors for the timetable they were looking at because Weitz had to be doing editing and "wrapping the film" and all that other stuff for New Moon while they were shooting Eclipse. I think that getting a director to do half of Breaking Dawn would be tricky so they got one for the whole thing, although I do think that this makes our wait longer since he can't wrap up the first half until the whole shoot is finished.
I was unsure of the different directors, but I like seeing the books through different styles. I lilke all of them.
Good points.

There's a really great LA Times article I found on the subject of changing directors from Twilight to New Moon.

I really liked Katherine Hartwicke's approach as I said earlier. But I thought New Moon was campier than Twilight! I also read that in review after review on Rotten Tomatoes.

I just listened to the commentary on Twilight from Katherine Hartwicke this past weekend and I found her so witty, artistic, and engaging. I saw her movie Thirteen ages and ages ago when it first came out. I'll have to revisit that and her other films.

Twilight to me didn't feel campy. It felt more Indie. New Moon to me felt sort of campy/slasherish almost. It was definitely darker in the setting and design, even the make-up.

I think that Katherine Hartwicke really thought about her characters and how to present them. ...like Bella moving in front of the fan to blow her scent towards Edward when she walked into the lab/classroom before being assigned to sit next to him. I don't think that is in the book.

I also think the grand entrance of the Cullen kids into the cafeteria is really well done. That was a more theatrical presentation than the book.

And the apple scene at the salad bar is really pretty cool, too.

So, I like how she played around with the script, but still kept the feel. I also liked the make-up way, way better in Twilight than New Moon, except for Bella.

New Moon didn't depart from the book as much, which may have been a gift to fans. It was more literal to me than an interpretation.

I liked Eclipse - it was well done, too, but it did depart from the book a little more than New Moon. There were many, many gifts to the fans in the dialogue that came more from the pop culture phenomenon of the series than from the books themselves.

So interesting!!
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