We're Leaving Montessori

[phylisrn]

This is quite long so please bear with me...
Well it didn't work out like I expected. I really enjoyed Montessori and considering that this is the 'premier' school in Maryland, at a whopping cost of 15,000 per year, I was quite disappointed. My daughter is 5 years old and didn't go to Montessori at the age of 3 and 4. Now I know why they recommend to start at age 3 or 4.

Basically her academics are fine, however, at school she is reading Al and Pal books but at home she is reading level 2 Cat in the Hat books. I think my daughter overheard me talking to my husband talking about the different levels of reading and that we thought she was ready to move on beyond Al and Pal books. Well my daughter mentioned to her teacher that she should send more challenging books home. The teacher responded according to my daughter " I am the teacher and it is my job to decide when it is time for you to move on".

Well now the problem is not academic but her "baby behaviors". The teacher says that she only plays with the 3 year olds and she lacks concentration. Well first of all the only five year olds are boys. There are 3 of them. You see my daughter is the type of child that once a person insults her, she is done forever with them. I have tried to convince her other wise but she is not changing. One boy showed her his penis so she is done with him, one boy is a bully so she is done with him and the third boy teases her so she is done with him. There are only a couple of 4 year olds and the rest are three year old girls that she loves. The counselor had called me for a conference about placement. I never went because her teacher told me that the age group 6-8 would eat her alive. ANd she is certainly not gonna be 7 years old and in the class with the 3-5 year old. SO we decided to just give up and find another school.

My daughter has some personality issues .First of all she is a very very sensitive child and her feelings are hurt easily and she cries easily. She is a perfectionist when she does things, even things that are above her level. And if she can't get something she is easily frustrated. She is an only child and someone she seems so "old' for her age( well we are older parents). SHe is always giving people compliments even when they don't look so good. This also bugged her teacher. I explained to my daughter that everyone don't like compliments. She said" I was only trying to be nice". She has this insatiable need to please and I am not sure where it is coming from.

Well that school had me wondering if something was wrong with my child and I had her individually tested at Huntington. These are her scores:

Logical reasoning 100%
Mathematical Ability 89%
Visual Spatial skills 86% and her IQ was 110.

My daughter tells me she doesn't like Montessori. Maybe this is why she doesn't concentrate cause she is bored. She is easily bored. Once I was advising her on how to be a leader. The next day she said "Mom, you and the teacher says I should be a good example, well I was helping my 3 year old friend on the sliding board and I got in trouble. So how am I suppose to set an example?" I said, 'you know that is confusing and you are absolutely right.' (although I can understand why the teacher doesn't want another child helping someone on the sliding board for safety reasons).

SO maybe all this time I just wanted her to succeed in Montessori and just maybe Montessori is not a fit for her. It was a hard $15,000 lesson to learn though. I also made the mistake of assuming price=quality. No parent wants to hear that their child is not able to go back to a school cause administration thinks they are not a fit. But now I am so over it and moving on.
Thanks for listening,

[eepster]

It sounds more like issues with the teachers personality, than with Montessori methodology.

It really is pretty unrealistic to expect a girl to come in and make friends with three boys who have probably been in school together for 3 years. I'm really surprised about the books, I can't imagine anyone at DS's school not letting him have whatever book he wanted (though he hasn't shown interest in reading at school.)

[MittensKittens]

I rarely come here but wanted to respond. I plan on homeschooling my kids, and was montessori schooled myself. It didn't work out for me, for many of the same reasons you mention for your DD. The combination of the freedom to doodle around, and the materials offered being not challenging enough was not good for me. They had my mom thinking I was behind developmentally and a slow learner. Until she finally got me tested and that proved them more than wrong. It caused me to be frustrated throughout my time in montessori. I was also a loner and the team player attitude of montessori was not good for me. I am angry to think that, had my mom gone with their recommendations and classified me as "dumb", I would have got not education at all. Once I moved over to regular education things got so much better. I did dislike the authoritarian approach of the teachers, and the way in which you were supposed to treat them with respect all the time . BUT... they gave me a chance to prove myself, rebel against their system and challenge the teaching materials rather than just sitting in a corner drawing. Because that was not possible any more. In a year, I went from being left alone completely, and my mom simply being told I was slow, to my teachers telling me that the essays I brought in were too good for them to have been written by someone my age. It was far from perfect, but it DID get me an education. I am still much the same today. I am a journalist, and one to wit until the very deadline to finish my work . I can, basically, only work under pressure. Montessori, for me, did not provide that pressure. Can I ask where you plan on going from montessori? Good luck with everything and I hope you find the form of education that is right for you and your child.

[phylisrn]

Thanks Mittens for the response. We are going to a local Catholic school that is known for its academic success. Huntington reassured me that there was nothing wrong with my child. She has a "playful" personality and maybe it doesn't fit with Montessori's seriousness. In fact the counselor I talked to was surprised she wasn't excelling in Montessori cause she scored 100% in logic reasoning which is what encompasses a lot of Montessori.

If I didn't have to work, I would home school too because this has left a bitter taste in my mouth.

I am just so still confused with the differences in what my daughter does at home and what the teacher is doing. I don't know if my daughter 'dumbs' down at school or what.

I know every parent thinks that they have a little "Einstein" but at the age of 3 my daughter taught herself Spanish from watching Dora, she knows French from Montessori , and she taught herself a few words in Chinese. So in essence she knows vocabulary words from 4 different languages. I don't understand.

I have done a lot of research on Montessori and from my understanding, Maria taught this program to orphaned mentally handicapped kids and they are unable to find a place in the school for an average child?

One problem I do have with Montessori education in this country is that it appears to cater to the "elitist". Let me explain... when they send out the other kids addresses they always list the titles of all the parents like Doctor, etc. Don't get me wrong I don't have any class envy but I am just a hard working parent trying to get the best education I can for my child. I think some of these Montessori schools need to get back to the basic philosophy of Maria.

Thanks

[thyme]

I'm so sorry to hear your school isn't working well for your daughter.

It doesn't sound like a traditional Montessori school. The M age groups are usually 3-6 for Primary and then 6-9 (Lower Elementary) or even 6-12 (Elementary). Also, the class sizes should be deliberately large so that there are plenty of same-age students to mix with. I think AMI says the ideal size is 35 (not sure of the exact number, but it's high) for a good balance of boys and girls and ages.

Just seeing those basic differences, and the examples you gave about the books and the sliding board, make me think that your school is not following the practices of Dr. Montessori.

It certainly sounds like your school has been a disappointment, but I hope it will not put you off of the Montessori method altogether.

[Rose-Roget]

I would agree with pp's who said that it sounds more like a problem with the specific school, rather than Montessori in general. I can see how the experience would turn you off, and I'm sorry that it didn't work out for you.

FWIW, my ds had a lot of problems at the beginning of the year because the teacher he was with didn't realize his capabilities. Because he is a little on the immature side, she assumed his other abilities to be lower. When she told me at conferences that he couldn't do certain things because he wasn't able to focus his attention, I was quite surprised because at home he could focus his attention for lengthy periods of time and do similar types of activities. He was also acting out. When they finally started challenging him, he took off - and his new teacher said that he becomes intently focused on his works, and he hasn't had many behavior problems since.

The part about them not letting your dd teach the younger kids is sad. I understand the safety concern in the specific instance you mentioned, but a good teacher could certainly have "helped" your dd teach the younger girl. That leadership piece is a big part of M.

In regards to the elitist thing: a lot of Montessoris are expensive, it's true. But it also sounds like this might be "the" school for Montessori in your area, and unfortunately, it's easy for affluent people to get sucked into the "price=quality" mistake, too. I know at my son's current Montessori, there are representatives of people who have more money than us and less money than us, so it's not an across the board elitist philosophy.

It sounds like you've found a new decision which is comfortable for you. I hope when you think back on the experience, though, you could think that it was the school, and not Montessori itself, that was a bad fit. It sounds like, in a different environment, she could have done nicely. Best of luck to you and your dd!

[phylisrn]

Thyme, they are "the premier Montessori" school in the state. They are AMS certified and they do have the 3-6, and 6-9 but my daughter will be 6 on April 2, 2009. She needs to be in the 6-9 group in the fall right? They go to the 8th grade.

My daughters class started out with 12 kids and now it has 17 kids. Are you saying these classes are too small? Maybe that is why there is not a lot of diversity in the group.

I chose the school cause I beleive in the Montessori way. I have read all of the Montessori books. The problem is the other schools in the area are called associate status. I am not sure what that means. I really would like to continue with Montessori but I don't know if it is a fit for her. The ironic part of all of this is that intellectually, I have seen her grow in leaps and bounds. Seems like a piece is missing doesn't it?

I had thought of asking the dean to let my daughter do a couple of share days with one of the 6-9 teachers to get another opinion and to see how my daughter interacts with the older kids.

[Rose-Roget]

Originally Posted by phylisrn

I had thought of asking the dean to let my daughter do a couple of share days with one of the 6-9 teachers to get another opinion and to see how my daughter interacts with the older kids.

I think that sounds like a great idea! I would love to hear how things go, if you give it a shot.

Also, I don't know what the "associate status" means - maybe someone more familiar with M. does. Personally, I would check them out anyway. If the method is there and there is a better teacher personality fit, it would certainly be worth it.

[eepster]

Originally Posted by phylisrn

The problem is the other schools in the area are called associate status.

Sometimes it just means they can't afford to pay the full membership fees each year.

[writteninkursive]

Hey, I just wanted to thank you for including your perspective on Mothering. I am considering putting my 3-year-old daughter into Montessori school in the fall (ours is much cheaper, at $2,900 a year, and we qualify for financial aid through Headstart to pay for it). I am really afraid to send her to a normal public school because I did so badly in public school - not because the school was bad, just because the system didn't work for my right-brained self. I hear a lot about homeschooling and "unschooling", but I am pursuing a degree currently and have every intention of working full-time once the kids are all in school. I don't love being a stay-at-home mom, as my personality isn't suited for it. I really have no desire to homeschool and I do want the kids to have the social interaction of a school system, just without the crap that public schools teach. I want my kids to think and not be censored for it.

My oldest is the kind of child who I think will do well in any school setting. She's very organized (a little, bossy Capricorn girl), and needs her order and system. I can see her excelling in school. But her little sister is just a total mess of non-organization and sensitivity. I don't see her doing as well in school, and I want them to have the opportunity to go their own pace. From what I'm hearing from you, they may not have that opportunity at Montessori after all. I'll definitely check it out really thoroughly before enrolling her. Thanks again!

[MattBronsil]

Originally Posted by eepster

Sometimes it just means they can't afford to pay the full membership fees each year.

AMS has 5 different levels:

Full Member: This is a school where each classroom must have fully certified Montessori teachers in all their classrooms with the age they are teaching.


Accredited: A full member school that has been a full member for at least a year. They also have had a team visit the school.

Associate: The school must have an AMS-, AMI-, NCME-, or other MACTE-credentialed lead teacher in some, but not all, classrooms.

Initiate: A school that is just starting. They may apply for an initiate level, but they must be working towards Associate or Full Member school later.

Satellite: An aditional site for a school that is in a different location. So if you have a school on the East Side of Cincinnati and on the West Side, one can get a Satellite membership. It's the same equivelancy as the other school, but costs less.

International: The one I forgot to count when I originally said there were 5 different things. So I lied...there are 6.

The problem with Full Membership is often the cost. Most AMS schools I have seen are Associate schools. One I worked for was a one room classroom with a credentialed (AMS) lead teacher. There was really no benefit to them becoming a full member. It cost a lot more, was a hassle, and really offered no financial benefit to us that was worth it. From experience, that is the case in most AMS schools I have seen.

[GuildJenn]

I'm so glad you are advocating for your daughter. I'm a fan of our Montessori, but not a Montessori fanatic. If something isn't working and the school won't address your concerns, then that's serious.

I did want to share that for me I think the most important element of almost any school in any philosophy is the engagement, caring and passion of its teachers. We are fortunate to have found that in a very small very non-premier school.

I don't really want to come across as defending or not defending Montessori because it does vary so widely, but for my son who has a particular bent for the math works, it was the school who approached me to move him from the toddler programme to the casa programme for the works time to support him better. So I don't think holding kids back is a Montessori thing.

[KBecks]

I think the problem may be that particular school and teacher. That said, we are leaving our Montessori school this year too. Mostly because of a 13% tuition increase, we cannot afford it, but also, my son does not like school, I think they may be pushing him a little much with writing, they do fire drills w/o coats in midwinter, and I just learned that he likely picked up the phrase "freeze your t!ts off" on one of the fire drills from a junior high age group. (He told me that they were by the big kids during one winter fire drill.)

I was feeling bad about leaving but not any more. We will do some M activities at home , so I am not abandoning all Montessori method, just the school.

[snowmom5]

Originally Posted by writteninkursive

I am really afraid to send her to a normal public school because I did so badly in public school - not because the school was bad, just because the system didn't work for my right-brained self.

Just popping in to say that our Montessori has been a wonderful experience for my rather right-brained visual-spatial learner (he's currently in K). Just how successful it is in that regard may depend on the individual teacher. The works are great, but the order of them may matter too - his current teacher understands the whole right-brain learning issue and allows him to do more complex works and then go back to the simpler ones that lead up to them later (whole-part learning as opposed to step-by-step). My dd, who is also quite a VSL, has a teacher who is more linear with regard to the order of doing the lessons. Either way, they are both *far* better off than they'd be in the regular public school. DD went to the public school (a very good one, supposedly) for K and it did not work out so well; she's now in second grade at the montessori and doing beautifully. She's now achieving above grade level rather than below. But I wanted to emphasize that for the right-brained learner, still it depends a bit on the individual teacher and how much they're willing to adapt the order of works to the student, as much as the method is well suited to right-brained learners.

[thyme]

Originally Posted by phylisrn

Thyme, they are "the premier Montessori" school in the state. They are AMS certified and they do have the 3-6, and 6-9 but my daughter will be 6 on April 2, 2009. She needs to be in the 6-9 group in the fall right? They go to the 8th grade.

Sorry for misunderstanding. In your original post, you said there was a 3-5 group and a 6-8 group, which is not in alignment with the planes of development described by Dr. Montessori. This is why I mentioned it.

Typically a student "moves up" when they are ready. It doesn't have to happen at an exact birthday or at the start of a new school year.

Originally Posted by phylisrn

My daughters class started out with 12 kids and now it has 17 kids. Are you saying these classes are too small? Maybe that is why there is not a lot of diversity in the group.

Yes, the idea of the larger class size is definitely so that there is a good balance of boys and girls in each age group. Also I think it helps the children to work independently instead of focusing on the teacher.

I don't really want to come across as defending or not defending Montessori because it does vary so widely

Same here. I just don't think the Montessori method should take the blame when the school is perhaps choosing alternate methods of instruction and classroom management.

[thyme]

Originally Posted by KBecks

I think the problem may be that particular school and teacher. That said, we are leaving our Montessori school this year too. ...I think they may be pushing him a little much with writing....

We are leaving after this year too, funnily enough because they are not pushing my son ENOUGH with writing! (He is several years older, which makes a big difference.)

[Flor]

I'm concerned about the comment of the 6-9 year olds "eating her alive"! What does that mean? My 5.5 year old was just moved up to the 6-9 group and of course they are all sweet and gentle and helping him feel comfortable and adjust in anyway they can.

Ds is not allowed to sit in the corner and doodle. Most kids figure out what to do, but ds is one that would sit and doodle. We have met as a parent/teacher group and have decided on a plan for him. He is really perking up now that he is feeling challenged. He needs to be given less choice at this point (which is hard for hte M. teacher, but it seems to be kick-starting him). Our school adjust to the individual needs of the child. I'm sorry it isn't working.

[jdedmom]

This is our last year for Montessori. My youngest DS (4.5) has been going for 3 years. My second son went for 3 years including Kindergarden. Well we cannot afford another year so my youngest will be attending kindergarden in public school.

I feel really guilty because his school really pushes for Montessori kindergarden and his teacher are really upset about losing him but it is just too much.

Around here there is not a lot of private school choices so it our Montessori school seems very elitist. It has always bothered me. That's one thing I won't miss.

OP, we haven't had the issues you've had but I wanted commiserate.

[celynen]

I'm sorry that has been your experience. I agree with the pp that your idea to contact the dean is a good one. Your daughter's teacher sounds like a bit of an odd bird -- what's the point of having older children in the class if they aren't expected and encouraged to assist the younger ones? Perhaps the classroom and the teacher have just been a bad fit for her, with clashing personalities. My experience has been altogether different, with both my son's teacher and the dean bending over backward to create the best environment they can for his needs.

[Cheshire]

Our son's first Montessori school was a disaster. He was really miserable. I went against my gut instinct in choosing the school over another because it was closer to home. Big mistake.

We moved him to another Montessori school and it is great. He started school when he was 3 after being watched by my mom since he was 3 months old while DH and I worked full time. It was a tough transition for him and they were so compassionate and really helped him through it.

He's finishing his second year and though he isn't as motivated as I'd like him to be with learning, he is going at his own pace. What I love about the school is that even though they work on academics at this age they really stress the basics of getting along with others, caring for your environment, learning to take care of your things, etc. The kids at this school are very diverse and though they act their age they do have a certain maturity when it comes to caring for others, listening to instructions, etc. It is a very gentle school. Most of the teachers have been there for over 10 years and they have a very low turnover.

DS will start at a public Montessori school next year for kindergarten. We've heard great things about it and I'm praying that it will be a good fit for him. I hate to move him from his current school but financially the jump to kindergarten would be a lot for us.

I think so many of the problems you've mentioned are based on teachers' personalities/school personality and not on M philosophy. I hope the move is a good one for your daughter - no reason for her to be miserable.

Best wishes!