Please help me look at tetanus...

[MissRubyandKen]

My dd is 13 months old, just starting to walk (yay!). So far she hasn't had any vaccinations. I've read up on tetanus, but haven't really considered it as even an option until now. I knew I didn't want the pertussis vaccine and tetanus risk for my baby has been next to nil. Now that it is getting warmer out and she will out toddling around in the world I feel it is time for me to really look at this vaccine again.

It really bothers me I can't even consider the tetanus portion alone, but have to take the risk of the pertussis and diphtheria if I did want her to have the tetanus. The tetanus without the p is only licensed for over 7, right? Would some doctors consider giving it anyway? Is there a reason not to beyond them wanting to make sure young ones get the p portion? I think I remember reading the tetanus and diphtheria only should be given to under sevens if the p portion was contraindicated. I'll have to see if I can find it again. Wait. Maybe there was something on the CDC tetanus pages about a t and d for pediatric use. I'll have to go look. Sorry, I know I'm all over the place here. It's just that this decision sucks. I would never want my baby to suffer, but can't get past injecting toxins and the risk of reaction.

I'm worrying mostly over splinters, thorns, and cat scratches (we have several cats). In that order. And of course heaven forbid any other type of accidental injury I don't want to even think about. Where I live they spread mulch constantly and the stuff is everywhere. I don't know if its from the neighborhood kids spreading it or what, but its pretty much all over the grounds on all the grass we will be playing in. I have no idea what it is treated with, but it sure smells like manure whenever they spread fresh. Guess I'll try to find out in my spare time . I know its just a matter of time before she picks up a splinter or two. My older kids have had several in the past from mulch. Both of them are vaccinated, though ds hasn't been since 18 months. I honestly never thought to do anything special for any of the wounds, just making sure debris where out and running water on them. So what would be the safest way to care for a splinter wound if it is tiny or bigger? Would peroxide help with a tiny splinter, or does it have to hit blood to bubble and oxygenate the wound, or would a tiny one not be deep enough to be risk?

[MissRubyandKen]

Also its my understanding that the tetanus and diphtheria portions of the vaccine aren't like any others. They are actually inactivated toxins (toxoids), correct? Not virus or bacteria? I'm really uncomfortable with the idea of injecting small doses of toxoid like this. My mind wants to compare it to snake venom, though I know it is different. Antivenom and TIG are similar in that they take another's antibodies (human or animal) and inject it or iv it into a patient already wounded so the antibodies will bind to free circulating toxin or venom and neutralize it. What I'm rattling on about it is seems similar to injecting small amounts of venom if they found a way to inactivate it. They'd probably find a way and make a vaccine if there were a bigger market and there weren't so many different types of venom. So this toxoid is supposed to be completely inactivated and does no damage to the body, only elicits an immune response? This vaccine is harder to wrap my head around than the others.

Oh yeah and the CDC pages do mention a pediatric DT. When I went to the package inserts and looked there was a DT listed manufactured by Aventis Pasteur, but when I clicked on the link the page was no longer available. So I guess I need to call them if nobody has heard of it or used it to ask if they do indeed still make it. Not that that means I will neccessarily have access to it anyway. But I'll work on that if I do decide for it. Just need to know my options so I can think this through right.

[FernG]

I found that before the tetanus vaccine was used, there were about 250 cases of tetanus and 40 deaths in the US - remember that a lot of the cases are in the elderly or diabetics, so they are dealing with weakened immune systems. In comparison, there were about 800 people struck by lightening and 600 deaths.

So before the vaccine, one was more likely to be struck by lightening than to catch tetanus. This was in the '40s, so there were more rural and factory jobs, where I'm assuming people would be exposed to more risky injuries.

[Gitti]

Originally Posted by FernG

I found that before the tetanus vaccine was used, there were about 250 cases of tetanus and 40 deaths in the US - remember that a lot of the cases are in the elderly or diabetics, so they are dealing with weakened immune systems. In comparison, there were about 800 people struck by lightening and 600 deaths.

So before the vaccine, one was more likely to be struck by lightening than to catch tetanus. This was in the '40s, so there were more rural and factory jobs, where I'm assuming people would be exposed to more risky injuries.

That is a very good comparison and one that lead me to realize how rare tetanus is and even more so in children.

The tetanus spores are everywhere just like dust. We carry the spores in our gut. The spores are totally harmless. They must be trapped in an oxygen free environment in order to evolve into a bacteria and then the side product of this bacteria is what we react to.

What creates such an environment? A deep puncture wound that does not bleed and grows shut immediately so no oxygen can enter the wound. Or a very severe burn or a crush wound both can cause decayed body tissue that does not carry any blood and thus is void of oxygen. If the wound his the air or has any blood present, oxygen is also present.

All that and the fact that tetanus was extremely rare before the era of vaccines and basically unheard of in children (except in some African tribes where they follow mud/straw covering newborn umbilical cord rituals).

Our 3 grandchildren (ages 11, 5, 3) will not get the tetanus vaccine nor any other vaccine.

[Gitti]

Some previous discussions -

http://mothering.com/discussions/sho...d.php?t=231708

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=376692

[MissRubyandKen]

How do you care for various splinter wounds? Do you use peroxide or just running water?

[lauradbg]

Originally Posted by FernG

I found that before the tetanus vaccine was used, there were about 250 cases of tetanus and 40 deaths in the US - remember that a lot of the cases are in the elderly or diabetics, so they are dealing with weakened immune systems. In comparison, there were about 800 people struck by lightening and 600 deaths.

So before the vaccine, one was more likely to be struck by lightening than to catch tetanus. This was in the '40s, so there were more rural and factory jobs, where I'm assuming people would be exposed to more risky injuries.

Fern, do you have a link or source for this? Thanks.

[Gitti]

Originally Posted by MissRubyandKen

How do you care for various splinter wounds? Do you use peroxide or just running water?

WE used to have a lot of splinters since we had a dock going out ot a pond and all the kids from the area used to come to swim. I tried to warn them but it made no difference. So we just kept tweezers and hydrogen peroxide handy.

Some of the splinters were very large and deep. All we ever did was pull them out and put peroxide on the wound. There was seldom any bleeding. But they generally went back into the water so I figured there certainly is plenty of oxygen in the water and the air. Whatever splinter parts that we could not get out, seemed to come out in the following days on its own.

We never saw any problems with any of the teens. That was over a period of 15 years. They are all still alive. (Some even come by to say "hi" from time to time.)

[Gitti]

I also wanted to post information about the tetanus vaccine -

http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin/tetanus.htm

It is by far not a simple benign injection.

[mamakah]

I have the same concerns and can not really find enough info on tetanus to ease my fears. I was working in the garden yesterday, and my 10 month old was crawling around in the grass. He started crying and I went to him right away. I found a thorn (goat head) on his shirt, but could not find a puncture wound anywhere on him. This made me nervous.
We should all share out tetanus links and info.

[Gitti]

http://*********/v/mend.html

http://www.vaclib.org/email/tetanustoomany.htm

http://www.*********/a/tenpenny1.html


.

[luminesce]

Rare, or not, I still get a little worried about tetanus from time to time. I've recently picked two small splinters out of my 2 yo's feet.

http://www.cdc.gov/MMWR/preview/mmwrhtml/ss5203a1.htm

Tetanus among children is uncommon in the United States. However, 13 nonneonatal cases occurred among patients aged <15 years during 1992--2000. Of these, 85% (11/13) were among children whose parents objected to vaccination"

So, if you're looking for risk, you'll need to take a guess at how many children were not vaccinated at all for tetanus from 1992 - 2000.

[FernG]

CDC estimates... http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/sur...16-tetanus.pdf They say that these are projected estimates, so take them with a grain of salt. I can't find the source for the hard numbers that I read years ago - that's the problem with internet sources: things disapear from time to time.

Here's a text book with the same CDC graph and some additional info...

[Lisa1970]

Thing is, there was a shortage on the tetanus shot a few years ago and no one could get it for a while. The doctors said no big deal, just clean any cuts or injuries, which of course, you would do anyway. There was not a resurgance in Tetanus. Eventually, the makers got it back in stock and suddenly, we all supposedly needed it again.

Now, when the medical world is advising us that we "need" or don't "need" a shot based on how much they have in stock, it shows clearly that we do not need the shot. I don't do tetanus anymore. Also, I, myself, have not had one since I was 5 yrs old. I am 38 now.