Food to meet all our Nutritional needs

[eastkygal]

I posted in the overall food forum and F&WM, but only got one response. I thought I would try getting more specific and post here. You mamas have been of great help to me. I posted a while back about being hungry alot after a period of not being hungry much at all. There were lots of suggestions and I increased fat intake and a little in the amount of food I ate. Things were better for awhile, but now I'm running into some things that I think point to my diet needing tweaked. I exercise 5 days a week for 1 hour. I am at my goal weight and would like to tone, and increase strength and endurance. I wouldn't mind losing another 5 pounds either.
I'm wondering if there should be some things in my diet even more increased to achieve this goal and to satisfy hunger. Again, I'm finding myself hungry (but not as much as before). During times when AF visits, I'm having horrible headaches. My hair is falling out even more now than directly postpartum and my baby will be 1 next month. I feel strong and generally healthy. I feel that my TF diet is working for me, I'm just not sure I'm doing all I need to do.
I'd like to make sure our diet is nutritionally sound for all of us. DH and I eat about the same, but he isn't as strictly TF when not at home as I am. He eats more than me by only a bit.

Currently:
Breakfast - 2 eggs, 2 sausage or 3/4 bacon, 1 cup of yogurt, coffee with half and half to make it very creamy sweetened with agave nectar or honey.
-or- 1 full bowl of oatmeal with sorghum, heavy butter, cinnamon, banana, 2 sausage or 3/4 bacon

Lunch - 1/2 cup or more of nuts (usually cashews) a Babybel cheese or some other cheese and water. I will sometimes add a banana, or eat a salad with tuna instead. Sometimes leftovers.

Dinner - meat, 2 veggies (butter, EVO, coconut oil or lard) and/or salad. Sometimes if we have a soup or roast or the like we will have cornbread with supper. I'll eat one piece with butter. We eat potatoes a lot.

After dinner snack - 1 cup kefir.
I take probiotics and prenatal vitamins.

[quietserena]

are you nursing still?

[eastkygal]

Yes, though mostly at night. I nurse about 4 times a day. I'm not sure if it is obvious how much butter I use on things and I am generous with my fats in cooking... maybe not as generous with the butter as I could be???

[mbravebird]

I have two thoughts -- first, that doesn't sound like a lot of food to me. I guess lunch seems a little light. Maybe I'm just a big eater, though.

Second, I wonder about adrenal fatigue. The hair falling out is one of the first things that happens to me when I am having some adrenal fatigue. Exercise can sometimes actually exacerbate adrenal fatigue. After bearing, birthing and nursing two babies, your adrenals have certainly been taxed -- maybe assessing how they're doing would be in order, and if they're overtaxed you can do some things in that arena to support yourself.

Can you get some liver into your diet? That would help with adrenals and with general health, and it's chock full of most every nutrient out there. If you don't like it as a meal, you can freeze it (raw) for two weeks, cut it up into pill-sized pieces, and pop a few of them a day just like pills. You don't taste them that way.

HTH...

[eastkygal]

Originally Posted by mbravebird

I have two thoughts -- first, that doesn't sound like a lot of food to me. I guess lunch seems a little light. Maybe I'm just a big eater, though.

Second, I wonder about adrenal fatigue. The hair falling out is one of the first things that happens to me when I am having some adrenal fatigue. Exercise can sometimes actually exacerbate adrenal fatigue. After bearing, birthing and nursing two babies, your adrenals have certainly been taxed -- maybe assessing how they're doing would be in order, and if they're overtaxed you can do some things in that arena to support yourself.

Can you get some liver into your diet? That would help with adrenals and with general health, and it's chock full of most every nutrient out there. If you don't like it as a meal, you can freeze it (raw) for two weeks, cut it up into pill-sized pieces, and pop a few of them a day just like pills. You don't taste them that way.

HTH...

Thanks... I tend to think it is more nutritional rather than food amount. I feel like I'm eating enough fat and food at one sitting without eating to the point where I feel really full. I am a food controller whether I'm overeating or eating just right or too little though. I feel like I'm doing good with the TF way of thinking though. I'll have to look into adrenal fatigue. My family has a big history of thyroid disorders too. I get mine checked regularly and so far so good. I did try eating liver and it made me want to puke. It was all I could do to get it down. I could try the pill thing though... I think. I'll look into what that is exactly first though.

Does anybody have any thoughts on what a balanced diet should look like or know of a TF chart for that?

[hummingmom]

It's really important to get the organ meats, especially liver. Muscle meat is lacking in a lot of vitamins and minerals. Healthy, traditional meat-eating cultures use all the parts of the animal; it just makes sense.

Have you tried liverwurst? Or, if you prefer to disguise it, you can blend or finely chop the liver, add it to ground beef, and use it in hamburgers or meatloaf.

[guestmama9904]

i doesnt sound like much food to me at all, though i too find it hard to prepare a substancial lunch. i get what you are saying about thinking in terms of nutrients needed but you also just need a certain amount of calories per day, more when nursing and working out 1 hour a day.
my baby is 4 months and only eats mamas milk and here is what i ate today:

toast with butter/homemade jam, 2 eggs. 1 apple with 2 tbls almond butter
1 grapefruit, coffee with cream and palm sugar

lunch: hunk of triple cream brie cheese with rice crackers, 1 glass of milk, 3 oz sprouted almonds. 2 sourdough pancakes cooked in bacon fat topped with 1/4 whole milk plain yogurt and real maple syrup.

dinner was thai ground beef laab (salad) with brown rice( with butter) and bok choy.

snack 1.5 peices of toast with pb and honey and milk.

[La Sombra]

I agree that it doesn't sound like you are eating a lot. I understand you are looking for nutritional answers but here I think the answer is pretty obvious: eat more! What sorts of things should you eat more of? Well, I'd say the exact kinds of things that you are already eating, just more of them!

Other thoughts: my hair was still falling out one year postpartum which I remember being alarmed at but it has totally calmed down. (Yet I'd also consider a pp's advice to look into andrenal fatigue, especially with all the exercise). Also: I find proteins really fill me up, perhaps more than fats. Can I recommend lox, smoked salmon for breakfast or even lunch? Finally, and I almost hesitate to mention it because it really does seem to me a matter of you genuinely needing to eat more but here is a great book to read: Mindful Eating by Jan Chozen Bays. In fact, no, this book might be very helpful to you even if it is simply that you need to eat more, because it will help you to learn how to listen to your body and know when your need for more food is genuine.

[eastkygal]

Thanks for the answers. I should say that I nurse 4 times during the daylight hours and 4-5 at night. And, eating more isn't clicking with me right now, but I totally understand your point. I'm fearful because I have already added more fat to my diet and a little more at lunch. I'm cleaning my plate at dinner more than I was. I weigh 160 pounds and I'm a large framed woman. I've been using my hunger cues to tell me when to stop eating, and the clock to tell me when it is time to eat. Maybe adding another snack in somewhere would be helpful. Also, I've heard/read somewhere that stomach growling isn't always hunger but could signify thirst. I will try to eat more the next few days and see how I feel. Though making sure we have nutritionally balanced meals is still an interest.

[forestrymom]

Originally Posted by eastkygal

Thanks... I tend to think it is more nutritional rather than food amount. I feel like I'm eating enough fat and food at one sitting without eating to the point where I feel really full. I am a food controller whether I'm overeating or eating just right or too little though. I feel like I'm doing good with the TF way of thinking though. I'll have to look into adrenal fatigue. My family has a big history of thyroid disorders too. I get mine checked regularly and so far so good. I did try eating liver and it made me want to puke. It was all I could do to get it down. I could try the pill thing though... I think. I'll look into what that is exactly first though.

Does anybody have any thoughts on what a balanced diet should look like or know of a TF chart for that?

I like organ meats, but I've heard of grinding some up and adding to ground meat when you eat it. I would guess it would make it a bit more rich tasting, but I bet you can't notice it too much.

I would also say you are undereating a bit at lunch. I am a runner, and have been running long distances training to run a marathon, and when I do my longer runs, I have to eat almost twice that much. I would still like to lose about 10 more pounds, but I am starving after my runs. Your op doesn't say how much meat you are eating for lunch, but I would guess that you would need a full can of tuna on a tuna salad and a very generous portion of meat at dinner, at the very least.

What I would do, and you are looking to maintain your weight, is to eat more and watch your weight closely. If you maintain, then great. If you start to gain, cut back, but I would cut back on the cream in your coffee and add something more substantial back in.

And if you are drinking kefir and eating yogurt daily, I bet you can get by without the extra probiotic. I would like to hear more on whether that is necessary or not (for my own info).

[memory maker]

I would also say you arent eating enough...especially since you are exercising and nursing, which both eat a lot of calories

[wagamama]

What about more veggies? I've been trying to make soup every day, mostly veggie and bean-based soups. I eat several bowls and lunch and it is really helping me to feel full (also nursing a 1-yr-old).

[guestmama9904]

Originally Posted by eastkygal

Thanks for the answers. I should say that I nurse 4 times during the daylight hours and 4-5 at night. And, eating more isn't clicking with me right now, but I totally understand your point. I'm fearful because I have already added more fat to my diet and a little more at lunch. I'm cleaning my plate at dinner more than I was. I weigh 160 pounds and I'm a large framed woman. I've been using my hunger cues to tell me when to stop eating, and the clock to tell me when it is time to eat. Maybe adding another snack in somewhere would be helpful. Also, I've heard/read somewhere that stomach growling isn't always hunger but could signify thirst. I will try to eat more the next few days and see how I feel. Though making sure we have nutritionally balanced meals is still an interest.

i think you need to drink more milk, i didnt see that you drank any. the wapf recomends nursing moms drink 32 oz of raw whole milk a day in addition to a good diet.
i weigh 165 and am small framed and 5' 8". i am only 4 months pp but want to get back to my normal 140-145lb sized. still, though i eat when i am hungry and really am not willing to be hungry just to lose weight. forget the clock, eat a few healthy snacks between meals, ie. nuts, hardboiled egg ect.

[memory maker]

Originally Posted by arismama!

i think you need to drink more milk, i didnt see that you drank any. the wapf recomends nursing moms drink 32 oz of raw whole milk a day in addition to a good diet.

Also bone broths would be VERY healthy for you

[hummingmom]

The amount of food doesn't seem that low to me, but I guess it depends on how much fat the OP is adding to her eggs, vegetables, etc. Fat has 9 calories per gram, while carbs and protein have only 4 calories per gram. I usually add about 2 tbsp. of butter (or the equivalent of other fats) to each meal, which is 200 calories x 3 = 600 calories. When I'm making yogurt, I'll add heavy cream to bring the fat content up to the level of Jersey milk, i.e. 5%, vs. 3.5% for Holstein milk. Although sometimes my hand will slip, and a little extra cream will find its way in there.

If the OP is doing this sort of thing, and eating to appetite, she's probably getting enough calories.

[eastkygal]

To be utterly honest I am afraid of gaining weight, but when reading hummingmom's post I still feel like I am getting probably just enough. For example, I had 2 tbsp. butter with supper today. 1 tbsp. for breakfast plus sausage fried in EVO. I put at least 2 tbsp. half and half in my coffee.

As far as meats, I eat 2 sausage patties - or 3-4 slices of bacon in the morning. Most of the time for lunch I don't have meat, but when I do it would be a whole can of tuna or the equivalent amount wise. For supper it would be 1 chicken breast, 1 hamburger patty, about the same amount of roast, 2 small pork chops, etc...

I'm worried about eating liver because organic is not available to me and I don't think what is is very fresh. I don't know if it would be my best choice. As far as drinking milk, I love milk. Again, I'm afraid of gaining weight, and also don't drink it because raw milk isn't available to me so I just have organic. I try to limit it to cooking and buy it for DH.

Is there a chart or something that tells for a TF diet how many calories should come from fat, protein, etc...?

[guestmama9904]

have you read Eat Fat, Lose Fat by Sally Fallon and Mary Enig? in it they recomend a diet of no less then 2500 calories for nursing moms. i drink low-temp pasturized, grass-fed and local organic certified milk and sometimes drink raw milk. i dont think milk loses ALL its benefits from pasturization. and as far as gaining weight, even the standard american diet pushers of the milk industry say that drinking milk helps with weightloss, it doesnt cause weight gain in general.

[hummingmom]

Traditional cultures have tended to get around 15% of calories from protein, which seems to do a good job of meeting the body's needs. It's recommended to have some extra during pregnancy or nursing, but not more than about 20% (which would be 125 g for a 2500 calorie diet). Any more than that is just going to put an extra burden on the liver and kidneys.

As for fat and carbohydrates, there aren't any "TF rules." Some healthy traditional societies have consumed only 20-30% of calories from fat; this would include those who get their protein from seafood, and fill up on grains, fruits, or starchy vegetables. Others, such as those who hunt fatty game or eat a lot of high-fat dairy, have consumed up to 80% of calories from fat.

I've recently seen some evidence to suggest that it's best to eat at one of these extremes -- i.e., to emphasize *either* carbs or fat, and keep the other one as low as reasonably possible -- rather than to mix the two in roughly equal proportions. (See this thread for more info.) According to this theory, your body can adapt to burn either type of fuel, but if you mix the two, you're likely to gum up the works. So if you were eating high-fat, you'd want to stay away from the "full bowl of oatmeal + fruit" type of breakfast, as well as concentrated sweeteners in general. Something like a small potato or apple, or a thin piece of bread, would pretty much be the limit at each meal.

That makes a lot of sense to me. I know for DH and myself, those weekend pancake & sausage breakfasts really do us in. But boy, do they taste good.

[hummingmom]

Okay, I'm a total nerd and actually have a spreadsheet for this kind of stuff, so I just decided to do a breakdown. The figures shown are:

(protein g/fat g/carb g) = calories

Breakfast:
2 eggs + 1 tbsp butter (12/21/2) = 246
4 slices bacon (10/30/0) = 310
1 cup of yogurt (8/8/4) = 120 (this is for commercial whole milk yogurt; homemade might have lower carbs)
2 tbsp half and half (1/3.5/1) = 39
2 tsp honey (0/0/12) = 48

= (31/63/19) = 763

Lunch:
1/2 cup cashews (12/30/20) = 400
1 Babybel cheese (I'm guessing this is the Mini size?) (5/6/0) = 70

= (17/36/20) = 470

Dinner:
4 oz hamburger (27/18/0) = 268
1 large baked potato + 1 tbsp butter (7.5/11/63) = 378
1/2 cup cooked spinach + 1 tbsp butter (5/12/7) = 156

= (40/41/70) = 802

Snack:
1 cup kefir (8/8/4) = 120 (see note above on yogurt)


Total = (96/148/113) = 2165 calories

18% of calories from protein / 61% from fat / 21% from carbohydrates

So, calorie-wise, you're almost there (especially if you eat more than 1/2 cup of nuts at lunch time). Still, I agree with PP's that a couple more servings of dairy would probably be a good idea.

[guestmama9904]

2165 cals isnt enough imho if you are excersizing frequently and breastfeeding. in eat fat lose fat the authors state 2500 cals as the MINIMUM for nursing moms, not athletes who are nursing moms. assuming the op is truly running 5 hours a week she probably needs about 500 cals per hour of excersize, so 2500 extra cals per week, so approximately 350 extra calories a day due to the excersize. unless of course weight loss is a major goal. but just to maintain i would guess the op needs at least 2850 cals a day. so basically a whole other meal in addition every day.