Chat Thread: March 28 - April 3 - Page 15

[chlobo]

Gluten Free Sourdough

Hi Everyone,
You might remember that I took a course on making gluten free sourdough a couple of weeks ago. The teacher just started a blog. I thought I'd post in case anyone is interested.

http://www.glutenfreesourdough.blogspot.com/

[tanyalynn]

Originally Posted by changingseasons

Yeah- I totally get what you're saying... it just seems like I'm going the wrong direction, healing-wise, which is frustrating.

I know it will take me a few setbacks to stop the grains completely. Especially since I have an almost brand new 25# bag of buckwheat groats sitting in my kitchen. And I just need to get some more good meal ideas into my brain. Very hard to switch things up when you've been eating the same thing every day for 6+ months!

I'm interpreting our shift to grain-less-ness as a positive step, hear me out and see what you think. I think something like SCD or GAPS will be really healing for my husband's gut, but we need to do a simple paleo-type diet (including stuff that I'm sure is not SCD-legal) for quite a while before he'll be ready to transition to that. I think the stress of changing his gut (because I think that's what SCD and GAPS are trying to do, they're trying to starve out the bad bacteria and promote a good, healthy balance) would be too much right now, he can't take more stress. So if everything you're eating is SCD legal, I'd wonder if you might see a bit more digestive oddness for a while during the transition.

Will catch up with everything else later, I can tell I'm already far behind...

[momofmine]

Originally Posted by neveryoumindthere

I think I may have kicked it though. No pink pee or urge for 2 full days now (well, the urge was gone daays ago). I'm going to continue the black seed/honey, get my urine culture done today-ish?, see what it says and go from there with the uristatin. otherwise, I may have to give up.

I also read that watermelon 'washes the bladder' and so I ate half a small honeydew melon yesterday

I hope it continues to get better! I personally would watch the sugar though, with the melons. They are pretty high in sugars. As I said, I don't know if the GBS I had was the same as you having it in your urine, but for me, one of the biggest things I think was cutting back on carbs in general (to the extent that I could being pregnant). Good luck!

[Phoenix_Rising]

Originally Posted by kjbrown92

gluten is a wheat protein, so it's like saying something is casein free but it could still have milk in it. And for instance DS is sensitive to gliadin (but not gluten, and I still haven't figured out that one). A lot of times for allergies, they are only considering the protein and not the other parts of the food, and if you're intolerant to the whole food than it's a different issue than just the protein. That's why I'm worried about vinegars and other things like that.

I knew gluten was a protein from wheat but I never thought about it that way. How incredibly frustrating. Why can't companies just not put any wheat in GF items or any dairy in CF items?!

Originally Posted by momofmine

My kids have reacted like that to probiotics, my guess would be the probiotics causing the D.

You know, I was thinking about this more last night and the probiotic had dairy in it (at a level that the chiro swore up and down would not create any adverse reactions). I'm betting this is it.

[changingseasons]

Originally Posted by neveryoumindthere

Does this person have a site? I'd be interested to see what i come up with

Yeah, here- but I think you have to pay to actually do anything on it. Probably easier to just check the book out from the library.

Sorry about your doctor- what a . I get a lot of eye rolling at my HCP office too. Makes me want to punch someone in the nose.

Originally Posted by neveryoumindthere

and that's so crazy about the colic/allergies thing. I don't believe in colic personally, I really believe our babies are trying to tell us something..I just thought they label it colic when they don't know what else it could be. Why would babies be born miserable? makes no sense.

eta: I am cutting my vitamin D to the 1000IU for a while. I have a feeling it's too much and i need to cut back
forgot to mention, my level was 61, so I don't see how that's low??

Yeah, 61 doesn't seem low at all. I'm at 20, DD was 11 last time we checked it.

I totally agree about the colic.

And I'm totally jealous of all you mamas going out on the town without partners or kiddos.

Originally Posted by kjbrown92

What a loser. That's horrible. He screws up and then somehow makes it sound like you're a bad customer. Ugh! I hope you get someone wonderful next time.

I know- can you believe the nerve of this guy? Problem is he's a salesman first and foremost, and I just don't fall for sales pitches and I think that annoyed him. He actually told me that he had warned me that he might need a lot of information along the way that didn't make sense, but he didn't have time to explain to me why he needed it. (um yeah- you better GET time to explain it to me, because this is our entire lives and savings that we're talking about here a-hole!) Like asking for our drivers licenses before he could give us the precert. (Which turned out was so that he could get us quotes on having combined homeowners/auto insurance, but why on earth did he need to do that at the moment we're trying to put an offer on a house? Ok, mortgage guy rant over.

Originally Posted by chlobo

Hi Everyone,
You might remember that I took a course on making gluten free sourdough a couple of weeks ago. The teacher just started a blog. I thought I'd post in case anyone is interested.

http://www.glutenfreesourdough.blogspot.com/

Sweet! I just added it to my "followed" blogs.

Originally Posted by Susannah M

You know, I was thinking about this more last night and the probiotic had dairy in it (at a level that the chiro swore up and down would not create any adverse reactions). I'm betting this is it.

Yep- I bet you're right. There is no "safe" level of an allergen, as much as people want to believe it.

[lil_miss_understood]

Originally Posted by Susannah M

I knew gluten was a protein from wheat but I never thought about it that way. How incredibly frustrating. Why can't companies just not put any wheat in GF items or any dairy in CF items?!

Because they suck. That's my conclusion.

Originally Posted by chlobo

Hi Everyone,
You might remember that I took a course on making gluten free sourdough a couple of weeks ago. The teacher just started a blog. I thought I'd post in case anyone is interested.

http://www.glutenfreesourdough.blogspot.com/

Wonderful, thanks!

Originally Posted by kjbrown92

I have two different curry powders that I use (one has cinnamon and one doesn't, so it depends if DD2 is going to eat it). I haven't called the company but no one has reacted to either of them. Want me to call the companies before I recommend them? Dh's aunt (Indian) makes her own and said she was going to send me some but that was back in November. She's probably forgotten.

No, I'm sure if your family's not reacting to it, DS1 won't either. I wish I still had the phone number of my one friend who taught me to make dry curry. I lost it when I moved in with DH years back.

Originally Posted by neveryoumindthere

eta: i am cutting my vitamin D to the 1000IU for a while. I have a feeling it's too much and i need to cut back
forgot to mention, my level was 61, so I don't see how that's low??

Mine was 10 or 12, so I don't see how 61 is low.... Mine is still lower than yours (in the 50s somewhere) and I'm on a maintenance dose of 2,000iu.

Originally Posted by Susannah M

I'm confused. Wouldn't anything labeled as GF have to be wheat free? Of course it is bedtime, so I could just be reading this wrong.

Yeah, as Kathy said, there's more to wheat than just gluten. DS1 reacts to anything wheat-based at all, including vinegars.

[Theloose]

Originally Posted by chlobo

Will biotin help fix cradle cap? Do you put it on the cradle cap? DS still has it.

If the cradle cap is caused by biotin deficiency, then biotin will help it I think that's a common cause Biotin definitely made dd's better (and got rid of her ear crusties!!!!!) but now it's getting worse again, despite increased dosage

Originally Posted by neveryoumindthere

eta: I am cutting my vitamin D to the 1000IU for a while. I have a feeling it's too much and i need to cut back
forgot to mention, my level was 61, so I don't see how that's low??

which test was it?
http://www.vitamindcouncil.org/treatment.shtml
"At this time, we advise even healthy people (those without the diseases of vitamin D deficiency) to seek a knowledgeable physician and have your 25(OH)D level measured. If your levels are below 40 ng/mL you need enough sun, artificial light, oral vitamin D3 supplements, or some combination of the three, to maintain your 25(OH)D levels between 40–65 ng/mL year-round."

Originally Posted by kjbrown92

DD2 has the inward V on her bottom 2 teeth, and DS's bottom 2 teeth are crooked. But there's no tongue ties. We all have super long tongues, that everyone can either stick out and touch their chin with, or the tip of their noses. Everyone can roll their tongues (and DD1 makes her's go upside down, still haven't figured out how she does that one).

Weird. PB says the inward v is usually a sign of a tie. And dd and I are the only ones I know who can flip our tongues over. I've been wondering if it's a tie issue - since it's anchored at the bottom, the muscles can do weird things? Here's another test: (feel free to brush me off, I'm just really curious since this was one of the base assumptions of all this stuff) Open your mouth all the way and then touch the tip of your tongue to the roof of your mouth. It should be able to touch. And here's more in depth discussion.

[changingseasons]

Originally Posted by whoMe

Open your mouth all the way and then touch the tip of your tongue to the roof of your mouth. It should be able to touch. And here's more in depth discussion.

Wow that's funny (in an omg I am so messed up! kind of way). I can barely touch the roof of my mouth when it is closed. And I was clipped as a toddler too.

[Theloose]

Originally Posted by changingseasons

Wow that's funny (in an omg I am so messed up! kind of way). I can barely touch the roof of my mouth when it is closed. And I was clipped as a toddler too.

I can't do it, but I can also open my mouth extra wide, so it muddles my results. I can't touch (though it's close) even when my mouth is only open a 'normal' amount. Everyone in dh's family can touch.

[kjbrown92]

Originally Posted by chlobo

how do they diagnose ostopenia?

Bone scan (they did it at the rheumatologist when they were taking a ton of xrays of my back (that the radiologist didn't back up so they're all GONE and they had the nerve to say they'd have to charge me to get them all taken again.

Originally Posted by momofmine

never,yes our ND just very recently told us this. If it's not e coli, D mannose will probably not work. The Thorne Uristatin is for the other bacteria, and it's not expensive, I actually ordered it overnight from amazon, and it was less than 15 dollars, and only 3.99 for overnight shipping b/c I have Amazon Prime.
But I am usually more slack about spending money on supps, because I will do anything on the green earth to avoid pharmaceutical toxic drugs.

Mine was e. coli and the D Mannose didn't work....

Originally Posted by Susannah M

I knew gluten was a protein from wheat but I never thought about it that way. How incredibly frustrating. Why can't companies just not put any wheat in GF items or any dairy in CF items?!

Originally Posted by JacquelineR

Because they suck. That's my conclusion.

Because that would be too easy. It's like why do they put food coloring in everything? Because they feel like it and why not, it's just another chemical...

I agree with Jacqueline!

No, I'm sure if your family's not reacting to it, DS1 won't either. I wish I still had the phone number of my one friend who taught me to make dry curry. I lost it when I moved in with DH years back.

You're so trusting of my little guinea pigs... we use S&B Oriental Curry Powder (has cinnamon in it, but my favorite; bought cheap at the Asian Market) and Whole Pantry (from Whole Foods) - that one has their GMP thing on it about how it's prepared at the same place that manufactures other things.

Originally Posted by whoMe

Weird. PB says the inward v is usually a sign of a tie. And dd and I are the only ones I know who can flip our tongues over. I've been wondering if it's a tie issue - since it's anchored at the bottom, the muscles can do weird things? Here's another test: (feel free to brush me off, I'm just really curious since this was one of the base assumptions of all this stuff) Open your mouth all the way and then touch the tip of your tongue to the roof of your mouth. It should be able to touch. And here's more in depth discussion.

Yup, I can touch the tip of my tongue to the roof of my mouth. DH can too, and DD2 (she's the Vteeth girl). The other two are at school. None had nursing issues though. All had a very strong/good latch. I can almost reach to the back of my mouth with my tongue. My whole family can touch their noses with their tongues. We're kind of weird though.

[waluso]

Quick OT question for WhoMe (or anyone else with MTHFR knowledge) ... I tested positive for 677 and 1298 mutations (don't remember exact terminology). My sister is 25 weeks pregnant and having major issues. She is 60% effaced, funneling, 1 cm dilated, bleeding, placenta issues, low amniotic fluid. If she also has the MTHFR mutations (which I understand is hereditary), could it be causing her issues? Her dr is an idiot and has been blowing her off for the past few weeks. Luckily he's now sending her to a specialist but I am really worried.

[lil_miss_understood]

Originally Posted by kjbrown92

You're so trusting of my little guinea pigs... we use S&B Oriental Curry Powder (has cinnamon in it, but my favorite; bought cheap at the Asian Market) and Whole Pantry (from Whole Foods) - that one has their GMP thing on it about how it's prepared at the same place that manufactures other things.

Thanks! I'll look for the S&B one at my Asian market the next time we go.
I've been dying for some curried rice and I'm too nervous to try using the curry paste in it.

Just got off the phone with my doctor's office. I had a nice receptionist with whom I got a little snippy. She was asking about my thyroid symptoms and I started off with "I'm very tired and I'm short of breath." Which of course got me "Well, you're PREGNANT." : So I said "Look, I don't care HOW "pregnant" a person is, they should not feel like they have to catch their breath from walking across a room. Yes, I know I'm pregnant so I'll be more tired, but this is ridiculous. I have other symptoms as well. Just because I start with those and then pause (because I walked across the room to my calendar since you said you're booking an appointment for me and now I have to catch my breath), doesn't mean they're my only symptoms and I'm not asking you to nit pick my symptoms. I've been feeling this way for WEEKS now and I'm sick of feeling like I'm going to suffocate just from walking across a room."
:
I apologized.
She called while I was writing this to say she got me in sooner. :

[tanyalynn]

I don't think you had to apologize. She's a receptionist. You've had 2 kids already (which sucks if this happens in someone's first pregnancy), but you've got a reference point for what _your_ pregnancies are supposed to be like. I get ticked when people don't realize they work for me. If I pay the money, I expect people to listen. Agreeing is not required, but respectful listening is.

[changingseasons]

Originally Posted by TanyaLopez

I don't think you had to apologize. She's a receptionist. You've had 2 kids already (which sucks if this happens in someone's first pregnancy), but you've got a reference point for what _your_ pregnancies are supposed to be like. I get ticked when people don't realize they work for me. If I pay the money, I expect people to listen. Agreeing is not required, but respectful listening is.

:

[ASusan]

Originally Posted by changingseasons

I'm at 20, DD was 11 last time we checked it.

CS - Here you are referring to Vit D levels. I just got back results this am which say I'm at 23. MD recommended I take 800 units a day. I may do more. I suspect that I'm already taking more than that through my CLO and liquid cal/mag supplement.

My question is about your daughter's levels. Our LOs are the same age. I asked my MD this am whether we should check DS's levels of Vit D , and he said no, that DS is getting all he needs now through breastfeeding. I didn't question it out loud, but I'm not sure I agree. How did you come about to get your daughter's levels, and how often do you check it? Are you supplementing her? If so, how and how much?

Thank you!

[Theloose]

Originally Posted by waluso

Quick OT question for WhoMe (or anyone else with MTHFR knowledge) ... I tested positive for 677 and 1298 mutations (don't remember exact terminology). My sister is 25 weeks pregnant and having major issues. She is 60% effaced, funneling, 1 cm dilated, bleeding, placenta issues, low amniotic fluid. If she also has the MTHFR mutations (which I understand is hereditary), could it be causing her issues? Her dr is an idiot and has been blowing her off for the past few weeks. Luckily he's now sending her to a specialist but I am really worried.

MTHFR mutations/high homocysteine can cause infertility/miscarriage. My understanding is that it's little blood clots creating issues for baby. I don't know how that plays into her exact symptoms, but chances are good that given YOUR genetics, lots of folate/B12 will be good for her. The mainstream advice with MTHFR and infertility is to take baby aspirin - that inhibits the methyl cycle so that you're not creating as much homocysteine. Definitely not a good thing to do long term, in light of all the detox stuff, but it might be a helpful quick fix in the short term?

[mtn.mama]

Regarding vitamin D levels, as tested by the 25-OH test...

Our ND and MD say that a 50 is the bottom rung on the ladder of good.
And that you want to push for a level of 100!

They also agree that the RDA is still too low, and will likely be altered
to at least 2000 IU daily within a year or two.

2000 IU daily is just that- a maintenance dose for someone with
optimum levels.

So if you're taking less than than and expecting your levels to rise,
well, it ain't gonna happen in this lifetime.

My ND recommends 7-8000 daily as a therapeutic dosage to raise
levels, the MD recommends 15-20000 daily as a therapeutic dose.

[ASusan]

Originally Posted by mtn.mama

Regarding vitamin D levels, as tested by the 25-OH test...

Our ND and MD say that a 50 is the bottom rung on the ladder of good.
And that you want to push for a level of 100!

They also agree that the RDA is still too low, and will likely be altered
to at least 2000 IU daily within a year or two.

2000 IU daily is just that- a maintenance dose for someone with
optimum levels.

So if you're taking less than than and expecting your levels to rise,
well, it ain't gonna happen in this lifetime.

My ND recommends 7-8000 daily as a therapeutic dosage to raise
levels, the MD recommends 15-20000 daily as a therapeutic dose.

OK, this made me laugh. Thanks. ANd I'll aim for a larger dose!

[Theloose]

Originally Posted by ASusan

CS - Here you are referring to Vit D levels. I just got back results this am which say I'm at 23. MD recommended I take 800 units a day. I may do more. I suspect that I'm already taking more than that through my CLO and liquid cal/mag supplement.

My question is about your daughter's levels. Our LOs are the same age. I asked my MD this am whether we should check DS's levels of Vit D , and he said no, that DS is getting all he needs now through breastfeeding. I didn't question it out loud, but I'm not sure I agree. How did you come about to get your daughter's levels, and how often do you check it? Are you supplementing her? If so, how and how much?

Thank you!

If you're that low, chances are even higher that DS is super low as well. I forget how the mechanics of it work, but the vitamin D in your milk definitely reflects your stores. There's a lot of vitamin D supplementation of breastfed babies information out there, and most of it gets a negative light around here because it implies that mom's milk isn't the perfect food. In fact, mom's milk most certainly can be deficient in all sorts of important vitamins. The solution isn't formula, it's getting mom healthy! In the process, though, you might want to go ahead and supplement the LO's, to get them caught up faster.

I've been supping myself only for the B vitamins (milk levels directly relate to mom's current intake), but I try to get dd to eat liver, and I let her chew on a vitamin D supp every once in a while (she asked first, and she's 2yo now). Now that it's getting warmer, don't forget the sun as a fantastic source of vitamin D for both of you!

[WuWei]

My homework report for vit D supplementation

I don't know who did the comprehensive report that Tanya linked on hte vit D thread. http://www.mothering.com/discussions...hypercalciuria But the agenda seems pro-supplementation from the language, persuasive agenda, inclusion of studies considered disreputable by the Cochrane Review standards of double blind, non-interest funded research. It references specific studies of which I have also read quite a few today. http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/79/5/717#R2

Here is the net version:

"A normal serum circulating 25(OH)D concentration in the United States is considered to be > 15 ng/mL (20). Using information from the National Health and Nutrition Examination Survey a group of researchers concluded that having low levels of vitamin D (<17.8 ng/mL) was independently associated with an increase in all-cause mortality in the general population.[71] One study found an elevated risk of ischaemic heart disease in Southern India in individuals whose vitamin D levels were above 89 ng/mL.[70]

Vitamin D stored in the human body as calcidiol (25-hydroxy-vitamin D) has a large volume of distribution and a half-life of about 20 to 29 days.[16] In healthy individuals, calcidiol levels are normally between 32 to 70 ng/mL (80 to 175 nmol/L). The U.S. Dietary Reference Intake Tolerable Upper Intake Level (UL) of vitamin D for children and adults is 50 micrograms/day (2,000 IU). Some symptoms of vitamin D toxicity are a result of hypercalcemia (an elevated level of calcium in the blood) caused by increased intestinal calcium absorption. Vitamin D toxicity is known to be a cause of high blood pressure." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitamin_D#cite_note-PDR-15

I've also read that during stress, we use up about 3000 IU per day.

"The data show that for every 1 µg (40 IU) of vitamin D intake, circulating 25(OH)D increases by 0.28 ng/mL over 5 mo on a given supplemental regimen. Note that a steady state appears to be achieved after {approx}90 d of each dose tested (2, 3).

Thus, doses of 400 IU (10 µg), 1000 IU (25 µg), 4000 IU (100 µg), and 10 000 IU (250 µg) vitamin D/d for 5 mo will result in theoretical increases in circulating concentrations of 2.8, 7.0, 28, and 70 ng 25(OH)D/mL, respectively, all of which values are in the normal range of circulating concentrations according to reference data (20). In the study by Heaney et al (3), not one case of hypercalcemia or hypercalciuria was observed. " (***sample size less than 70).

Mind you, the sample size of most every study I examined was fewer than 200 "healthy people", usually fewer than 70 people in the study, some quit before the end of the study.

Based on this, my recommendation is a MAXIMUM of 2000 IU of vit D3 (cholecalciferol) total intake (check and include multi-vitamin vit D) per day for 90 days and then retest, as "A 0.5-h exposure to the summer sun between 1000 and 1400 in a bathing suit ({approx}3 times the minimal erythemal dose) will initiate the release of {approx}50 000 IU (1.25 mg) of biological vitamin D into the circulation within 24 h of exposure in white persons (25)." (Btw, this naturally acquired vit D is stored for future use.) Varies by race and latitude and cover.

I would not recommend dosing that high on days that one spends a lot of time outside. There are concerns of hypercalcemia and urine calcium excretion, with supplementation; which theoretically could precipitate kidney stones. Personally, I would only recommend supplementing during the October to March time frame, max.

"Food and Nutrition Board guidelines specify 50 µg/d (2000 IU) as the highest vitamin D intake that healthy adults can consume without risking hypercalcemia [it is the upper limit, or the no adverse effect level (NOAEL)].

A prolonged intake of 95 µg (~4000 IU) vitamin D/d is said to be the lowest observed adverse effect level (LOAEL), a dosage that causes hypercalcemia in healthy adults (1). These intake limits have changed little from previous guidelines (2). However, the current guidelines (1) are based on the data of Narang et al (3), who reported that mean serum calcium concentrations were abnormally high in 6 healthy subjects who consumed 95 µg vitamin D/d for 3 mo. More recently, Adams and Lee (4) reported a high urinary calcium-creatinine ratio in 4 patients taking nutritional supplements containing vitamin D2 (ergocalciferol).

Substantial concern has been expressed about the safety of consuming vitamin D at dosages greater than the highest dosage available without prescription (25 µg/d) (1000 IU) (1, 5)."
http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full...2b0d9c10eb4a4c

I've also read Dr. Mercola's recommendations: http://articles.mercola.com/sites/ar...u-thought.aspx

And Sally Fallon's perspective: http://www.westonaprice.org/basicnut...fications.html

regarding vit A ratios and supplementation of vit A.






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