Ukraine Vaccine Scare

[mkmoro311]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090325/..._vaccine_scare

Have y'all seen this!

[shuttlt]

Originally Posted by mkmoro311

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090325/..._vaccine_scare

Have y'all seen this!

This looks like like kind of vaccine scare than gives the anti-vax movement a bad name.

[I know anti-vax is wrong, is there a short, pithy, more correct alternative? Non-pro-vax?]

[ema-adama]

Ukraine has had two major outbreaks of measles since 200. Ukrainians aged 16-29 have proven to be highly susceptible, apparently because of an ineffective vaccination campaign carried out in the 1990s, when the country was in economic crisis following the collapse of the Soviet Union.

If Ukraine cannot revaccinate at least 95 percent of the estimated 9 million people who got deficient vaccines in the '90s, UNICEF says, the next outbreak could be even bigger.

From the article in the OP.
Underlining mine.

What I find interesting is that from previous discussions here it seems to be that the measles vaccine is one of the most effective vaccines at preventing clinical cases of the disease. So surely this age group would demonstrate immunity if they had been vaccinated? Or does the Ukraine use different vaccines? Do some measles vaccines work and others not?
Or, if the 16 - 29 year age group did not have a high enough threshhold of vaccination, why did they not contract the disease when they were children?

I can imagine this would have the WHO and governments very jittery.

[Novella]

Originally Posted by ema-adama

From the article in the OP.
Underlining mine.

What I find interesting is that from previous discussions here it seems to be that the measles vaccine is one of the most effective vaccines at preventing clinical cases of the disease. So surely this age group would demonstrate immunity if they had been vaccinated? Or does the Ukraine use different vaccines? Do some measles vaccines work and others not?
Or, if the 16 - 29 year age group did not have a high enough threshhold of vaccination, why did they not contract the disease when they were children?

I can imagine this would have the WHO and governments very jittery.

I didn't think that's what that meant. I understood it to mean that in the 1990s, there was an awareness campaign encouraging people to vaccinate their children. That campaign was unsuccessful - ie. many people did not vaccinate. I dunno.

[alegna]

Originally Posted by ema-adama

What I find interesting is that from previous discussions here it seems to be that the measles vaccine is one of the most effective vaccines at preventing clinical cases of the disease. So surely this age group would demonstrate immunity if they had been vaccinated?

There have been bad batches- there was a bad batch in the US (and that's what made them add the second dose in the 90s)

What I don't know is what makes batches bad. Is measles one that must be refrigerated and is sensitive to temp changes?

-Angela

[shuttlt]

Eastern European vaccination does seem to have a very worrying history... knowingly using vaccines contaminated with monkey virus for heavens sake!

[ema-adama]

Originally Posted by ema-adama

Or, if the 16 - 29 year age group did not have a high enough threshhold of vaccination, why did they not contract the disease when they were children?

This is the second scenario that I thought might be possible - in that the 16-29 year olds had not been vaccinated, but then I am curious as to why this segment of the population did not have measles as children.

Originally Posted by shuttlt
Eastern European vaccination does seem to have a very worrying history... knowingly using vaccines contaminated with monkey virus for heavens sake!

Is this in the article? I might have missed it.

[ema-adama]

Originally Posted by alegna

There have been bad batches- there was a bad batch in the US (and that's what made them add the second dose in the 90s)

What I don't know is what makes batches bad. Is measles one that must be refrigerated and is sensitive to temp changes?

-Angela

For one bad batch they added a second dose even after the bad dose had been 'covered'?

From what I remember, yes it is sensitive and that is one of the reasons it's difficult to administer in the 3rd world. I could be wrong though...

[Marnica]

Originally Posted by shuttlt

Eastern European vaccination does seem to have a very worrying history... knowingly using vaccines contaminated with monkey virus for heavens sake!

Kind of like the US.

[shuttlt]

Originally Posted by Marnica

Kind of like the US.

But at least in the US the stopped when the problem was discovered. I think it turned out that in the Soviet Union they used it for a couple more decades (@emma-adama: It wasn't in the article, I read it somewhere a couple of weeks ago).

[kiara7]

I'm from Ukraine and I've heard "first-hand" stories about the MMR fiasco last year.

The WHO/UNICEF MMR immunization campaign was a disaster. They basically rounded up a bunch of high school juniors and seniors and jabbed them. Students had horrible reactions, some died. Then they said vaccine was contaminated or smth. The parents were very angry since the kids were mostly minors and no one asked for parental consent.

Since then, I know of two cases personally. One 16-mo, MMR, developed Measles, very sick, mom isn't vaxing till he's at least 3 years old. Another, 4 mo. got DTaP, fever, unresponsive, lethargic, going from hospital to hospital still. Won't be vaxed ever again.

So, I don't blame them. Humans are not guinea pigs.

[Marnica]

They knew the polio vaccine was contaminated for YEARS before they did anything about it.

In 1999 at the SV40 conference scientists admitted that "SV-40 sequences" remain in the poliovivus seed used in the currect polio vaccine (current in 1999) I realize that IPV is used now. My point is IMO many of the current vaccines are contaminated with chicken viruses, monkey viruses and DNA.

If you want a good read pick up "Fear of the Invisible" by Janine Roberts.
It is well researched and documented and very eye opening (and stomach turning).

[shuttlt]

Originally Posted by Marnica

They knew the polio vaccine was contaminated for YEARS before they did anything about it.

In 1999 at the SV40 conference scientists admitted that "SV-40 sequences" remain in the poliovivus seed used in the currect polio vaccine (current in 1999) I realize that IPV is used now. My point is IMO many of the current vaccines are contaminated with chicken viruses, monkey viruses and DNA.

If you want a good read pick up "Fear of the Invisible" by Janine Roberts.
It is well researched and documented and very eye opening (and stomach turning).

Weird. I think the 1999 conference is where I first heard about the SV-40 issue. I came away with the impression that they didn't continue to use the contaminated vaccine. If they did, I would definately find that troubling to say the least. Are you positive about this?

[shuttlt]

Originally Posted by Marnica

If you want a good read pick up "Fear of the Invisible" by Janine Roberts.
It is well researched and documented and very eye opening (and stomach turning).

I had been trying to decide what to read next. Having just read Offit, I was hankering for the other side of the coin.... Should I read this, or Evidence of Harm, or something else?

[shuttlt]

Originally Posted by kiara7

I'm from Ukraine and I've heard "first-hand" stories about the MMR fiasco last year.

So what's all this about a Western plot to make Muslims infertile and give them Aids? Do people in Ukraine really believe this?

[kiara7]

Originally Posted by shuttlt

So what's all this about a Western plot to make Muslims infertile and give them Aids? Do people in Ukraine really believe this?

This was Nigeria:

In 2003, imams in northern Nigeria fomented a boycott of polio vaccinations claiming they were a Western plot to make Muslims infertile or infect them with HIV.

Authorities in Indonesia are discussing a plan to end childhood immunizations against a number of diseases out of fears that foreign drug companies are using the country as a testing ground.

This I'm sure many believe.

[shuttlt]

Originally Posted by kiara7

This was Nigeria:

Damn my lack of sleep!

In that case, this scare is quite a bit more sensible looking. Apologies. Western plots to give Muslims HIV is crazy talk!

[ema-adama]

Originally Posted by shuttlt

So what's all this about a Western plot to make Muslims infertile and give them Aids? Do people in Ukraine really believe this?

Reading just a little about this - there is more controversy to this claim than meets the eye. Apparently the vaccine was sent to India to be tested for purity as there was a question of contamination behind the fears of infertility. So off the vaccine went to New Delhi.
The tests from India say the vaccine was contaminiated. Tests that were recommended by the WHO as being the most sensitive at picking up impurity.

When new vaccines were brought in and tested as uncontaminated, the children were lined up for their vax.

That is one side of the story.

Another is that the Nigerian government sent the same suspicious vax to South Africa to be tested and the tests came back that it was not contaminated. The Nigerian government I am sure were very relieved to have their own results and be able to say that the results from the Indian lab were not to be trusted.

From what I understand the batch with questionable contamination was thrown out anyway.....

[shuttlt]

Originally Posted by ema-adama

Reading just a little about this - there is more controversy to this claim than meets the eye. Apparently the vaccine was sent to India to be tested for purity as there was a question of contamination behind the fears of infertility. So off the vaccine went to New Delhi.
The tests from India say the vaccine was contaminiated. Tests that were recommended by the WHO as being the most sensitive at picking up impurity.

When new vaccines were brought in and tested as uncontaminated, the children were lined up for their vax.

That is one side of the story.

Another is that the Nigerian government sent the same suspicious vax to South Africa to be tested and the tests came back that it was not contaminated. The Nigerian government I am sure were very relieved to have their own results and be able to say that the results from the Indian lab were not to be trusted.

From what I understand the batch with questionable contamination was thrown out anyway.....

This makes me realize that I don't understand at all the process by which vaccines get from patent to patient. Once (by maybe 2020) I'm through understanding the epidemiology side of things I'll turn my attention to this. I'm still pretty conventional in terms of my views of the usual risk factors associated with vaccines. Perhaps that will change. One of my concerns abbout vaccination is monkey virus type scenarios. It's unlikely as hell, but you could wipe out a heck of a lot of people that way. The flu pandemic after the First World War wiped out 50-100 million people in 6 months (according to Wikipedia). You would only have to cause this kind of thing once to stuff the heck out of the cost/benifit argument for vaccination.

[Marnica]

Originally Posted by shuttlt

I had been trying to decide what to read next. Having just read Offit, I was hankering for the other side of the coin.... Should I read this, or Evidence of Harm, or something else?

I highly recommend this book "fear of the Invisible" because it is not specifically about vaccines per se. It is about the flawed science behind the vaccines and how they are contaminated. A huge part of the book is also about AIDS research and the whole cover-up on AIDS reseach that happened in the 1980's. It is really frightening to me how much of vaccine and other types of research (AIDS reseach specifically) is flawed and based on nothing but unproven assumptions. And how much is distored for profit. I would start with this book. I wish I had read it before many of the others I have read as I feel it would have given be a stronger foundation of knowledge.