We're coming out. Maybe. - Page 4

[ccohenou]

Originally Posted by kathymuggle

hmmm...that statement was written within the context of "I don't think saying "John is good at xyz" is inherantly more honest than "John is bright". Both are partial truths. The full truth of why John reads at 3 is because he is gifted. It is not because he is good at reading - if his IQ were average he would not be reading at 3. If he were bright (but not gifted) it is unlikely he would be reading at 3.

It just seems like such an awkward, unnecessary, socially inappropriate construction though. To me it seems similar to the following conversation:
A: "That dress looks lovely on you!"
B: "Yes, it does! The reason why it looks so lovely on me is that I am thin and beautiful!"

Is that "more honest" than saying "thanks, I like it a lot too!"? Really? I don't think so - it's unnecessary and redundant and would make the speaker sound like a tool.

[labdogs42]

Originally Posted by ainh

I would NOT use labels...just acknowledge what is what. "She reads"...as opposed to "she's gifted"...people will figure it out and labels don't help anyone.

Yes, this. I don't like the word gifted and I also don't like teaching kids to hide or cover up their abilities. I feel like I learned from a young age to kind of dumb myself down. Mind you, I don't think this was any doing of my family, I think it was a coping mechanism I learned to feel more comfortable around my peers. I'm not sure what could have been done to prevent it, but I'm sure if my family had been trying to deny how smart I was, it would have rubbed off on me even more.

I tend to be funny/sarcastic, so I think I'd almost try to add a little humor to the situation. So someone says, "your three year old reads?" I'd reply with something like, "she's our little Einstein." or "she's a pretty smart cookie, she'll be doing our taxes next" or something to just lighten the situation. People don't want to hear that your child is "gifted", because that implies that theirs aren't.

It is OK to acknowledge the FACT that your DD can read. Please don't try to hide that. But, I just don't care for throwing around labels like gifted all the time. It is evident that she is intelligent by her actions. let those speak for her.

[purslaine]

Originally Posted by ccohenou

It just seems like such an awkward, unnecessary, socially inappropriate construction though. To me it seems similar to the following conversation:
A: "That dress looks lovely on you!"
B: "Yes, it does! The reason why it looks so lovely on me is that I am thin and beautiful!"

Is that "more honest" than saying "thanks, I like it a lot too!"? Really? I don't think so - it's unnecessary and redundant and would make the speaker sound like a tool.

Have you read the whole thread?

I have said repeatedly that I personally have no problem with saying:

a) child is bright
b) child is good at...
c) often (unless someone has gone on a rude gawking spree) saying nothing at all
d) child is gifted

Say whatever works and get the best (which may very well be no) reaction.

The OP has mentionned concerns with honesty. From an honesty standpoint and no other stating child is "good at" is no more honest "than child is bright".

[purslaine]

Originally Posted by ccohenou

It just seems like such an awkward, unnecessary, socially inappropriate construction though. To me it seems similar to the following conversation:
A: "That dress looks lovely on you!"
B: "Yes, it does! The reason why it looks so lovely on me is that I am thin and beautiful!"

Is that "more honest" than saying "thanks, I like it a lot too!"? Really? I don't think so - it's unnecessary and redundant and would make the speaker sound like a tool.

One more thought:

Sometimes letting another adult know your child is gifted is actually a kind thing to do for the other adult.

If they are angst filled because their 4 year cannot read, but yours can, saying "he is gifted" may actually help the other parent lighten up (as their child isn't gifted and shouldn't be expected to read at 4).

While it isn't my job to make other parents feel better - it is certainly something nice to do if I can - and if it does not hurt anyone (my kids) in the process. I do not believe for one minute that occasionally saying "Johnny is gifted" in front of Johnny is going to hurt him. Let's face it, Johnny is smart and probably knows it - more over, being gifted is simply part of who he is and not something that needs hiding.

Kathy

[no5no5]

Originally Posted by ccohenou

It just seems like such an awkward, unnecessary, socially inappropriate construction though. To me it seems similar to the following conversation:
A: "That dress looks lovely on you!"
B: "Yes, it does! The reason why it looks so lovely on me is that I am thin and beautiful!"

Is that "more honest" than saying "thanks, I like it a lot too!"? Really? I don't think so - it's unnecessary and redundant and would make the speaker sound like a tool.

Right, well, I am obviously picturing a conversation in which it is appropriate rather than one in which the speaker sounds like a "tool." To use your analogy, I am thinking more along the lines of:

A: "Don't try that dress on; it's way too small for you."
B: "I am a size 6."
vs.
B: "I like small clothes."

Originally Posted by kathymuggle

One more thought:

Sometimes letting another adult know your child is gifted is actually a kind thing to do for the other adult.

If they are angst filled because their 4 year cannot read, but yours can, saying "he is gifted" may actually help the other parent lighten up (as their child isn't gifted and shouldn't be expected to read at 4).

While it isn't my job to make other parents feel better - it is certainly something nice to do if I can - and if it does not hurt anyone (my kids) in the process. I do not believe for one minute that occasionally saying "Johnny is gifted" in front of Johnny is going to hurt him. Let's face it, Johnny is smart and probably knows it - more over, being gifted is simply part of who he is and not something that needs hiding.

Kathy

I am glad I am not the only one who sees it this way.

[no5no5]

Originally Posted by tiffani

I think the main issue is with a kid defining themselves as gifted, as it can so easily lead to pressure, expectations, fear of failure, etc, which *I think* is one reason why so many "gifted" individuals actually end up on the lower-achieving end of the spectrum. It's a hard label to live up to, and honestly, I think it really only serves a purpose if your child has a lot of difficulty in another area (especially socially, as that is the area everyone sees) as a way of explaining a bit about who they are, where they struggle and where they succeed.

I totally disagree. I had the experience as a child of being incredibly different from my peers, and not knowing why. I remember thinking that they must know something I don't--because why else would they act in such a strange, incomprehensible way. When I finally found out that I was PG, it totally changed how I saw the world, and everyone in it, and it was definitely for the better. I mean, until then I really thought that my peers were just as smart as I was but were either lazy or pretending to be dumb.

I think there is tremendous value in knowing that you have different abilities from other people. And I think there is great value in knowing that others, including adults, will not always understand what you need or what you are capable of, so that you can learn to advocate for yourself.

[eilonwy]

Originally Posted by no5no5

Right, well, I am obviously picturing a conversation in which it is appropriate rather than one in which the speaker sounds like a "tool." To use your analogy, I am thinking more along the lines of:

A: "Don't try that dress on; it's way too small for you."
B: "I am a size 6."
vs.
B: "I like small clothes."

Right... but it doesn't necessarily follow that the dress will fit just becuase you're a size six. Maybe the dress is a two. Maybe it's mismarked and says it's a six, but isn't. Maybe it will fit your body perfectly but be entirely too long, and maybe it just isn't cut for your figure-- perhaps it's a K-mart 6 rather than a Gap 6. I think the more reasonable response would be, "I'd like to try it on anyway." If you want to offer TMI, you might say, "I like the cut and color, and I'm familiar with this designer. I'm going to try the dress on, it's my time and my money to do with as I please."

Just because you wear "a small size" doesn't mean that every small dress is going to fit you, and just because you're highly gifted doesn't mean that every book or class is going to be appropriate for you. I can think of remarkably few times when someone would actually ask a question to which the appropriate response would be "I'm highly gifted." I also think that Roar's absolutely correct that nobody is going to ask a nine year old in a college course whether or not they're gifted-- it's one of those things that goes without saying. People might ask why you only knit single mittens, but nobody asks why you knit pairs.

[no5no5]

Eilonwy, I am not saying that it there are situations in which it is the only reasonable response. Perhaps the situations in which it might come up are few and far between. That's not my point. My point is that I want DD to feel free to share it if and when she feels it is appropriate without feeling as though she's violating an unspoken law. And it's not just about the word "gifted," although I honestly still don't get why it's such a big deal, but about any conversation in which the fact that she is gifted might be disclosed whether it is explicit or not.

I guess that I think avoiding saying the word is not significantly different from trying to hide the gift. I think if I do avoid saying that she is gifted, if and when it might be appropriate, she will interpret that as an attempt to hide the fact that she is gifted.

I mean, what do you say to people who ask about your kid's school or program if your kid ends up in an actual gifted school or an actual gifted program (as DD may)? What do you do if you're going off to a GT conference (as we are likely to do) and your friends ask where you're going and why? Is it somehow acceptable to say, "We're going to a meeting of the Colorado Gifted and Talented Association," but unacceptable to say, "We decided to homeschool because DD is highly gifted and we didn't think public school could meet her needs"?

[tiffani]

Originally Posted by kathymuggle

I think there are many reasons people do not become "high achieving". Many people do not want to be high achievers - and it is not due to fear of failure.

which is why I said "one of the reasons"

Originally Posted by kathymuggle

I think it comes down to how you define success. I define it as happiness and engagement level. I think there are many gifted people, whom, to outsiders, look like they could have "achieved more" - but are perfectly content.

I define success the same way you do. I was thinking more along the lines of gifted individuals who are actually stunted by the gifted label and are perfectionists with a fear of failure. I am quite happy being a stay-at-home mom, but I also know that I am kind of afraid to tackle writing that I'd like to do because if it isn't the best thing anyone has ever read, then I'd be failing. For me, having the gifted label as a kid was a mixed bag, in that I got to go to the gifted classes once a week, but socially I tried to "dumb it down" (told everyone I cheated to get into the gifted program, because better to be a cheater than smart) and the rest of my teachers consistently reported that I was "not meeting expectations" even though I was doing just fine in school. I feel that the gifted label can set up external and internal expectations that can be quite damaging.

Originally Posted by no5no5

I think there is tremendous value in knowing that you have different abilities from other people. And I think there is great value in knowing that others, including adults, will not always understand what you need or what you are capable of, so that you can learn to advocate for yourself.

absolutely, but there is tremendous value in knowing how obnoxious it would be to go around stating how gifted you are. knowing and feeling good about it and broadcasting it are two different things. It doesn't need to be hidden, but I can't think of too many situations where it would need to be announced either.

[Roar]

Originally Posted by kathymuggle

If they are angst filled because their 4 year cannot read, but yours can, saying "he is gifted" may actually help the other parent lighten up (as their child isn't gifted and shouldn't be expected to read at 4).

I can just as easily see that interpreted by another parent as "Oh my god, it isn't good enough her kid read first now she's got to point out that it isn't just now but forever that her kid is going to be better at everything." To me to say "well, my kid reads at four but that's because she's gifted" has a "and your kid isn't and that's why she isn't reading" implied at the end of it. That's pretty presumptuous in my opinion because you don't know which kids are gifted and of course there can be plenty of kids who will turn out to be gifted later who weren't reading a four.

Originally Posted by kathymuggle

While it isn't my job to make other parents feel better - it is certainly something nice to do if I can - and if it does not hurt anyone (my kids) in the process. I do not believe for one minute that occasionally saying "Johnny is gifted" in front of Johnny is going to hurt him. Let's face it, Johnny is smart and probably knows it - more over, being gifted is simply part of who he is and not something that needs hiding.

Kathy

I see a big difference between privately acknowledging to your child that you recognize giftedness as being radically different than publicly announcing over and over again as the way you define them. Let's say the child was really beautiful. Sure strangers will tell you that your child is beautiful. You can acknowledge the truth of that statement and move on but I really don't see responding over and over again "yes, she's is the top 1% of beauty" and "don't worry if your kid isn't as beautiful, mine is beauty gifted" are at all appropriate examples of good manners. I see both of those things as different than honestly acknowledging something the person has actually done "she was on the cover of Vogue" or "she won the science fair".

[zeldamomma]

Originally Posted by no5no5

I totally disagree. I had the experience as a child of being incredibly different from my peers, and not knowing why. I remember thinking that they must know something I don't--because why else would they act in such a strange, incomprehensible way. When I finally found out that I was PG, it totally changed how I saw the world, and everyone in it, and it was definitely for the better. I mean, until then I really thought that my peers were just as smart as I was but were either lazy or pretending to be dumb.

I think there is tremendous value in knowing that you have different abilities from other people. And I think there is great value in knowing that others, including adults, will not always understand what you need or what you are capable of, so that you can learn to advocate for yourself.

Wouldn't it have been as helpful to learn that different people have different strengths and weaknesses (though it boggles my mind that you were unaware that not everyone learns at the same rate, it's always seemed as obvious to me as physical variations)? I think that everyone should know "that others, including adults, will not always understand what you need or what you are capable of, so that you can learn to advocate for yourself." I don't know my IQ, but I was labeled as gifted as a kid, and told I was smart a lot, but I don't think it helped me, since it didn't get me out of all the soul-crushing busy work.

Personally, we don't discuss "giftedness" with our kids, because I don't want them to get the idea that they are a special class of people who are better than everyone else, or that everything ought to be easy for them. IME, kids who are told they are smarter than most people hear "I am smarter than everyone else." and it affects the way they treat other kids.

[eilonwy]

Originally Posted by no5no5

I guess that I think avoiding saying the word is not significantly different from trying to hide the gift. I think if I do avoid saying that she is gifted, if and when it might be appropriate, she will interpret that as an attempt to hide the fact that she is gifted.

It's not really about avoiding the word gifted as much as it is about your original issue-- that of honesty, rather than deception. I don't avoid the word "gifted," it just doesn't come up all that often in real life. That's very very different from avoiding [acknowledgement of] the gifts, which *do* come up in real life, and all the time.

I mean, what do you say to people who ask about your kid's school or program if your kid ends up in an actual gifted school or an actual gifted program (as DD may)?

Well, he's in neither a gifted school nor a "gifted program," but he is radically accelerated. We and he are pretty honest about that. "I'm working on third grade math," or whatever. For him, it doesn't even come down to, "I'm a gifted student" or "I'm mathematically gifted."

No one has asked him a question to which the most honest, appropriate, or reasonable response would be, "I'm gifted." He gets comments like, "Wow, you must be very smart," and he responds with, "Yeah, I real very well" or whatever. People assume that a six year old finishing third grade math is, at the least, very bright-- especially one as outgoing and boisterous as Bean, who doesn't fit the image people have of kids who are being hothoused.

What do I say? "He's working on X." Further questions? "Yes, he really enjoys it," "X comes easily to him," "He's very interested in X," or what have you. Occasionally there will be a "Yes, he's very bright/adept/gifted," but like I said... it's pretty rare. More often than that, I find myself saying things like, "All children learn and grow at their own rates. This is what he does, but it is not what anyone else *should* do-- it's the path for him," or "I've never worried much about his development." There are times when it is important to explain to someone that Bean's gifted, but they are remarkably rare. I'm not sure he's ever heard me say the word, though it's possible.

What do you do if you're going off to a GT conference (as we are likely to do) and your friends ask where you're going and why? Is it somehow acceptable to say, "We're going to a meeting of the Colorado Gifted and Talented Association," but unacceptable to say, "We decided to homeschool because DD is highly gifted and we didn't think public school could meet her needs"?

Well, my friends might ask where I was going but none would ask why. Again, it's one of those obvious things like "Why are you knitting two mittens?" Perhaps your daughter is less obvious than Bean, or perhaps your friends don't know you as well as mine know me, but I can't imagine anyone asking, "Why would you go to a meeting of the Gifted & Talented Association?" They already know why.

As to "We decided to homeschool because..." That's something that's again very obvious to most people, and particularly anyone I'd consider a friend. If a stranger asks, "My child is atypical, and I didn't feel his needs would be met in a traditional classroom" is more than enough information. Again, it doesn't necessarily follow that highly gifted children won't have their needs met in school... and it sort of implies to me that average children always *do* have their needs met in school, which is far from the truth.

[moominmamma]

Originally Posted by zeldamomma

I think that everyone should know "that others, including adults, will not always understand what you need or what you are capable of, so that you can learn to advocate for yourself."

: I absolutely agree with this. I think very few people are really "average" across the board. I think almost all people encounter at least one area in their life where they feel very different. By way of fairly random example, my various kids had three friends over today. One was almost 10 before she learned to read. One has serious difficulty understanding social boundaries, often finding himself rebuffed for reasons that aren't clear to him. The other girl just turned 11 and is still totally obsessed with the type of imaginary play abandoned by most children by age 6 or so. None of these kids would be considered intellectually gifted, but they have all felt very very different for a good portion of their childhoods. I think this is more normal than "normal".

Perhaps because my kids are unschooled, and many of their friends are as well, we have encountered more than our share of 'differentness' and a lot less of the apparent conformity that arises in age-levelled classrooms. Perhaps it also has something to do with the counter-culture-friendly area we live in. But for whatever reason, my kids have grown up believing "people are weird; their are no exceptions." Around here we think of weird almost as a term of affection. My kids are weird in their own ways -- they learn things more efficiently, earlier, more deeply, they have unusual interests for their ages. But almost everyone we know is weird in some way. I think that understanding how different everyone is not only helps them feel secure about their intellectual abilities but also helps them be empathetic friends and community citizens.

Miranda

[tiffani]

I just want to add one more thing to the OP...

Kudos to you for wanting to help your daughter feel positive about her gifts! I think that's really what you're getting at here, and it has sort of off-shot into a discussion about semantics, which are in fact pretty important in this case, but not really what you were originally asking about in the first place...

so yeah, help her understand that certain things come more easily to her than other people, but also help her understand that there will be things in her life that come more easily to other people -- in that sense, we are truly all gifted in one way or another. I guess that's why I don't like the term "gifted", as it implies that EVERYTHING should be easy to master, when EVERYONE comes across things that are hard for them, and for someone who believes they are generally gifted, that might be tough. Like someone else said, it's important, as well, for kids to see that everyone has value and is uniquely talented in some way or another -- they might be a really good friend, or be able to ride a unicycle, or be really funny, or whatever, but I want my kids to know that the ability to read or do calculus is no more valuable than any other gift that another person might have. I want my kids to be able to see the giftedness in everyone they meet. I think that's where the term "gifted" is problematic, because it sort of steals that word from the many other areas where people can be gifted. So to me, your dd currently shows a giftedness in reading, but I wouldn't extrapolate that into a generalization about her as a person, which could be internally hard for her and also socially difficult.

but that's just me! I'm sure you'll find the balance. enjoy the gifts!!

[no5no5]

Originally Posted by tiffani

I was thinking more along the lines of gifted individuals who are actually stunted by the gifted label and are perfectionists with a fear of failure.

I find it pretty ridiculous to say that anyone has ever been "stunted" by being labeled "gifted." People are labeled much worse things than that and are not "stunted." by it. I would even venture to say that to the extent that children are ever "stunted" by being labeled, it is because of the emotional abuse that goes along with the label, not because of the label itself. I just cannot see how an honest and loving discussion with a child can possibly result in the child being "stunted."

Originally Posted by tiffani

absolutely, but there is tremendous value in knowing how obnoxious it would be to go around stating how gifted you are. knowing and feeling good about it and broadcasting it are two different things. It doesn't need to be hidden, but I can't think of too many situations where it would need to be announced either.

I think I made it perfectly clear that I was not advocating writing it on the kid's forehead, but merely being free to discuss it should an appropriate situation arise.

I would also like to point out that, to the extent that gifted people do feel ashamed of being gifted (as you seem to have been), I think that discussing it openly might be an important step in moving past that. I am thinking of a friend of mine and how important it was to him to tell his friends and family members that he was gay. No, it didn't come up in conversation. No, he did not need to announce it. Yes, many of the people he told responded very negatively. But he did it anyway and when he did he experienced all the reactions he was dreading, he was able to let go of that fear and start to work through the shame he felt.

I would also rather make myself and others uncomfortable than be ashamed of myself and my DD and that part of who we both are.

Originally Posted by zeldamomma

Wouldn't it have been as helpful to learn that different people have different strengths and weaknesses (though it boggles my mind that you were unaware that not everyone learns at the same rate, it's always seemed as obvious to me as physical variations)? I think that everyone should know "that others, including adults, will not always understand what you need or what you are capable of, so that you can learn to advocate for yourself." I don't know my IQ, but I was labeled as gifted as a kid, and told I was smart a lot, but I don't think it helped me, since it didn't get me out of all the soul-crushing busy work.

Well, maybe I was just an extra-dense gifted kid. Yes, the fact that different people have strengths and weaknesses is an important component of any discussion about giftedness. When I discuss anything with my DD, I like to include the appropriate terminology. I suppose I will also include a discussion of what it means to have mental retardation. I will include a discussion of physical giftedness and physical impairments. I will include emotional and artistic, etc., giftedness and impairments. And I will attempt to use the appropriate words for all of those things.

Originally Posted by zeldamomma

Personally, we don't discuss "giftedness" with our kids, because I don't want them to get the idea that they are a special class of people who are better than everyone else, or that everything ought to be easy for them. IME, kids who are told they are smarter than most people hear "I am smarter than everyone else." and it affects the way they treat other kids.

I have never experienced that. I have experienced non-gifted kids making fun of gifted kids, but never the opposite. I'm not saying it doesn't happen; I'm just saying that it is not something that happens as a matter of course.

Originally Posted by eilonwy

Well, my friends might ask where I was going but none would ask why. Again, it's one of those obvious things like "Why are you knitting two mittens?" Perhaps your daughter is less obvious than Bean, or perhaps your friends don't know you as well as mine know me, but I can't imagine anyone asking, "Why would you go to a meeting of the Gifted & Talented Association?" They already know why.

I guess I wasn't clear. I didn't mean that they'd ask why you were going to the meeting. I was thinking more like they'd ask where you were going, you'd say the city, they'd ask why, and you'd say the meeting. My point, which I guess was totally unclear, was that I don't see a significant difference between saying that you are going to the gifted meeting an saying that you or your LO is gifted. It seems absolutely the same to me.

Originally Posted by eilonwy

As to "We decided to homeschool because..." That's something that's again very obvious to most people, and particularly anyone I'd consider a friend. If a stranger asks, "My child is atypical, and I didn't feel his needs would be met in a traditional classroom" is more than enough information. Again, it doesn't necessarily follow that highly gifted children won't have their needs met in school... and it sort of implies to me that average children always *do* have their needs met in school, which is far from the truth.

Of course there are many reasons to homeschool and of course some highly gifted children do fine in public school. But to the extent that we are considering homeschooling it is because DD is gifted. DH would greatly prefer sending her to public school to the extent that we can find one that will meet her needs. It is possible, but not probable.

I also think that there is a real need to raise awareness about the problems with gifted education in this country. And I have always believed that one of the best ways to raise awareness and increase tolerance is to just be open and honest with friends and neighbors and coworkers and even, sometimes, strangers. (Google Powell Hardwick clerk if you want an example.)

[Roar]

Originally Posted by no5no5

When I finally found out that I was PG, it totally changed how I saw the world, and everyone in it, and it was definitely for the better. I mean, until then I really thought that my peers were just as smart as I was but were either lazy or pretending to be dumb.

I think there is tremendous value in knowing that you have different abilities from other people. And I think there is great value in knowing that others, including adults, will not always understand what you need or what you are capable of, so that you can learn to advocate for yourself.

And, here I agree with you. Kids deserve that kind of information.
I think though it can be delivered in a way that doesn't not convey that you attribute everything they accomplish or are interested in to being gifted and in a way that doesn't say this is the way I define you to the world and it is my business to relate on your behalf.

At our house the way we talk about giftedness is pretty similar to the way we talk about other traits like introversion. I've never been a big fan of interjecting into conversations with other people "my child is behaving in this way because he's introverted." He'd be mortified if I did that in the same way he'd be mortified if I said "he can read the book about dinosaurs because he's gifted."

[no5no5]

Originally Posted by moominmamma

But for whatever reason, my kids have grown up believing "people are weird; their are no exceptions." Around here we think of weird almost as a term of affection. My kids are weird in their own ways -- they learn things more efficiently, earlier, more deeply, they have unusual interests for their ages. But almost everyone we know is weird in some way. I think that understanding how different everyone is not only helps them feel secure about their intellectual abilities but also helps them be empathetic friends and community citizens.

I knew I liked you, Miranda, but this just clinches it. I couldn't agree more.

Originally Posted by tiffani

I just want to add one more thing to the OP...

Kudos to you for wanting to help your daughter feel positive about her gifts! I think that's really what you're getting at here, and it has sort of off-shot into a discussion about semantics, which are in fact pretty important in this case, but not really what you were originally asking about in the first place...

so yeah, help her understand that certain things come more easily to her than other people, but also help her understand that there will be things in her life that come more easily to other people -- in that sense, we are truly all gifted in one way or another. I guess that's why I don't like the term "gifted", as it implies that EVERYTHING should be easy to master, when EVERYONE comes across things that are hard for them, and for someone who believes they are generally gifted, that might be tough. Like someone else said, it's important, as well, for kids to see that everyone has value and is uniquely talented in some way or another -- they might be a really good friend, or be able to ride a unicycle, or be really funny, or whatever, but I want my kids to know that the ability to read or do calculus is no more valuable than any other gift that another person might have. I want my kids to be able to see the giftedness in everyone they meet. I think that's where the term "gifted" is problematic, because it sort of steals that word from the many other areas where people can be gifted. So to me, your dd currently shows a giftedness in reading, but I wouldn't extrapolate that into a generalization about her as a person, which could be internally hard for her and also socially difficult.

but that's just me! I'm sure you'll find the balance. enjoy the gifts!!

Thank you. I do not subscribe to the idea that everyone is gifted. But I do believe that everyone is different and that everyone is amazing. And I hope that DD understands that when she is old enough. (If she isn't already.)

[eilonwy]

Originally Posted by no5no5

Of course there are many reasons to homeschool and of course some highly gifted children do fine in public school. But to the extent that we are considering homeschooling it is because DD is gifted. DH would greatly prefer sending her to public school to the extent that we can find one that will meet her needs. It is possible, but not probable.

True... but what's wrong with saying, "My child's needs are unlikely to be met in a typical classroom?"

I also think that there is a real need to raise awareness about the problems with gifted education in this country. And I have always believed that one of the best ways to raise awareness and increase tolerance is to just be open and honest with friends and neighbors and coworkers and even, sometimes, strangers. (Google Powell Hardwick clerk if you want an example.)

Oh, I'm inclined to agree with this, but I don't see what it has to do, necessarily, with your child answering questions with "I'm gifted." I can rant and rave about the state of gifted education in this country, but again... nobody's ever asked me why I have such strong feelings about it, nor why I feel the need to raise awareness. I can think of a few occasions when the term "exceptional learner" has come up, but that refers to kids on both ends of the spectrum so... I guess I'm still confused.

[no5no5]

Originally Posted by eilonwy

True... but what's wrong with saying, "My child's needs are unlikely to be met in a typical classroom?"

Nothing is wrong with it, except that it is almost entirely uninformative. It sends the message that you are uncomfortable talking about homeschooling, which would not be the case for me.

Originally Posted by eilonwy

Oh, I'm inclined to agree with this, but I don't see what it has to do, necessarily, with your child answering questions with "I'm gifted." I can rant and rave about the state of gifted education in this country, but again... nobody's ever asked me why I have such strong feelings about it, nor why I feel the need to raise awareness. I can think of a few occasions when the term "exceptional learner" has come up, but that refers to kids on both ends of the spectrum so... I guess I'm still confused.

My point is that being open about who you are and the issues you are facing is a more effective way of raising awareness and acceptance than ranting and raving. And it has nothing to do with whether DD does or does not tell anyone what she is gifted. I would not presume to tell her what to do in that regard. I am saying that I want to be open about it in part to help her feel free to be open about it if she so desires.

[Roar]

Originally Posted by no5no5

I just cannot see how an honest and loving discussion with a child can possibly result in the child being "stunted."

Not a fan of the word stunted but setting that aside for a minute, I'm wondering if you see any difference between a private discussion with your kid and how you choose to describe your child (not in an educational setting but say in conversation with an acquaintance who observed your child reading). Do you think there is any possibility that hearing a parent frequently describe a child as gifted could ever feel like a kind of pressure or feel like "wow this is very important to my mom."

Maybe we are imagining different conversations. Our child is 13 and really I can't think of maybe two conversations outside of gifted organization specific activities where it really came up. Things (like college or like particular books) that may relate to giftedness have come up but I can't really think of a situation in which the need (or even the want) to say "my kid is gifted" has ever really happened. Maybe I'm lacking in imagination though.

Unfortunately the times in a nongifted organization setting where I've heard people refer to their kids as gifted it was typically that the parent was either eat up with it or using it as an excuse as in "yes, junior acts like a jerk in class but he can't help it because he's gifted and bored." Maybe in an ideal world these discussions would be more plentiful or easier, but as it stands, especially in the homeschooling community, I'd prefer not to lead with it. We've had very few negative experiences in relationship to giftedness and I believe some of that is because we are comfortable with it and let other people figure it out - and they do.

The transition from discomfort to evangelism is a pretty natural part of the evolution to "coming out" for folks in all sorts of ways. I think the key is to just not get stuck there as the end place but allow homeschooling/giftedness or whatever to be an integrated part of identity... and to allow the kid to make it their own in ways that feel comfortable to them.