the view from here - Page 5

[AJP]

Originally Posted by newcastlemama

It makes me feel like my dh and I are in on a big happy secret or we are getting away with something.....

The secret is that you don't have to volunteer to be a lab rat, or subject your kids to it. I feel that same way, and I wish it wasn't a secret! I feel sad for people who are ground down by that routine but don't think they can opt out.

[Lillian J]

Deleted - OT

[Anglyn]

Originally Posted by Lillian J

I guess you didn't take that incident to the administration, or you would have mentioned it - but I sure wish it had gone to the top and blown up on her. How crude and despicable. - Lillian

I remember having this happen to me in school. Seems pretty common. I wonder why? Surely they know teenage girls will have this issue and how humiliating it would be to have to announce it to everyone??

[Storm Bride]

You know, I wouldn't have had an "accident" with a pad or tampon, because I'd have just walked out if I hadn't had "permission" to use the bathroom. From my adult perspective, it seems very strange that I was labelled as having an "attitude problem" because of things like this. I don't want to have blood running down my legs and staining my jeans, and my teacher's on a power trip...but I had an "attitude problem"??

Mind you, I don't recall any of our teachers - or our policy - being quite that unfriendly to teens, but I do think the schools do things in a really screwy way where self-conscious teenagers are concerned. (One of my favourites was the way they discontinued show and tell in grade 1 or 2...then brought back oral reports, just as the boys were worrying about spontaneous erctions and the girls were sprouting breasts - obviously, the perfect time to start having them stand up in front of the class!)

[joy_seeker]

In reading many of these things I have an observation from the other side... as a former teacher I know why many of these decisions are made, what seems like a power trip is often just an effort to maintain order. Don't get me wrong some teachers ARE on a power trip, but not all. But this is the problem, even good teachers have the same ridiculous rules because they are necessary within the system that exists.

The sheer volume of kids coming through with time constraints in place to teach an expanding curriculum is nearly impossible. I don't think this excuses the behavior, it just stands as proof that schools themselves are the problem. Even the best teacher in the world would have a difficult time teaching in a classroom setting without some rules that are simply ridiculous on RL.

This is just further proof to me that schools don't work and home is the better option.

[Marimami]

I'm still new around the homeschooling forum... DD isn't really "school age" but I know we're going to be unschoolers (not radical though).. but I keep thinking about mine and DH's schooling experiences.

All my self esteem came from how well I did academically. I did everything I was supposed to and more academically. All my teachers loved me, but I never quite fit in amongst my classmates. I never could fit in with any particular group so I was just on the outskirts of everything usually. But, I had universally wonderful teachers. Even the ones other kids hated because they were more strict or tough, I was able to connect. I feel so appreciative of my public school education. But, I also am fully aware that I was in kindergarten 35 years ago and everything has changed! (My gosh do I feel really old writing that sentence!) Plus, when I realize how traumatic it was for me when I quit my PhD program (because I was miserable), I realize how much of my "self" was hung up on academic prowess, and I was clinically depressed and was digging myself into a hole I never would have crawled out of. I never want my daughter to have her whole sense of self so tied up in her academic performance.

DH is one of those extremely gifted people that never fit in at school. They never knew what to do with him. His parents handled it poorly (IMO) but DH and I had this realization the other night that his parents basically radically unschooled him beginning in 10th grade. Unfortunately, I think they approached it from a "we-have-no-idea-what-else-to-do" perspective than from a warm and supportive one.

Holli

[Storm Bride]

Originally Posted by joy_seeker

In reading many of these things I have an observation from the other side... as a former teacher I know why many of these decisions are made, what seems like a power trip is often just an effort to maintain order. Don't get me wrong some teachers ARE on a power trip, but not all. But this is the problem, even good teachers have the same ridiculous rules because they are necessary within the system that exists.

The sheer volume of kids coming through with time constraints in place to teach an expanding curriculum is nearly impossible. I don't think this excuses the behavior, it just stands as proof that schools themselves are the problem. Even the best teacher in the world would have a difficult time teaching in a classroom setting without some rules that are simply ridiculous on RL.

This is just further proof to me that schools don't work and home is the better option.

You know...I'm not trying to start an argument, but I can't think of any reason that justifies requiring a student to explain why they want to go to the bathroom...not one. The whole asking permission thing kind of creeps me out, too, especially at the high school level, but I can understand why that rule exists. I can't see any reason to ask someone why they want to go to the bathroom, especially in front of a whole class.

[momtokea]

Originally Posted by Storm Bride

You know...I'm not trying to start an argument, but I can't think of any reason that justifies requiring a student to explain why they want to go to the bathroom...not one. The whole asking permission thing kind of creeps me out, too, especially at the high school level, but I can understand why that rule exists. I can't see any reason to ask someone why they want to go to the bathroom, especially in front of a whole class.

Agree.

My cousin teaches junior high school and she had a girl who asked to go to the bathroom often. One day my cousin asked her, in front of the whole class, "What's wrong, do you have a bladder problem or something?" She was assuming it was a harmless joke, but the next day she gets a call from the girl's mother explaining that yes, there is an issue and to please allow her to go to the bathroom whenever she needs.
Some humble pie for the teacher.

[joy_seeker]

Originally Posted by Storm Bride

You know...I'm not trying to start an argument, but I can't think of any reason that justifies requiring a student to explain why they want to go to the bathroom...not one. The whole asking permission thing kind of creeps me out, too, especially at the high school level, but I can understand why that rule exists. I can't see any reason to ask someone why they want to go to the bathroom, especially in front of a whole class.

No, I don't perceive your comment as argumentative at all. I am not saying that it is right or that its okay... my point was that even the best teachers have been bogged down by the system itself. Some of them do a better job of working within that system but it is still a system that they must adhere to. You are absolutely correct that some teachers take the power too far (which I stated in my PP) those are the teachers who are asking why and making an already broken system even worse.

My original point, which I don't think I stated clearly, was that the act of asking permission at all to use the restroom is in and of itself strange, after all it is my body, why would I need permission from an outside source. Yet permission to leave the room, not just to excuse yourself, as you would in a meeting at an office for example, is deemed necessary within the system. Even the most well-intentioned teacher can't change that because they have a limited amount of time to convey the information that is required.

It's late and I'm still not sure if I made my point but I think it is a false assumption to blame teachers because it implies that the right teachers would fix the problem. I don't think schools can be fixed as they currently exist, no matter who the teacher is.

[doublyblessed]

i have always viewed life in this way-the view, i mean (i'm not posting about teachers or PP's about that...)...i am a sociologist at heart! i get very sad about how people are, though... so many 'rules' about etiquette and gender roles and what we wear, what words are 'bad' vs. 'ok'...etc. is just ridiculous to me... my latest saying is 'says WHO?!' and 'really......WHOSE life are we living anyway.................?!' 'whose rules are these???' it makes me sad and empowered at the same time................................so now how to live out my truth along these lines....................against the grain. not always easy to deal w/ people, ya know?! i love being different though...one of the unschooling pioneers, like AJP said in last post...i totally feel like this..................................scared and motivated at the same time...

[Aubergine68]

Originally Posted by scoobymummy

I remember one of the early years programs commenting that 'you know this isn't a coffee klatch for mothers - they're meant to be actively communicating with their babies. Like moms don't do that all the time. Seriously, what moms of babies and tots really need is a place to sit on the couch with a cup of coffee and chat with other parents in the same situation to get some perspective and ideas on how to cope.

We have Parent Link centres here, modeled on your Early Years centres : This is *exactly* the problem I had with the attitude of staff a couple years back One encounters it at a school level, too, for sure, the attitude that parents need "experts" to facilitate their relationships with their own children, when, yes, what we really usually need is the support of our own peers, if indeed we need anything at all...

Originally Posted by Marimami

All my self esteem came from how well I did academically. I did everything I was supposed to and more academically. All my teachers loved me, but I never quite fit in amongst my classmates. I never could fit in with any particular group so I was just on the outskirts of everything usually. But, I had universally wonderful teachers. Even the ones other kids hated because they were more strict or tough, I was able to connect. I feel so appreciative of my public school education. But, I also am fully aware that I was in kindergarten 35 years ago and everything has changed! (My gosh do I feel really old writing that sentence!) Plus, when I realize how traumatic it was for me when I quit my PhD program (because I was miserable), I realize how much of my "self" was hung up on academic prowess, and I was clinically depressed and was digging myself into a hole I never would have crawled out of. I never want my daughter to have her whole sense of self so tied up in her academic performance.

DH is one of those extremely gifted people that never fit in at school. They never knew what to do with him. His parents handled it poorly (IMO) but DH and I had this realization the other night that his parents basically radically unschooled him beginning in 10th grade. Unfortunately, I think they approached it from a "we-have-no-idea-what-else-to-do" perspective than from a warm and supportive one.

Wow, I could have written this, pretty much word for word.....

I feel like I wasted a LOT of time being a good student. Well not wasted, totally, but I would rather have been raised to be an independent learner.

[UrbanSimplicity]

Originally Posted by kikidee

I'm not homeschooling (yet) but it has seemed like a foreign concept to me when DD's friends have started preschool at age 2.

This actually was the first thing to happen that made me think "hmmm" -- it was the first time I realized I had a different mindset about schooling, and it was the first time I seriously started wondering what all this crazy homeschool stuff was about.

Same here. At age 3, ALL of dd's friends are in school, at least the more mainstream ones that we've had playdates with since 3 months old. Even in our small homeschool group most of the kids do Waldorf school a few days a week or are planning on staring school next year.

I first noticed this "view from here" as the op calls it when i saw television while in my doctor's waiting room a few months ago...i have not watched tv for about 3 years. It was the Ellen Degeneris (sp?) show and she was talking about all the celebrities and making people guess that celebrities' names and I had NO clue who anyone was and it all seemed so strange and even cult-ish. And the commercials! Ugh!

[UrbanSimplicity]

Originally Posted by Kylix

Not only is there preschool for 2 year olds, it is thought of as a good thing.
What's next?

Kylix

IMO, a 2yo does not go the 'school' they go to daycare.

[mommy68]

Originally Posted by Storm Bride

You know...I'm not trying to start an argument, but I can't think of any reason that justifies requiring a student to explain why they want to go to the bathroom...not one. The whole asking permission thing kind of creeps me out, too, especially at the high school level, but I can understand why that rule exists. I can't see any reason to ask someone why they want to go to the bathroom, especially in front of a whole class.

I agree. That's just one of the many things I'm glad my kids don't have to worry about. It seems so odd now that they've been home for so long to think about them asking to do anything like going to the bathroom, fixing a meal or a snack, going outside to play. In our house they just do it. I just can't imagine sending them back to a school to sit at a desk in a room full of kids their age for 6-7 hours each day where they aren't free to voice their opinion or get up and go do what they want whenever they feel like it. That type of atmosphere seems so abnormal to me now.

[hipumpkins]

People who homeschool don't assume to know everything about a person simply b/c they send their kids to school...but many people assume lots of things about you when you homeschool.

[philia]

Full Day K

I always thought I would home school until Pre K and now I am moving it up to K. I am so saddened by full day K. I think it is nonsense. I am looking for a cottage school for K and will go from there. Full day is for the birds. I can't imagine just spending time with my kids after school and they would be exhausted. I feel like you almost give up raising your kids when they go off for that long. What do you know about Dorothy Sayre schools ?
Philia

[kikidee]

Originally Posted by Marimami

I'm still new around the homeschooling forum... DD isn't really "school age" but I know we're going to be unschoolers (not radical though).. but I keep thinking about mine and DH's schooling experiences.

All my self esteem came from how well I did academically. I did everything I was supposed to and more academically. All my teachers loved me, but I never quite fit in amongst my classmates. I never could fit in with any particular group so I was just on the outskirts of everything usually. But, I had universally wonderful teachers. Even the ones other kids hated because they were more strict or tough, I was able to connect. I feel so appreciative of my public school education. But, I also am fully aware that I was in kindergarten 35 years ago and everything has changed! (My gosh do I feel really old writing that sentence!) Plus, when I realize how traumatic it was for me when I quit my PhD program (because I was miserable), I realize how much of my "self" was hung up on academic prowess, and I was clinically depressed and was digging myself into a hole I never would have crawled out of. I never want my daughter to have her whole sense of self so tied up in her academic performance.

Wow. This post really spoke to me. I had a similar public school experience - LOVED most of my teachers, and also got along well with the ones others hated. I had a tough time emotionally in college outside of the structured classroom setting. I didn't fully realize that until reading your post! Thanks for opening my eyes to that.

It's so easy to get hung up on your self-worth being tied up in academics. Thriving on teachers/parents being proud of your grades - it's a wonderful feeling, but it's not the real world. How much better is it to feel that thrill from learning something, just for the joy of learning? Instead of having the joy tied up in the letter grade?

Hmm... you gave me lots to think about.

[Storm Bride]

Originally Posted by Aubergine68

We have Parent Link centres here, modeled on your Early Years centres : This is *exactly* the problem I had with the attitude of staff a couple years back One encounters it at a school level, too, for sure, the attitude that parents need "experts" to facilitate their relationships with their own children, when, yes, what we really usually need is the support of our own peers, if indeed we need anything at all...

We have a parent/child drop-in centre just down the block. I see the moms and little ones out playing at the playground sometimes, and think I should drop by...but I never do. I only recently realized why. The signs around the neighbourhood promoting the drop-in all make a point of emphasizing that the "facilitators" are on hand to answer any questions you might have, etc. etc. etc. I'm not looking for answers to questions - I was just looking for some other people with young kids that I could spend some time with, while our children play. I find the whole idea of "facilitators" to assist me with my parenting kind of...creepy...


I thought of another "view from here" thing today. Exercise. It creeps me out how our whole society sees exercise as something you schedule in as a completely separate activity from the rest of your life. I think it starts with PE classes, and a lot of the "learning outcomes" kids are supposed to get from those classes. Exercise isn't about walking to the store, or going out for a family bike ride/hike, combined with a picnic. It's about driving to the store, to make sure you get back in time to go to the gym. Boggles me...

[scoobymummy]

ooooooooo hated that...

>>>>>The signs around the neighbourhood promoting the drop-in all make a point of emphasizing that the "facilitators" are on hand to answer any questions you might have, etc. etc. etc. I'm not looking for answers to questions - I was just looking for some other people with young kids that I could spend some time with, while our children play. I find the whole idea of "facilitators" to assist me with my parenting kind of...creepy...>>>>>


Ooooo....I so hated that. I'd hear these ''facilitators'' telling mothers how to discipline their children and I'd wonder about their qualifications....I mean, what kind of training do you have that gives you the right to tell me how to raise my kid? I always wonder that about the parenting books out there. Sometimes you read the author's bio and you realize they have very little real life experience. The only 'expert' I listen to is a mom I know who has raised 11 lovely children....that's some real life experience. There's no way I'm goign to listen to a 'facilitator' who's likely got an ECE degree, raised a couple of kids and read a few books.

[newcastlemama]

Originally Posted by Storm Bride

I thought of another "view from here" thing today. Exercise. It creeps me out how our whole society sees exercise as something you schedule in as a completely separate activity from the rest of your life. I think it starts with PE classes, and a lot of the "learning outcomes" kids are supposed to get from those classes. Exercise isn't about walking to the store, or going out for a family bike ride/hike, combined with a picnic. It's about driving to the store, to make sure you get back in time to go to the gym. Boggles me...

Yeah about exercise. I feel like I am always moving/standing/lifting/walking/cleaning/playing...then I feel guilty when I don't "work out".

On the facilitator note...I know someone who has a preachool teacher come into their home and "work with" her 3 yo and 6 mo old because the older one does not attend preschool anymore. I hope they are not paying because they seem to be of limited means..I wanted to tell her that her kids will be okay without a "professional" to interact with them.

I feel like all the professionals are trying to take over the role of mother...telling me what exactly to do with my children--from their bodies to their minds. I want to say just back off and let me nurture them! Even the government is in on this with all the promotion of preschool. Why don't I just birth my baby into their arms since they know best!

(well, I am in a fun mood )