People accept this answer?!

[maxwill129]

I was reading the Ask Dr. Sears page on chicken pox. While he does say that kids can get bacterial infections and ear infections (oh the horror) from the chickn pox, his main argument for the vaccination is that it's a nuisance to have your child get the chicken pox!!! Or am I reading this wrong? Do people really care about convenience over health?!

http://www.askdrsears.com/html/8/T080900.asp

[jeliphish]

I think there is a certain amout of validity in the article. DH and I both have jobs that we have vacation and sick time that we have accrued, so taking the time off is not an issue...and for that reason along with other reasons, we don't fully vax.
However I do see many families, especially a lot of the single mom's that I work for at Social Services who have gotten fired from their job without a second guess because they have to take time off with their sick child. These jackass employeers have no compassion when it comes to sick/personal matters and firing someone for missing as little as 2 days of work...and that can be and is just devistating to a mom who is struggling to support her family.
I guess I try to remember that my core value system should not be projected onto other's lives as a whole. I had no understanding of that until I began working here. Some families live in filth, some mom's were never taught how to properly keep a child sanitary, some parent's out there are extremely limited and simply don't have the mental capacity to safely monitor/care for sick children. We had a 3 year old get chicken pox which subsequently turned into MRSA on her vagina because the child was scratching her pox while subsequently living in filth. After that case I had a hard time seeing the pox vaccine in a "black and white" argument.

I know the chicken pox vax is not the answer to solving these problematic familial situations but in the meantime, IF the vax is the only thing for some families that is going to keep the children and parents safe, I feel a little elitist having the opinion that they are making a bad decision by giving it to their children.

[Marnica]

Originally Posted by maxwill129

I was reading the Ask Dr. Sears page on chicken pox. While he does say that kids can get bacterial infections and ear infections (oh the horror) from the chickn pox, his main argument for the vaccination is that it's a nuisance to have your child get the chicken pox!!! Or am I reading this wrong? Do people really care about convenience over health?!

http://www.askdrsears.com/html/8/T080900.asp

I would think for those that believe vaccines are safe (most do) this would be a great answer! I don't think most people are putting convenience before health, I think they are not even aware of the health risks of this vaccine at all so are just seeing it as a positive.

[emma1325]

Originally Posted by maxwill129

I was reading the Ask Dr. Sears page on chicken pox. While he does say that kids can get bacterial infections and ear infections (oh the horror) from the chickn pox, his main argument for the vaccination is that it's a nuisance to have your child get the chicken pox!!! Or am I reading this wrong? Do people really care about convenience over health?!

http://www.askdrsears.com/html/8/T080900.asp

This is straying off of your topic a bit, but I also noticed that Dr. Sears says that he doesn't think the hep b shot should be given to newborns - because of the way it's transmitted (drug needles and sex.) He then goes on to say in his office he gives it at 2 months.

Are 2 month olds having sex and doing drugs? Makes no sense to me.

[laohaire]

It's my understanding that convenience was THE reason that the CP vaccine was developed in the first place. I mean, not a hidden, conspiracy theory reason, but the actual marketing message that (Merck, I think?) put out there for it.

As I recall, they focused on the number of work days missed by parents of CP-infected kids and put some dollar amount on it (a billion, probably) on lost productivity per year in the USA.

I'm not sure if they expected this all along or were pleasantly surprised, but the reaction of the public is that if there's a vaccine for it - it's a dangerous disease. So now we've "forgotten" the original reason for the vax and are now in places requiring it in schools, ostensibly for the safety of the children (rather than for the maximum profits for our capitalist nation, not restricted to big pharma either, cough cough).

[mountainsun]

Originally Posted by laohaire

It's my understanding that convenience was THE reason that the CP vaccine was developed in the first place. I mean, not a hidden, conspiracy theory reason, but the actual marketing message that (Merck, I think?) put out there for it.

As I recall, they focused on the number of work days missed by parents of CP-infected kids and put some dollar amount on it (a billion, probably) on lost productivity per year in the USA.

Yes, I believe you are correct on this. I remember thinking that that was so ridiculous (even before I had my kids).

[amah]

Yes. I was working in public health at the time and remember reading the rationale for the chicken pox vaccine was to save economic costs and loss of productive time. I thought it was very strange and rather frightening to be basing public health policy on economic rather than health benefits. Many of the same arguments were made for the flu shot.

I also find it interesting that several of the preschool kids shows (even from fairly recent years) have episodes on chicken pox and a mild illness part of a typical childhood - Caillou and Fireman Sam to name a few. So, in 2000 CP was so commonplace they did kids TV shows about it and now it's something to panic about.

[shuttlt]

Originally Posted by mountainsun

Yes, I believe you are correct on this. I remember thinking that that was so ridiculous (even before I had my kids).

If you're already convinced that vaccines are at worst neutral in terms of individual health, then this seems like a reasonable argument to me. It's just that it's an argument to convince government, not parents (unless you work for some 19th century type sweatshop owner, who'll fire you if you miss a days work).

[laralee16]

Originally Posted by laohaire

It's my understanding that convenience was THE reason that the CP vaccine was developed in the first place. I mean, not a hidden, conspiracy theory reason, but the actual marketing message that (Merck, I think?) put out there for it.

My sons doctor quoted this (not missing work) as why the cp shot was made.

[anewmama]

Originally Posted by emma1325

This is straying off of your topic a bit, but I also noticed that Dr. Sears says that he doesn't think the hep b shot should be given to newborns - because of the way it's transmitted (drug needles and sex.) He then goes on to say in his office he gives it at 2 months.

Are 2 month olds having sex and doing drugs? Makes no sense to me.

I think that he will follow the CDC recommendations more or less if that is what a parent wants but does not push the birth dose. He is also completely open to non-vaccinating patients. It seems like a mixed message but unless he comes out and says he will not vaccinate children in any way, he is sort of trying to find a balance to reconcile the CDC/AAP recommendations and what he thinks is right. It does come out sounding very conflicted though.

[BugMacGee]

I can't miss work. nOt for as long as I would have to with CP. (I was out of school for 6 weeks but I also got a secondary infection) We'd be in bad shape if my DD's got CP. So yes, I accepted this answer.

[runes]

An acquaintance "accepted" this answer for her two kids and vaxed them, and she was rip roaring furious when her kids came down with CP.

[Deborah]

Well, I don't think it makes sense, on this question, to go vaccine by vaccine, illness by illness.

The reasonable approach, IMO, would be to consider all of the vaccines, all of the diseases AND the overall effect on child health. This would involve looking at, say 10,000 children who were unvaxed versus 10,000 children who were vaxed and then count how many sick days occurred in each group of children. That would catch all of the kids who got childhood illnesses because they were unvaxed and all of the kids who got chronic health conditions (because they were vaxed?) and all the kids who got sick in spite of being vaxed and all the other permutations.

There are too many assumptions about the effects of vaccines on overall health, which have never been checked.

[Rosehip]

A lot of people cannot miss work. There are a lot of families in which both parents (or THE parent) works, and a lot of jobs at the top and bottom of the spectrum do not allow for generous personal/sick days. At the bottom/low-paying end, there just aren't benefits and people are, sadly, replaceable. At the top end, certain professionals have tremendous responsibility and someone else cannot just step in/things can't be postponed, and frankly, you just don't make it to the top if you're taking days off with any regularity for sick kids (I'm thinking trial lawyers, oncologists, top business executives, etc. here). In between, there are jobs that allow some flexibility - teachers, administrators, many unionized jobs, but there are a tremendous number of families who do not fall into this category.

In my previous career (well paying, professional), I could not use sick days for a kid's illness (and it was a small company, yes, they would have known). If my kid were hospitalized - yes. If my kid felt lousy & couldn't go to school - no.

My parents could also not miss work for sick kids. If there were a childcare issue, we went to work w/my mother.

[Gitti]

We've exposed the kids on purpose and they never got the cp. Maybe we should have gotten them vaccinated?

The longest our kids were ever sick was 6 days in 11 years. All other illnesses lasted 2 days max. This is in vax-free kids. I think most parents of vaccinated kids can't beat that record.

Any employer would be pleased with us.

[Fyrestorm]

So now they get to miss work when they (or the kid) comes down with shingles instead...great lot of good that did!

[DahliaRW]

Most of Europe doesn't even do the CP vax. I have a friend from France, her mom is a nurse, and she couldn't believe that it's one of the "requirements" for school here.

[luminesce]

Originally Posted by maxwill129

I was reading the Ask Dr. Sears page on chicken pox. While he does say that kids can get bacterial infections and ear infections (oh the horror) from the chickn pox, his main argument for the vaccination is that it's a nuisance to have your child get the chicken pox!!! Or am I reading this wrong? Do people really care about convenience over health?!

http://www.askdrsears.com/html/8/T080900.asp

Yep. That was one of the selling points of the vaccine. Less lost time at work and school - so less inconvenience.

You know how some people would rather eat a boxed convenience food with lots of preservatives, additives, fillers and colorants instead of making a homemade meal? Same principle. We are a society that easily trades health for convenience.

[luminesce]

Originally Posted by ToastyToes

A lot of people cannot miss work. There are a lot of families in which both parents (or THE parent) works, and a lot of jobs at the top and bottom of the spectrum do not allow for generous personal/sick days. At the bottom/low-paying end, there just aren't benefits and people are, sadly, replaceable. At the top end, certain professionals have tremendous responsibility and someone else cannot just step in/things can't be postponed, and frankly, you just don't make it to the top if you're taking days off with any regularity for sick kids (I'm thinking trial lawyers, oncologists, top business executives, etc. here). In between, there are jobs that allow some flexibility - teachers, administrators, many unionized jobs, but there are a tremendous number of families who do not fall into this category.

In my previous career (well paying, professional), I could not use sick days for a kid's illness (and it was a small company, yes, they would have known). If my kid were hospitalized - yes. If my kid felt lousy & couldn't go to school - no.

My parents could also not miss work for sick kids. If there were a childcare issue, we went to work w/my mother.

Sad, but true and something that needs to change. Maternity leave, for example. We're far behind.

http://www.usatoday.com/money/workpl...-of-life_x.htm