Kindy moms--is it really like this? - Page 2

[darien]

Originally Posted by ChristaN

That type of system was used in dd#1's 1st grade, but neither of my girls' kindergartens. Variations have been used in other grades such as "check marks" next to your name for behavior problems. To me, it is a sign of a teacher with poor classroom management skills. The teachers my dds have had who were very able to keep the classroom under control did not need to resort to color coding the children.

I agree with you, but...

Years ago I was asked to take over a kindy class in November. The kids had started the year with a teacher who had no classroom management skills and turned out to be a bit of a nutjob. After she was fired, the class had a string of warm-body subs. The kids were insane.

I used a system of checks (much more forgiving than the system the OP mentioned) to get them to accept me as an authority figure and get their behavior back to normal. After a month or so, when we were actually working as a class, I started phasing out the check system.

I'm not sure what else I could have done. I didn't want to play prison guard, but it worked. Once it worked, we could move on to kinder and gentler.

I do think that using a color system as a default is ridiculous. It's sloppy teaching, and it demeans the students.

[the_lissa]

Originally Posted by ChristaN

To me, it is a sign of a teacher with poor classroom management skills. The teachers my dds have had who were very able to keep the classroom under control did not need to resort to color coding the children.

I agree. My daughter's school does not do this, and I have never heard of any school around here doing that. I've often volunteered in her class, and I've never seen any of the kids even need disciplined. Sometimes they need to be reminded to be quiet when someone is talking, but that's it. If there are so many misbehaviour issues to require a system, I think that is more of a reflection of the teacher's management and expectations.

[MommyPam]

Our school system here in MA does not use this system. The public school that dd went to in PA did use this system in kindergarten and first grade. It was very, very traumatic for my highly sensitive and anxious dd in K and first grade. I don't think she ever get a color change once in those two years, but she worried about it constantly. I've seen first hand that this kind of system can be very, very negative for sensitive kids. I don't think her teacher's ever realized what a negative impact this had on dd.

[wildmonkeys]

My older child is very sensitve and has worried at length about getting his color changed - I told his teacher how stressed he was about it and she talked with him about it.

Having watched a few different teachers use the same system - I think whether it is stressful is largely in the way it is used - my ds has a WONDERFUL kinder teacher and she really uses it to celebrate how well behaved her class is. My older son had a second grade teacher who was not using it well and I talked to her about it....

[Kristine233]

DD's kinder class uses this and she's had her color changed too. But she is an obsessive chatterer, lol. I mean, to the point where her friends have started saying "Mac, we need to not sit by each other for rest time because you talk too much". She's my social bug. The teacher is really lenient though and kids can earn back the green.

[MichaelsSahm]

Originally Posted by the_lissa

If there are so many misbehaviour issues to require a system, I think that is more of a reflection of the teacher's management and expectations.

I agree. See, my son is a child that is always moving around. He gets in trouble for getting out of his chair, talking too much. Now I am aware that there is a time and place for everything. But sometimes I think its being used too much. It almost becomes the most important thing in his day now, when he got on green, or yellow or sometimes red. I understand discipline is needed, but I think the green, yellow red system is over used.

[MichaelsSahm]

Originally Posted by Kristine233

DD's kinder class uses this and she's had her color changed too. But she is an obsessive chatterer, lol. I mean, to the point where her friends have started saying "Mac, we need to not sit by each other for rest time because you talk too much". She's my social bug. The teacher is really lenient though and kids can earn back the green.

DS is the same way. Always talking, lots of stories. LOL!

[the_lissa]

Originally Posted by MichaelsSahm

I agree. See, my son is a child that is always moving around. He gets in trouble for getting out of his chair, talking too much. Now I am aware that there is a time and place for everything. But sometimes I think its being used too much. It almost becomes the most important thing in his day now, when he got on green, or yellow or sometimes red. I understand discipline is needed, but I think the green, yellow red system is over used.

Yes and if children are getting in trouble for getting out of their chair, then maybe they are spending too much sitting or maybe they can have the option of doing their activity standing up, etc. I don't think that should be a punishable offense.

Grades 2 and up at my kids' school have the option of using exercise balls instead of chairs, which I think it is great.

[octobermom]

Having watched a few different teachers use the same system - I think whether it is stressful is largely in the way it is used - my ds has a WONDERFUL kinder teacher and she really uses it to celebrate how well behaved her class is. My older son had a second grade teacher who was not using it well and I talked to her about it...

I agree

Deanna

[annethcz]

I've read here that this is common, but I've never heard of this type of system being used in my local area. It's definitely not used in my kids' school.

[Girlprof]

Our son's teacher uses the check mark system. I can't remember what all happens but the first time, you get your name on the board, then a check mark, then a second. You can definitely get check marks and your name erased.

I've been in the classroom and this is an excellent teacher. I wonder if teachers who do not have a similar system have a different set of kids? We are in a public school. There are 20 kids in the class, one teacher, no aide. I think I'm the only parent who volunteers on a regular basis. The kids are all over the map in terms of social and academic ability. I've seen incredible progress in pretty much all the kids over the course of the year and they seem quite happy in the classroom most of the time. Frankly, this system seems to be working really well.

[CT Mommy]

OMG. I think my decision to homeschool (which I have been agonizing over for months) is cemented. My dd just turned 5 and she is very sensitive. This would be devastating to her.

When I was in 2nd grade, a little boy in my class, Ross, was very hyper-active. He was always talking and found it difficult to pay attention, sit still, wait in line etc. He was loud. My classmates and I thought he was funny. Good at sports. Life of the party at recess/lunch. He had plenty of friends, he just couldn't sit still in class. In today's schools, he would have been on some kind of ADHD/ADD meds for sure. Anyway, one day, right before lunch (and after we'd been sitting for 3 hours), he was kneeling/standing on his chair. The teacher told him calmly to sit down and proceeded to take his nametag and put it in the "doghouse" which was tacked on the bulletin board. Poor child put his head on his desk and cried. He wet his pants and the other children made fun of him. He ended up going to the nurses office and eventually his mom picked him up.

This child never spoke again, in school or otherwise after this incidence. He never had any friends. Never played a recess. Never played sports. We'd play battle ball in gym class and the other boys would just throw balls at him over and over. He would never even defend himself. Sat by himself at lunch. He went from an A student to a C student overnight (the highest reading group to the lowest that semester). Even at age 7, I knew that his spirit was broken and that this event effected him (and, frankly, me) for the rest of his life.

I have no doubt that the spotlight system keeps these kids in line. Ross never misbehaved in class again.

[lotusdebi]

My neighborhood school gives Kindergarten kids happy faces, neutral faces, or sad faces on their take-home behavior charts, depending on their classroom behavior. I think it's horrible, and I've certainly witnessed the effects on my son's schooled friend.

[l_olive]

A child who was the life of party never spoke again "in school or otherwise" after having been embarrassed once in school? I would think there must be more to this story.

My son's public school kindergarten does not use any kind of system like this. But the kids all know who's had some kind of difficulty anyway, so I'm not sure what the light system is supposed to accomplish that isn't pretty much public knowledge anyway.

[je309]

Originally Posted by CT Mommy

OMG. I think my decision to homeschool (which I have been agonizing over for months) is cemented. My dd just turned 5 and she is very sensitive. This would be devastating to her.

When I was in 2nd grade, a little boy in my class, Ross, was very hyper-active. He was always talking and found it difficult to pay attention, sit still, wait in line etc. He was loud. My classmates and I thought he was funny. Good at sports. Life of the party at recess/lunch. He had plenty of friends, he just couldn't sit still in class. In today's schools, he would have been on some kind of ADHD/ADD meds for sure. Anyway, one day, right before lunch (and after we'd been sitting for 3 hours), he was kneeling/standing on his chair. The teacher told him calmly to sit down and proceeded to take his nametag and put it in the "doghouse" which was tacked on the bulletin board. Poor child put his head on his desk and cried. He wet his pants and the other children made fun of him. He ended up going to the nurses office and eventually his mom picked him up.

This child never spoke again, in school or otherwise after this incidence. He never had any friends. Never played a recess. Never played sports. We'd play battle ball in gym class and the other boys would just throw balls at him over and over. He would never even defend himself. Sat by himself at lunch. He went from an A student to a C student overnight (the highest reading group to the lowest that semester). Even at age 7, I knew that his spirit was broken and that this event effected him (and, frankly, me) for the rest of his life.

I have no doubt that the spotlight system keeps these kids in line. Ross never misbehaved in class again.

This is a horrible story and utterly sad in every way. HOWEVER, there is so much more going on here than a teacher placing his name in the "dog house." I can't believe that no one stepped up to help this child. My own child is extremely sensitive. So sensitive that we opted to try a small, private school for her to see how it went because I don't think she could handle a larger school. She is an extreme people pleaser and is easily devastated if she does anything "wrong." She did get spoken to over some small incident earlier this year and she was very upset. She cried and was really sad about it. However, her teacher as well as her dad and I worked together to help her understand and to use it as a tool to help her understand that everyone makes mistakes, no one is perfect, and that we all will always love her regardless. Life will go on. She did not wet her pants during that incident, but she has wet her pants at school and that too was handled in such a loving and respectful way that it never even bothered her. She has never been made fun of, teased, or singled-out by other children because of it because that simply isn't tolerated.

I hope that the boy you speak of has found a way to rebuild his self-esteem and regain a normal life. I can see your point about how that system may have started a chain reaction, but it IMO, it did not cause his complete shut down. This child was let down by many adults in his life for this to have happened to him.

[MichaelsSahm]

Originally Posted by l_olive

A child who was the life of party never spoke again "in school or otherwise" after having been embarrassed once in school? I would think there must be more to this story..

I was thinking the same thing!

[obiandelismom]

Originally Posted by MommyPam

Our school system here in MA does not use this system. The public school that dd went to in PA did use this system in kindergarten and first grade. It was very, very traumatic for my highly sensitive and anxious dd in K and first grade. I don't think she ever get a color change once in those two years, but she worried about it constantly. I've seen first hand that this kind of system can be very, very negative for sensitive kids. I don't think her teacher's ever realized what a negative impact this had on dd.

My kids are both obsessed with the system as well. They are deathly afraid that they will have to change their color, which is bad enough, but they also get a bit of a "superiority complex" about the "bad" kids who do have to change colors. :

I hate the whole thing. Stupid. Bleh. However, I'm going to be an elementary librarian next year, and the current librarian gave me a book on classroom management that she said "every new teacher should read, and every veteren teacher wishes she had." It offered five or six variations on the "rating" scheme idea, with absolutely no discussion about what else could be done to manage the class. So I believe the posters who say it's required/accepted/expected.

One of the ideas was to draw a big heart on the board, and write each kid's name inside the heart. If a kid broke a rule, then you erased the name, and wrote it OUTSIDE of the heart. THEN you tell the child that he is "not in Ms. XYZ's heart right now."

W.T.F.

[staceychev]

Originally Posted by meemee

hmmm - but how much is the child aware of this kind of system? how much does it affect your friends child?

My friend's daughter is very aware of it, as are other kids. My friend's DCP has a daughter in the class, too, and while friend's DD gets orange and red all the time, DCP's DD doesn't. Evidently, she was sent home with a yellow or orange card last week and was sobbing when she got home, inconsolable.

My friend's daughter seems pretty jaded by it already. She just turned five in August. Not fun to describe a 5-1/2 year old as jaded...

[Mary]

My son's teacher does not do this, but it is common. My oldest's Kindy teacher used a sad face/happy face method of reporting behavior in their journals (which went home daily). If they recieved happy faces all week, then they got to pick a prize out of the treasure chest on Friday. I hated this method, but felt for the teacher- she had 28 children and no aide. She had to run that class like a boot camp.

I will say, after subbing for my son's class, I am way more understanding of why a teacher would use some sort of system. It does seem like there's got to be a better way though.

[ece602]

It is common here too. I've heard of them using letters before. One teacher used the ICMM system I Can Manage Myself. Each time you lost a letter/word, it meant you did something.