Chat Thread: March 28 - April 3

[tanyalynn]

ETA#2: I missed Jacqueline's update, yay! that all is well and good with her, and wow, I am a poor substitute but now we're stuck with this! Though JR, if you want to start a new one, feel free, I will not be at all offended!

With Jacqueline MIA (: to you, JR!) I'm going to try to step in as a poor substitute. I'm going to put this up (really, this time--just lost the first draft ) and then start linking the other active threads. I KNOW I will miss a few important ones, just let me know and I'll edit this post.

New folks: this is a place for us to chat about our ups and downs through this strange journey we're on. Feel free to say hi, post cool links or whatever, or just lurk if that's your preference.

Previous chat thread, last page:
http://mothering.com/discussions/sho...059119&page=24

Momofmine's Copper thread--copper and zinc are sort of like feuding families, they rely on each other but each tries to one-up the other...
http://mothering.com/discussions/sho....php?t=1059374

whoMe's detox pathways guinea pig--she discusses her journey trying to modify her diet and add in supps that will open up her and her daughter's detoxification pathways and decrease their food intolerances...
http://mothering.com/discussions/sho....php?t=1041859

Various folks have asked for specific advice/ideas on their situations, I'm SURE I'll miss people, just let me know...
Kathy:
http://mothering.com/discussions/sho....php?t=1060306

Neveryoumindthere:
http://mothering.com/discussions/sho....php?t=1061216

Me (Tanya):
http://mothering.com/discussions/sho....php?t=1060720

And I'm going to post this now before I lose it AGAIN.

more stuff:
Laurie's looking for ideas on her long-standing issues with food sensitivies and reflux and congestion and ear infections and how it's all interrelated in her daughter...
http://mothering.com/discussions/sho....php?t=1062668

This is ChangingSeason's amazing story (much, much condensed) as she's worked out a path to healing for herself and her daughter.... did I mention amazing?
http://mothering.com/discussions/sho....php?t=1061670

Kortner's Supplements thread, full of discussion on any number of supps to help with various issues we're having...
http://mothering.com/discussions/sho....php?t=1048450

[neveryoumindthere]

Thanks Tanya!

So, I ate paprika last night, one of ds' former triggers. Yes I said former. :

It's been a few times now that I've had it and there's been no reaction. And last night he slept better than he has in MONTHS!! Not great, but he was in bed from 8:30pm until 6:30 am, nursed only once, woke to fuss a few times, but we got a couple 3 1/2 hour stretches. Woohoo! I'm goin to count it as a pass for now

[kjbrown92]

I guess I'd better go find out what's up with Jacqueline. Yesterday I was MIA almost all day (6 hours working at the nail polish booth at DD2's fundraising Snoopy Fair for her co-op nursery school -- you should have seen me examining every kid's lunulas and I found quite a few kids with white spots on their nails but I couldn't remember what it meant. Then we had to go to DH's work picnic for another 6 hours. Tiring day). So now I have to catch up.

I found something interesting in my search for folates....
I have two Adrenal Support things. The first one didn't seem to help at all. It's Vital Nutrients Adrenal Support and it contains: Whole Adrenal Bovine, Cortex Adrenal Bovine, Eleuthero root extract, ashwagandha root extract, cordyceps sinensis, and pantothenic acid. The one I started taking, which does seem to be helping is Neuro Science's AdreCor, and it contains Vitamin C (as ascorbic acid), niacin, Vitamin B6, FOLATE (30% DV), Vitamin B12, pantothenic acid,, magnesium (only 3% DV), Zinc (20%DV). So I'm thinking maybe I should take both of them one for adrenals and one for vitamins. AndI wonder if the Vitamin Bs and the folate is why the second one made me feel better.

Also, I feel like I'm boiling, and my temperature is 98.1 (usually 96.8-97.3) so for me is this a fever? Or just more weirdness on my part. I know low temperature is part of adrenal fatigue, but I've had it my whole life (as far back as I remember, in 4th grade for example). And yes, I suppose I could have had AF that far back.

[kjbrown92]

I'm attempting to quote from the old thread:
QUOTE=Mammo2Sammo;13454619]So glad you had a good day JR.

Tanya -sending support and patience your way. I think FEs could really help you right now. Hugs.[/quote]

I think they're definitely helping us. I got DD2's new bottle so she's back on them. Hopefully her moods will improve. I noticed that this month, DD1 didn't have her usual moodiness/crying jags leading up to my period. Hooray for FEs. I haven't noticed anything with DS, but it's hard for me to get him to take them.

We are moving in a couple of days. Only feeling a little excitment mostly sadness. Also we officially turned down the affordable housing townhouse we were trying to get. We saw it a couple of weeks ago and didn't love it. The company called yesterday to tell us we could have it if we wanted. I had to say no. It is the right decision but I'm afraid it was our last chance for ownership. Starting homes here are usually300,000.
Off to move into a really lovely apartment, in a really lovely neighborhood with tons of other homesvhoolers, closer to our hs center, much closer to dh's work, with a dishwasher and washer and dryer (things I've never had in my life). Oh yeah next to the city , near walden pond. So why am I sad? I will miss my sunrises over the marsh, chatting with moms outside of my door watching a gaggle of boys running and tumbling about in our shared yard. I thinkin going through a mourning process .

It's always stressful moving, no matter what. Focus on all the good things (washer/dryer and closer to work for DH sounds great).

Originally Posted by chlobo

Where are you moving to? I live in Carlisle, next to Concord. I believe you'll be nearby. Perhaps we can meet? Wouldn't that be grand?

Your old living arrangement sounds lovely.

I think you should both take a road trip and come visit me in Lake George this summer (I'll even cook for you). Just remember it's RUSTIC.

[kjbrown92]

Serial posting....
Yesterday at the Snoopy Fair that I was working at, my father and his girlfriend brought DS and DD2 to it (DD1 was with me, helping paint little kids' fingernails). At one point my father lost DD2, and then they went to get food. I had already checked all the ingredients so I told them they could get a hamburger (no bun) for DS and cotton candy for DD2 (any color). DD2 was happy as a clam. Then my father said that they were out of hamburgers, but then said they found one. Huh? So I went down to the concession stand. The guy next to my father had given up his CHEESEburger and they went back outside to SCRAPE OFF the cheese. She brought it out with sticky cheese residue on the top, sitting on a bun. My dad said, "That's okay, right? There's not much left..." I said, "Thank you so much for giving up your burger, but he cannot have any dairy at all, and it's now sitting on the bun." And my Dad was looking at me like, huh? I swear I want to give it to the kid and then send him to my father's for the night so he could witness firsthand the extent of his SCREAMING AT THE TOP OF HIS LUNGS ALL NIGHT LONG WHILE CLUTCHING AT HIS STOMACH AND HIS LEGS FROM THE PAIN. I won't of course, and they'll continue to be in denial, but the urge was there.

[chlobo]

Originally Posted by kjbrown92

I guess I'd better go find out what's up with Jacqueline. Yesterday I was MIA almost all day (6 hours working at the nail polish booth at DD2's fundraising Snoopy Fair for her co-op nursery school -- you should have seen me examining every kid's lunulas and I found quite a few kids with white spots on their nails but I couldn't remember what it meant. Then we had to go to DH's work picnic for another 6 hours. Tiring day). So now I have to catch up.

I found something interesting in my search for folates....
I have two Adrenal Support things. The first one didn't seem to help at all. It's Vital Nutrients Adrenal Support and it contains: Whole Adrenal Bovine, Cortex Adrenal Bovine, Eleuthero root extract, ashwagandha root extract, cordyceps sinensis, and pantothenic acid. The one I started taking, which does seem to be helping is Neuro Science's AdreCor, and it contains Vitamin C (as ascorbic acid), niacin, Vitamin B6, FOLATE (30% DV), Vitamin B12, pantothenic acid,, magnesium (only 3% DV), Zinc (20%DV). So I'm thinking maybe I should take both of them one for adrenals and one for vitamins. AndI wonder if the Vitamin Bs and the folate is why the second one made me feel better.

Also, I feel like I'm boiling, and my temperature is 98.1 (usually 96.8-97.3) so for me is this a fever? Or just more weirdness on my part. I know low temperature is part of adrenal fatigue, but I've had it my whole life (as far back as I remember, in 4th grade for example). And yes, I suppose I could have had AF that far back.

Does the Nuero Science one *only* contain vitamins & minerals? No glandulars? I take the Vital Nutrients and I'll tell you I dn't think I can tell a difference. I had a "healer" person tell me I should take a Standard Process product but I'm a little scared to switch.

[MyLittleWonders]

Subbing this week! I totally missed the beginning of last weeks, and by the time I found it, it was way too overwhelming. Dh was sick all last week (ended up taking off 3 out of 6 teaching days between the previous Friday and last Friday). Now I'm sick even though he's not completely over it. I've realized two things: I really am the only one who can keep the house clean while making sure everyone is fed and laundry is done, and that staying in bed for the weekend does seem to help the swelling (and thus stiffness) go down in my knee (torn meniscus). So, my chiropractor will be happy when I return tomorrow, unless I feel better by the morning and am up too much tomorrow before my appointment. At least for now, though, my knee looks the closest to "normal" that it's looked in the last month.

[MyLittleWonders]

Originally Posted by kjbrown92

Serial posting....
Yesterday at the Snoopy Fair that I was working at, my father and his girlfriend brought DS and DD2 to it (DD1 was with me, helping paint little kids' fingernails). At one point my father lost DD2, and then they went to get food. I had already checked all the ingredients so I told them they could get a hamburger (no bun) for DS and cotton candy for DD2 (any color). DD2 was happy as a clam. Then my father said that they were out of hamburgers, but then said they found one. Huh? So I went down to the concession stand. The guy next to my father had given up his CHEESEburger and they went back outside to SCRAPE OFF the cheese. She brought it out with sticky cheese residue on the top, sitting on a bun. My dad said, "That's okay, right? There's not much left..." I said, "Thank you so much for giving up your burger, but he cannot have any dairy at all, and it's now sitting on the bun." And my Dad was looking at me like, huh? I swear I want to give it to the kid and then send him to my father's for the night so he could witness firsthand the extent of his SCREAMING AT THE TOP OF HIS LUNGS ALL NIGHT LONG WHILE CLUTCHING AT HIS STOMACH AND HIS LEGS FROM THE PAIN. I won't of course, and they'll continue to be in denial, but the urge was there.

Ugh ... that is so frustrating! It wasn't until my mom really experience a reaction with my boys that she finally got it (we consciously trialed gluten a year ago and unknowingly trialed artificial flavoring about 3 weeks after that ... it was 7 weeks of unbearable behavior around here before it was all out of their systems). She had always been supportive, but also voiced her "are you sure you need to deny them all these foods" stuff to me. Once she was around them while they were reacting, it was a different story. That's not to say I would even purposely do that, but I am glad that I finally got the validation, if that makes sense. Now, if my dad was still alive, I know he'd still not get it ... he was already pretty sick by the time we went Feingold, and was really sick by the time we dropped gluten, so we weren't going out for breakfast together anymore. He was the type who believed that just a "little bit" won't kill them.

[MyLittleWonders]

Serial posting too. I'm still tweaking my supplements. I've dropped the AdreneVive I was taking; I'm not sure if it was doing anything for me. I am trying to be consistent with zinc, magnesium, 5HTP, and GABA. I realized somewhere on this board (or on the Adrenal Fatigue thread; I can't remember) that someone's comment about healing the depression/anxiety is a good start for heaing adrenal fatigue. Maybe it was whoMe? I can't remember now. But, I do know that by lowering my anxiety levels and healing the depression, I'm starting to feel better overall. So, I'm taking 250mg of 5HTP throughout the day plus 1500mg of GABA (2x a day). If I can remember my magnesium and CLO, then I'm really going good!

Plus I think working on my stomach acid is working too as it seems I'm starting to better utilize my food (evidenced by the fact that I've been able to eat a small piece of chocolate every day without breaking out in coldsores because I'm eating raw spinach and black beans almost daily - I must be able to better utilize the L-lysine in my food). So, I'm keeping with the zinc, biotin (I think I might double both of those as I started slowly with both), lemon water in the morning (I love my lemon water with raw honey each morning), raw milk kefir in my smoothies, and liberal snacking on Bubbies pickles.

[kjbrown92]

Originally Posted by chlobo

Does the Nuero Science one *only* contain vitamins & minerals? No glandulars? I take the Vital Nutrients and I'll tell you I dn't think I can tell a difference. I had a "healer" person tell me I should take a Standard Process product but I'm a little scared to switch.

I don't see any glandulars on there. Though under the first part, was another part that I didn't see. It has L-methionine, L-histidine, N-acetyltyrosine, Rhodiola rosea root extract, and green tea leaf extract.

That's why I'm wondering if I should be taking them both. One for the glandulars and one for the vitamins. When the ND first diagnosed me with AF, she said to do the Travacor and something else. I gave it a couple months and didn't see a difference with the "something else" so I stopped it (but the Travacor helped me sleep, so I kept it). When I looked at my lab report recently, it said to take the Travacor and the AdreCor and told me how many capsules to take (which was different than what the ND said). So now I'm doing it the way that they said to do it in the first place. But I'm wondering if I should take the Vital Nutrients one too.

[changingseasons]

Originally Posted by neveryoumindthere

So, I ate paprika last night, one of ds' former triggers. Yes I said former.

:

Originally Posted by kjbrown92

Also, I feel like I'm boiling, and my temperature is 98.1 (usually 96.8-97.3) so for me is this a fever? Or just more weirdness on my part. I know low temperature is part of adrenal fatigue, but I've had it my whole life (as far back as I remember, in 4th grade for example). And yes, I suppose I could have had AF that far back.

That's really interesting. I'm usually in that exact same range (96.8-97.3) and doctors never believe me when I say that. If I have a temp of 99, that's a pretty good fever for me (and they say- oh no, you're totally normal.) I had no idea that was an AF thing. Maybe I should drag myself over to that giant thread....

Originally Posted by kjbrown92

The guy next to my father had given up his CHEESEburger and they went back outside to SCRAPE OFF the cheese. She brought it out with sticky cheese residue on the top, sitting on a bun.

Originally Posted by JacquelineR

Sorry I went MIA today. DH was going to Salem (which I think I mentioned) but he surprised me with a babysitter and I went too. I had a great time just hanging around adults all day.
I will be working on the new chat thread tomorrow (which is a day late to me ). Thanks for the well wishes and thinking of me.
I didn't really read much, just skimmed through b/c DH wants attention. Will see you tomorrow!

Wow- my quotes got way out of order. Weird. Anyway, I'm so glad that you got a break! Sounds like a great day.

Originally Posted by Mammo2Sammo

We are moving in a couple of days. Only feeling a little excitment mostly sadness.

Moving is hard. Especially when you're not excited about the new place. I hope you grow to love it.

Originally Posted by menomena

Yeah, goat's dairy is so out. We got the pee rxn last night. It took 4 days of for it to build up. She peed three times last night, the last of which was a full on accident in her undies; but she took herself w/o a fit, so it's weird, but a clear signal to me. I did not know that goat's milk had so much casein! I had always heard that it was easier to digest b/c it was more like human milk.

Bummer about the goat's dairy. Good to know about the duck eggs. Maybe I will try those out before I try chicken eggs.

[tanyalynn]

I'm totally behind, will catch-up, really. But first I've got a question for everyone.

Lately I've really been pulled to start writing up a Getting Started document that talks about all the different things we've been working on. More of an outline, with some intro to what's going on and then links to the threads or outside documents that discuss it more in-depth. Each of us has a different combination of several things, and I think putting it together, so new folks can start saying "hey, that looks like an issue for us!" or "that's not a big deal, I don't think, in our case" and putting together their own plan.

Clearly, this relies heavily on old discussions, and I really don't feel like an expert on any of it. But I think I've got a decent overview. If I started another thread, would folks be willing to a) add any major topics that I'm missing, and b) share the threads or outside links that seem important to newbies understanding what the heck is going on?

topics so far:
-identifying problematic foods (top problems, food families, Kathy's threads on most problematic foods and good choices for TEDs)
-structural issues (things causing current issues like tongue ties and tight anal sphincters, and the reflux issues caused by misalignment that CST can help with, and then also midline issues as indicative of mom's nutritional status, and discussion of vitamin A and folate)
-healing the gut (we've got good threads on this, so I was just going to give a brief 1-paragraph overview so that people can know to go read more)
-detoxification (discussion of long-term toxicity issues and long-standing, severe nutrient deficiencies, and long-term but less severe or shorter-term nutrient deficiencies sometimes due to mom's atypical nutritional needs or restrictions on elimination diets)

I'm not sure if I'm missing any major topics or not, this just started really taking shape after my morning nap.

Good/bad/too early to try to start putting this together?

[lil_miss_understood]

That's totally something I was planning to try to get done, Tanya. I'm sure not going to take it away from you, though, if you have the time and energy to pick that ball up and run with it. I'll be psyched to give you any help that I can!
I'm caught up with my reading from yesterday, but I still have to catch up on my housework. Saturday and Sunday are big cleaning days for me here so I have all of yesterday's housework to catch up on (besides minor stuff like dishes). So I might not be around very much again today (which is half gone as it is... DS2 wasn't feeling well last night and slept until nearly noon today, which allowed me to as well since DS1 won't wake me up unless he HAS to because he knows when I get up on the weekend, he gets put to work. ).
There were many people saying that their mood is off kilter lately, and I completely sympathize with you all. Hoping we all get to a level place soon. :
There were other things I wanted to say but DS2 wants out of his high chair from brunch and ds1 needs to be nagged to death to get something done, there's laundry to put in... You know. Mothering.

[WuWei]

You all will not believe what I just read. Folinic Acid, basically a synthetic folate, is used to TREAT pancreatic cancer.




Pat

[Theloose]

Yay on the progress people are making!:

Originally Posted by changingseasons

That's really interesting. I'm usually in that exact same range (96.8-97.3) and doctors never believe me when I say that. If I have a temp of 99, that's a pretty good fever for me (and they say- oh no, you're totally normal.) I had no idea that was an AF thing. Maybe I should drag myself over to that giant thread....

Low temp is normally thyroid; variable temp is more adrenals.

Originally Posted by TanyaLopez

Lately I've really been pulled to start writing up a Getting Started document that talks about all the different things we've been working on.
...
Good/bad/too early to try to start putting this together?

I'm right there with ya. I was thinking a whole website though, kinda along the lines of kellymom... Maybe we should start a brainstorming thread to figure out the best organization? And to make sure nothing gets forgotten?

Originally Posted by WuWei

You all will not believe what I just read. Folinic Acid, basically a synthetic folate, is used to TREAT pancreatic cancer.

Wait, I thought folate and folinic acid were the food forms, and that folic acid was the synthetic one. I'm pretty sure folinic acid is somewhere on the folate cycle, something to do with DNA and/or purines? And it would be hard to make enough with MTHFR 1298 mutations.

[Theloose]

Originally Posted by MyLittleWonders

Serial posting too. I'm still tweaking my supplements. I've dropped the AdreneVive I was taking; I'm not sure if it was doing anything for me. I am trying to be consistent with zinc, magnesium, 5HTP, and GABA. I realized somewhere on this board (or on the Adrenal Fatigue thread; I can't remember) that someone's comment about healing the depression/anxiety is a good start for heaing adrenal fatigue. Maybe it was whoMe? I can't remember now. But, I do know that by lowering my anxiety levels and healing the depression, I'm starting to feel better overall. So, I'm taking 250mg of 5HTP throughout the day plus 1500mg of GABA (2x a day). If I can remember my magnesium and CLO, then I'm really going good!

Yeah, I found a test tube study that serotonin levels affected how much cortisol the adrenal cells put out.

If 5-HTP is helping depression/anxiety, then it's likely BH4 is low. The way to raise that is folate, and that should increase energy somewhat as well.

Anyone taking GABA - if doesn't have a noticeable effect, then it's probably not worth taking - it's not supposed to cross the blood brain barrier, and doesn't do anything outside the brain/central nervous system.

[tanyalynn]

Originally Posted by neveryoumindthere

So, I ate paprika last night, one of ds' former triggers. Yes I said former. :

Yay!! :

Originally Posted by kjbrown92

Also, I feel like I'm boiling, and my temperature is 98.1 (usually 96.8-97.3) so for me is this a fever? Or just more weirdness on my part. I know low temperature is part of adrenal fatigue, but I've had it my whole life (as far back as I remember, in 4th grade for example). And yes, I suppose I could have had AF that far back.

I've felt my body temp go up (and down) depending on how my thyroid is doing. For me it was a combo of zinc, selenium and iodine. That said--I think how bad my adrenals are also either drags down my thyroid or doesn't, because I had some weird fluctuating times when I was pregnant and it seemed stress related, and I didn't realize it back then but my adrenals were in bad shape. Someday I hope to get my body temp back to 98.6-ish where it used to be. I'm guessing some of your newer supps are either really supporting your adrenals well (and putting less stress on your thyroid as a result), or you've had low-level thyroid problems that, say, needed more zinc. You've got several supps with zinc now, don't you? Doesn't the Travacor have some too?

[neveryoumindthere]

nak
who was it that had trouble with sulfa drugs and/or other antibiotics?
I was reading a link Pat posted on my thread about nigella sativa treating pancreatic cancer. It mentioned how thymoquinone (an extract of nigella sativa oil) increased the acetylation process.
so i went looking on the tuberose article and it said:

Acetylation

Conjugation of toxins with acetyl-CoA is the primary method by which the body eliminates sulfa drugs. This system appears to be especially sensitive to genetic variation, with those having a poor acetylation system being far more susceptible to sulfa drugs and other antibiotics. While not much is known about how to directly improve the activity of this system, it is known that acetylation is dependent on thiamine, pantothenic acid, and vitamin C.

anyway, i'm rambling. i had a point, but i'm typing one handed, holding my squirmy ds, and being forced to play hangman with dd1 and dd2 keeps repeating for me to look at this book she's reading. :

[lil_miss_understood]

Need to look more at this nigella sativa. Sounds like awesome stuff.
I added vitamin C into my daily regimen today, per my schedule. No better time for it- I seem to be getting the sniffles.
Been busy today. Cleaned the bathroom, washed the floors, 2 loads of laundry (so far), made lunch, FINALLY took the cover off DS2's high chair to clean it and the chair ( It was much easier than I expected it to be). I'm sure I did something else but it's not on my list.
GTG, DS2's is using toys to climb again and disturbing DH from actually doing his work.

ETA: My body temp has been 96.8 for "normal" since I was just little- 8ish maybe? My doctors always told me that everyone just has a different normal but the same temperatures are considered "dangerous" regardless of your normal body temperature... So even if you have a temperature for YOU the only time it should be a big concern is when it starts getting into the realm of "dangerous"... Hope that makes some sense.
However, I've always had adrenal issues, I think, and I'm not entirely certain how long my thyroid has really been an issue..

[neveryoumindthere]

ah, I think my point was black seed/nigella sativa has thiamine and vitamin C so it could help the acetylation process.

I just found out too that it has calcium, zinc and folacin. is that the same thing as folate?