Almost 5yo dd has me burnt out......

[goosysmom]

My dd1 will be 5 end of next month....

She is so bossy.

She refuses to listen to me but will listen to her preschool teacher, the child care area where I take her to play at Macy's so I can have an hour to just walk around, the girl who runs the child area at the grocery.......The minute she leaves each place, literally, it's like her ears become filled with concrete to anything I say or ask her to do...but I get GLOWING, glorious compliments on how well behaved she is, how it's such a joy to have her, she's fantastic, plays great, listens great etc.....

If I tell her no about something, even if it's not right now, you will need to wait a few minutes (so I can finish changing her sister, finish using the bathroom) she will stand and stomp her feet and scream at the top of her lungs and it's piercing......

She refuses to pick up a single toy......or anything for that matter that she's played with. I tried taking things away, limiting things, not allowing things and it doesn't seem to matter. I got fed up the other day and took all the toys in her room and her books that I was tired of seeing scattered everywhere and just plain tired of picking up and boxed them up and they are in the garage. I feel bad about it now but I reached a breaking point.

I'm just so tired of her whining, screeching, tantrums. Things I would expect out of her 19mo old sister.....over simple things.....her sock is twisted, she didn't rip the page out of her coloring book the way she wanted to, we're having chicken and not turkey, the tip of her crayon broke, her sister took a toy from her, I say it's bedtime, I tell her she can't have a snack 5 minutes after eating lunch that she needs to wait a bit.......I just want to close my ears and run away.

It's like when she turned 3 a switch went on inside her somewhere and I can't seem to find the dimmer switch for it. Everything is so dramatic....so over emotional.......and it's just wearing thin. It's been 2 years of it.....and I don't know how much more I can handle without it dimming a bit. She was a high need baby but isn't really a high need preschooler. And it's only when she's home. And it's frustrating.......so frustrating. She LOVES the girl who runs the area at the grocery store. Sometimes I take her so she can just go and play and then her sister and I sit in the cafe area and share a hot chocolate and a cookie (and get a hot chocolate to go for her sister)......and I can peek in and she plays so well, listens so well. I sign her out and she runs through the produce department and won't listen......and Valerie (the girl who runs the care area) is always shocked bc it's like she's a different kid with me.

I am just at the end of my rope with it. My friend said, "it's just bc she's so smart. Smart kids are always over testing boundries..." Um. Ok.

I need a break from it but don't get one....more than an hour here or there.

I don't drive. I was in a car accident a few years ago and it ruined my depth perception (i don't walk into walls or anything but.....I can't drive.) when my head hit the windshield. And we are in a part of town that's very nice but there isn't anything within walking distance except a very expensive gym and a bar.

DP works M-F 730a-530p and when he gets home we have dinner and he goes out to the garage or upstairs and that's that. He does get her ready for bed these days bc she doesn't want me doing it....I don't brush her teeth the same way daddy does or read stories the same way.....which is fine. She gets great daddy time that way. It's about the only daddy time she gets bc he also goes into work on Saturdays from 8-3 so he can get overtime he says but I think it's so he doesn't have to be here dealing with her....he deals with it by going upstairs and closing the door....leaving me to deal with it.

If I do make it out for a few hours with a friend....he views watching the girls as babysitting and not spending time with his children......but that's another post for another day......

I've read the high needs books, the active child books and have applied all that I can but nothing seems to work......

But the whining, bossy, beligerant tantrum throwing child needs to mellow out a bit. I want my mostly chill, inquisitive child back...I miss her.

When she is mellow a bit she is the sweetest, kindest most empathetic little girl......an old soul......and I miss that. I rarely see it these days.....

Any advice? Suggestions??

Thanks for reading. I know this got long.

There are quiet times when we cook, bake, color, paint, read and it's wonderful. I know *some* of it IS age appropriate......and I get that, and understand it...but it's all so over the top.

[goosysmom]

I wanted to add that we do alot of tactile things...rice n bowls, beans in bowls, homemade playdough, sand etc......She has a drum she can play in her room for music or frustration.........

She gets enough sleep.....she never slept as a baby or a toddler but around 4 started falling into a nice schedule that suits her well....It's the one time during the day where she transitions well, where she has patience........

She's ALWAYS eating......saying she's always hungry.....I keep fresh cut veggies and fruit on hand and other things that are high on the list of good things that will satiate her....(totally spelled that wrong)...so I know it's not hunger...she eats like a high school linebacker....)

There are days where I KNOW she needs a nap but she gave those up in the daytime completly at 28 months......her younger sister is also trying to phase them out at 20 months.

She doesn't eat alot of dairy, we don't eat alot of processed food or food with dyes.....

But like I said, it's only when she's home.....or out with us....she is better with me out than with her father, esp if we are going out to eat and whatnot.....


I'm also as GD as they come but I'm finding myself yelling more and more and louder and louder bc that seems to be the only way to catch her attention these days unless I physically go up to her, get on my knees and and grab her arms (firmly but not hard)....and she'll stop but still try to throw the tantrum. I talk to her calmly, look her in the eyes about why I am doing it, why she being asked to calm down etc....and she hugs me and says sorry but then 15 minutes later we start all over again.

I love her to pieces she's just a bit harder to love these days but I do....and I feel so awful saying that.......

[ani'smommy]

I am really really looking forward to reading your replies. My DD is much the same way. . . bossy, bratty, will NOT listen to anything, has to negotiate every single little thing.

I feel awful about it, too, and miss my high-needs, yet sweet, funny little girl. I also have a younger DS who is a very happy-go-lucky, honey of a baby. It makes the contrast very stark.

I am praying that this is a phase and will go away -- my DD is like yours: when 3 hit, it was like she turned into another person. Sigh.

I have the same problem with yelling -- I honestly don't know how else to get her attention. If I try to touch her, she freaks out and claims that I'm hurting her -- or she'll suddenly pull away and smack her arm into the bookshelf or something and actually will get hurt.

[goosysmom]

Hugs mama. I've seen a bunch of reads but just your reply....LOL.

I am praying it's a phase too but it's been such a long one......and I'm so tired........

We went to my friends house tonight to visit with her and her daughter (they were born on the same day.....she is bossy too but she is VERY spoiled and I expect it....if that makes sense) bc another friend of ours was in town with her little girl (a few weeks older.....who isn't as bossy but tattles like you wouldn't believe...lol)....and she was FANTASTIC. She listened, helped pick up the toys they all played with, if she was running and I asked her to stop she did......and inside my brain was like wtf?.......who are you???

Once we got home, she stopped listening......wouldn't get ready for bed......and I know part of it was she was overtired and had played hard but I am tired. It took 20 minutes to get her to bed. Then the little one started crying and kicked at me when I tried to change her and then she wanted to nurse.......and it took 20 minutes to get down....I had to use the restroom 5 minutes from home. I didn't get to use it until 45 minutes after I got home. It's just all at once, all the time.....

I know some will ask, where was DP at the time?? He was on the phone with his mother....in our bedroom. I opened the door so I knew he heard what was going on and said, "you need to call your mother back and talk to her about your brother. i'm sure it's nothing different than the conversation you guys had last weekend regarding it...and i don't forsee it changing in the next 10 minutes...." and he just looked at me...I was like really???? If I had had the energy or the gumption, I would've gone in and unplugged the phone.....but I'm tired today. SO I just left the door open and took care of the girls.

Oh, and I hear you on the negotiating of everything....I have gone as far though as saying something like, "if you pick up 5 books or whatever needs picked up she yanked out, I will do this (whatever she wants to do) but you have to pick up the 5 things first...we can count 1-5 or 5-1 you can choose." but she just stomps her foot.....and screams......

to you. lots of em.

[ThreeJane]

I have no advice for you . I have an almost six drama queen myself. The world is ending if she can't get the strap on her shoe straight. And other equally trivial (to me) things.

Her brother could hit her in the head with a baseball bat or she can't find the orange crayon, both have equal weight and equal drama.

so to you, I'm in the same boat. (and I have three girls and one boy)

[jtbuko]

I wish there were more replies for you... and wish I had more advice for you.

Ever since he turned 3 my 5.5 yr old DS seems to swing back and forth from a centered cooperative place to a cantankerous uncooperative place... we are in the latter now which drove me over to MDC to commiserate. It IS nice to not be the only one.

I hope tomorrow is easier for you all!

[mommahhh]

Mine is 6 and can be quite the drama queen too. Sometimes I feel like she might have a mood disorder or something. It is so hard, mama, I know. The moodiness, the tantrums, the arguing...it really really wears you down. And I don't know about you, but I am terrified of the teen years!! My biggest issue seems to be that I find it hard to be "unconditional". I love her so much, but when she acts like a complete pill (and especially when she embarrasses me in public), I want to scream.

Lets hope this is just a stage and next year will be better.

[madskye]

I only have a 3 year old, so not really any good advice but reading your post I thought your daughter sounds like she is being a little needy--so it was interesting that you mentioned that she used to be high needs. Perhaps she still is, but her needs have shifted? I know my daughter is great as long as she is occupied/or attention is being paid to her and the other times are not fun. And it kind of stinks, but I think it's normal.

This is very conventional wisdom, but would you be able to have any special 1on1 time with her? I try to take some time with my daughter each week to just be, and even if we just watch tv together or fold laundry, make sure it's 2 hours where we are not fighting so we can reconnect. It doesn't make her any less difficult at other times, but it helps me realize that YES, she still is a little sweetheart even though she's been giving me H-E-Double Hockeysticks.\

I just keep telling myself that the only thing you can count on is change, and this will pass and we'll be on to the next thing soon enough.

[Purple Sage]

Originally Posted by ThreeJane

I have no advice for you . I have an almost six drama queen myself. The world is ending if she can't get the strap on her shoe straight. And other equally trivial (to me) things.

Her brother could hit her in the head with a baseball bat or she can't find the orange crayon, both have equal weight and equal drama.

so to you, I'm in the same boat. (and I have three girls and one boy)

I could have written this post word for word.

Originally Posted by mommahhh

Mine is 6 and can be quite the drama queen too. Sometimes I feel like she might have a mood disorder or something. It is so hard, mama, I know. The moodiness, the tantrums, the arguing...it really really wears you down. And I don't know about you, but I am terrified of the teen years!! My biggest issue seems to be that I find it hard to be "unconditional". I love her so much, but when she acts like a complete pill (and especially when she embarrasses me in public), I want to scream.

Lets hope this is just a stage and next year will be better.

This one, too.

Today has been one of those days. It's tough.

[snowgirl]

I am kind of going through similar things with an almost 5yo dd. The other day, she was melting, I reached deep inside me to find patience, I consoled her then asked her if she wanted to snuggle and nurse. She melted in my arms, she seemed so overwhelmed and just needed some help settling. My point is, I am wondering if our LO's need us, our undivided attention for a few moments. The transition to family of 4 about 4-1/2 months ago has gone easier than expected. But, I am noticing how she is needing me too and it is hard for so much attention to go to a 4 mo old. So, when ds is napping, I try to make time to connect with her. And usually that is a few moments of snuggling, it seems to really work.
HTH!

[meemee]

i will come back and write later.

i am in the same boat as you. rather i was, but now that my dd is 6 1/2 she is much better but does have her moments.

louise m bates series 'your 5 year old' is a good book to read.

what she is doing is v. age appropriate behaviour.

it is also what i call the changing of parenting. before this we have been calling all the shots mostly. now its time to let them call the shots too.

personally i enjoyed this phase. it is hard for sure, but once you get a handle on it - it is not quite as bad.

ETA 5 is a really hard emotional age and they are going thru a lot of emotional growth spurts too. what they need help with is dealing with the emotional - some support - but also help with dealing with it and drawing a line and not making it get even worse with teh support.

[LauraLoo]

Wow. I can so relate to the OP.

The Bates series has been recommended to me before, I am going to look into it now! I'm glad to know that this seems age appropriate because it's really hard for me to second guess what I am or am not doing right.

I guess the good thing is that, similar to the OP's dd, my dd *can* be respectful and cooperative when she chooses. I just wish that she'd choose it more of the time. When I ask her how she thinks I feel when she is in one of her moods, she can accurately tell me that she knows it makes me feel crappy.

The only thing that seemed to help soften this in the past is having her dictate to me in her journal. Some of the stories were about mean mommies which aren't necessarily fun to hear, but it seemed to help get some of this stuff out of her system. I'm going to see if she wants to dictate a story to me today.

[Brookesmom]

Originally Posted by mommahhh

Mine is 6 and can be quite the drama queen too. Sometimes I feel like she might have a mood disorder or something. It is so hard, mama, I know. The moodiness, the tantrums, the arguing...it really really wears you down. And I don't know about you, but I am terrified of the teen years!! ...

Lets hope this is just a stage and next year will be better.

I don't have any suggestions yet. I came searching here for answers too! This could be my 6 six year old daughter. She has taken to screaming and yelling "I can't stop crying, I can't stop, somebody help me" like she's having an anxiety attack. It usually happens when she isn't getting her way or was reprimanded for hitting or brother or something similar. It's like she can't handle any type of "criticism" or what she perceives as criticism... She can be pretty mean to her little brother when I'm in the other room and then when I give her a time out for it, that just reinforces to her that I'm taking his side, she says. She is almost twice his size though. Sigh...

[Brookesmom]

So, anyone have good books to recommend?

[darcytrue]

I have no advice either. My DD has always been high maintenance (bossy, stubborn, and has sensory issues). She is soon to be 7. Her older brother was never like her, still isn't and he's a teenager. She is getting better, especially with the discipline we use so it's getting a little better. Plus, I h/s my kids and being home all day makes her much easier to get along with. Last year when she was in kindergarten outside the home it was almost unbearable in the evenings after school. She is a very easily stressed child.

[meemee]

treat this as a first stage teenagerhood.

treat this as your kid having a really hard time with EVERYTHING.

what they need help with is how to deal with this themselves by empathy but also not letting them dwell too deeply in it so that it goes to teh point of no return and THEN they really lose control and cant stop the behaviour.

it is a v. emotional time for them.

the focus is 'the I' and the need for independence. and the help of the parent to give them the independence but for parents to make the judgement call that its not too much.

i have always seen any bad behaviour as a cry for help.

just because you see all the 'bad' remember it is temporary. it does not mean that that is what your child is going to grow up to be.

see it as trying to figure out how to fit into society.

its also the most important time for us to look at our own parenting. to me that is teh toughest at this time. the letting go. the realisation that my dd is growing up and needs to make many more decisions on her own. BUT having given her the opportunity i also see how much she has surprised me with what she can do or choose to do.

also i have noticed in my v. limited expereince that these usually affect children with anxiety. who have a short fuse. seems to affect them the most. makes their behaviour the worst. its not easy to see anxiety in a child, but you'd be so surprised how much stress a child gets overwhelmed by.

for myself i first had to get into my dd's shoes and try adn see the world through her eyes. i had to let all this behaviour create compassion in me rather than frustration.

for them life still revolves around them. this is the transition period when they realise that life really does not revolve around them. (all these symptoms of behaviour i would guess is mostly in our country where we lead such individualistic lives. its not the norm where there is more of a community involved in raising the child in other countries. for instance in third world countries stranger anxiety is rare rather than a norm.)

SNOWGIRL you are ABSOLUTELY RIGHT. they really need us at this time for emotional support whatever that emotional support looks like for them.

the key is for us to try and ignore the mean tone in their voice/writing. their senses are really heightened and so they cant make good judgement calls. so everything - even a small thing is bad. and who is the worst person on the earth for them? mommy of course. she is the one they are mostly interacting with and seh is the one carrying out the discipline, the guidance. for instance my dd accused me of yellign at her too much. so we made a chart for me for my yelling. and we abandoned the project after 2 months when she discovered i only yelled maybe once or twice a month. if even that. but to her she was so hurt with that yelling that it felt like i was doing it much more often. she was surprised with that finding.

the bossiness towards me - i let that slide. i consider myself as free venting ground. i also find most of her bossiness is around me. mind you though this is just me and her. no sibling or daddy involved in this house.

anytime i talk to her i dont talk to her in an accusing tone. instead of saying dont be so rude, i tell her the way you are talkign to me really hurts my feeling. i would really appreciate it if you could change your tone of voice. BUT i have to be careful when i am saying this. she may not be able to hear. all those toddler things of enough sleep, enough food, enough physical exercise still plays a HUGE if not a bigger role now. when they are hitting adn screaming - but they are beyond the point to listen - then you do the best you can to protect yourself and others. not take that as a moment to explain or talk. sometimes you have to send them to their room, sometimes you have to stay close to them and let them know you are available.

hang in there. i keep telling myself, if i can get through this then the teens should be a piece of cake right?!!!!!! :embarrased:

[momof3soon]

My 3 and 4 year old does the same thing

[Brookesmom]

some good advice... I do think it is anxiety in my DD although she sure gets it very easily IMHO, especially if she hasn't had 11 hours of sleep or more! (and she doesn't want to go to bed before us so we're all adapting to her 9 pm bedtime) My DD is 6 1/2 now so hopefully she will get a little more able to handle her emotions (not that I want to stifle feeling, just not outbursts and hitting herself on the head when we tell her not to do something).

[reillys_mom]

This thread interested me as I feel like I could have written so much of it about DS1. Add on top of that he doesn't sleep well and often comes into our bed in the night. So, I was wondering if anyone had any updates or perspective now that it is 6 months later.