Any Episcopalian Mamas?

[springmama]

I'm exploring getting back into church and I'm trying to decide on a Christian Denomination. Today I visited the Episcopal Church in my town and I really liked it. I haven't been to church in well over a decade. I visited this church once as a kid and it always stuck out in my mind. I occasionally attended a Baptist church as a child.

What is it about the Episcopal Church that you really like? What are some things that you maybe don't like as much?

Any info you want to share about your experience would be so interesting to me. Thanks!

[athansor]

I'm an Episcopal mom, and I'll gladly tell you what I love about the church (and the things I don't like as much. For tonight I'll just say hi though, got a sleeping baby in the lap.

[hopefulfaith]

I'm lurking.

I'm a cradle RC who has begun attending an Episcopal church in my town. I like it, too.

[Watershippy]

I joined the Episcopal Church during college (leaving the Baptist church I was raised in) and I LOVE it so much. I'm beyond hooked. The three things I like most are:

1. they expect that each of us is going to have a different opinion or interpretation, and firmly believe that the whole community is better off because of it. Someone put it really well once, "There is no need to completely agree with the person next to you in the pew, but you must be willing to take communion with them and whole heartedly desire the Peace of Christ to be upon them." Since I was raised in a tradition that over-emphasized [I]private and personal[I] prayer and study, I really love the high position given to communal prayer and worship and seeing God in and amoung us, rather than just in my own head.

2. I feel like I will always be welcome here, no matter what I choose to do in my personal life, what I do or don't feel I need to repent for, or how my opinions and values change over the rest of my life. There is enough room in this denomination for me to grow and change as much as I need to, and follow God where ever that leads, without having to leave the Episcopal Church.

3. The connection to historical and worldwide Christianity is so rich. I love that we used the same outline for the service that was used by Christians in the 5th Century and that long after I've died, the same prayers will be said by my great-great-great-great grandchildren as were said by me and my ancestors. I've been to Anglican services in Haiti and Italy, and even though I don't speak either language, I could recognize what part of the service we were in ("oh, now she's praying for the national leaders...we should be praying for the sick soon...yep, here it is, I'll add my requests"). It is fantastic.

Things I don't like so much:
-it is a denomination with a lot of rich people. I think I may be the only person in my congregation that identifies as part of the lower class. Hopefully you're congregation is a little more diverse.
-a lot of the members don't really know much about the history of the denomation, why certain traditions exist, etc.
-the Episcopal Church seems to work really well for intellectuals and mystical-meditation type people, but extreme extroverts or I-love-to-weep-and-dance-about-in-church people don't tend to get much out of the service.

[EnviroBecca]

I chose the Episcopal Church when I was 14 and love it more all the time. Here are a few of my favorite things:

The slogan, "He died to take away your sins, not your mind."

Plenty of interesting and meaningful rituals, both for Ordinary Time and for the many holidays.

Communion with real bread and real wine, received while kneeling. This just feels right to me personally. (I have been to Episcopal churches that used wafers instead of real bread and/or had people stand to receive, so it varies by parish.)

Openness to diversity of sexual orientation, family structure, and reproductive decisions.

Only baptism and communion are true sacraments. The other five sacramental rites inherited from Catholicism are available if you choose them but are not required.

Compared to a Catholic Mass, I feel the order of service makes more sense: We confess, we exchange the Peace, and then we go into the Eucharistic prayers, whereas Catholics have their admission of sin thing (it's not quite a confession because they do that as a whole separate thing) way at the beginning of the service, they get into the Eucharistic prayers, and then all of a sudden they exchange the Peace--it's kind of jarring.

Compared to many evangelical and other Protestant churches, I appreciate that the Episcopal Church makes a Gospel reading central to every service, instead of over-focusing on the Epistles and/or Revelation.

Children are allowed to receive Communion as soon as they want to and are baptized, instead of having to wait until a certain age.

No belief that people who die unbaptized automatically go to hell.

I'm sure there's more, but that's what comes to mind right away.

[NicaG]

There are many wonderful things about the Episcopal Church, most of which have been articulated eloquently by previous posters. I will add two more things that particularly drew me to the Church: the Book of Common Prayer and the Eucharist.

I think the Book of Common Prayer is a wonderful resource for worship and personal devotion, and it draws us together with others in the Anglican Communion throughout the ages.

In Episcopal churches, the Eucharist is usually celebrated at each service, and to me, a church service feels sort of empty without it. It takes the emphasis off the sermon. Sermons can be great, or they can be tedious, and I feel the sermon shouldn't be the central piece of a worship service. Receiving the Eucharist is a way to commune directly with God, and I like it that the Church offers many opportunities to receive the Eucharist, with some larger churches offering daily services. I also like that any baptized Christian may receive the Eucharist (as opposed to, say, Roman Catholic churches, where access is restricted).

I do have some problems with the Church...I feel like the Church can be a little wishy-washy on some issues, a little flakey. I like it that the Church doesn't force a laundry list of beliefs on its adherents, that we are encouraged to pray and think for ourselves. At the same time, I sometimes envy the rigorous moral stance of the Roman Catholic Church on so many issues (even ones I disagree with) and wish the Episcopal Church would take a stronger stance on a few key issues without worrying about political correctness. I am a little fed up with the issue of gay bishops and how the issue is threatening schism. But the beauty and power of the Church and the liturgy overshadows these issues for me.

[athansor]

I agree with a lot of people here, in that I love the liturgy and the tradition. I left the Catholic church for the Episcopal church a couple of years ago and was glad to be able to continue in attending the Mass. I had gone to a few other types of churches in the interim but wanted to stay with a church with regular Communion.

In addition to the liturgy, I really like the sense of community. At every Episcopal church I've attended, we have a coffee hour after Mass and most people stick around and visit. I can usually count on an Episcopal church to be very child-friendly when I'm travelling and the kids are very welcome in our home church.

The social justice work of the Episcopal Church is very important to me as well, and I'm happy to be in a church that includes people like Archbishop Tutu. I think the work the church is doing globally as well as what we are doing locally with our meals and coat closets is important and is a big part of the church.

I'm also glad that the Episcopal church is getting the reputation of being inclusive, and I personally am glad to have Bishop Robinson. I'm currently reading his book "In the Eye of the Storm" and it's a very inspiring read.

[Juvysen]

I was raised episcopalian but have since moved toward alternative spirituality, but I find this conversation very interesting. :

One think I love about the church is the pomp and circumstance - that is, the tradition surriounding the service and that it tends to be sort of fancy? That's not the right word, but something like that. It's also something I dislike about the church, though, so, it's really not a useful observation. I still LOVE the christmas service, though... easter, too.

[springmama]

Thanks for all of your responses! I went to the Church again this past Sunday (Palm Sunday) and I just loved it! They are doing so much for Holy Week too, I wish that I had time to attend all of this week's services.

On Easter we will be traveling so I won't be able to attend services there but I will be going to Mass at the Catholic church nearby because they have an early Mass. I think that I have narrowed it down to either Episcopal or Catholic so it will be nice to see them both.

I am so confused and intrigued at the same time. The inquireres class is starting in a couple of weeks and I think that I am going to take it.

I love the traditions and the communion and the kneeling it seems so, I don't know Holy or something to me. Please share anymore experiences that you would like to share.

[indie]

Originally Posted by Watershippy

Things I don't like so much:
-it is a denomination with a lot of rich people. I think I may be the only person in my congregation that identifies as part of the lower class. Hopefully you're congregation is a little more diverse.

I've been in the Episcopal Church for four years and I like it very much. The rich people thing though has been the most difficult adjustment for me. I grew up relatively poor and things really are so much different in the Episcopal Church. Our parish is not even in a particularly rich area of town, but most of the kids go to private schools and are better off than your average person in the community. I've heard people whose families I know are bringing in six figures complaining about money and it makes me so ill. Its just obscene. The other day a woman from church (a great woman by the way) left her good clothes at a hotel by accident. She said, "I'm going to have to wear second hand clothes on Easter like a bum." I stood there thinking about the second hand clothes I wear to church all of the time including the moment she was talking to me, LOL. And I had chosen outfits for all three of my kids that were second hand. The same woman complemented my girls on their spring coats Easter day which were also second hand.

It makes me sad that churches are so segregated by class. I would love to see some of my well off Episcopal friends fall in love with folks across class lines. Not take pity on them but really love them as Christ called us to love our neighbors as ourselves. And share. Share money if there is a real need but so much more than that: educational opportunities, information, power. The things that are closed off to the poor. The things that the poor so often don't even know exist.

All of that said, there is much to love about the Episcopal Church. I think that others have said it well. I'll add that at my church we have two priests, one is liberal and one is conservative. I love this. I know it wouldn't work out in all churches, but I love that there is so much room in our church for different ways of seeing things. As someone else said, you can change your opinions, you can grow, you can follow where God leads you and there is intellectual room to do this.

[Bluegoat]

I became Anglican, which is what we call the Episcopal Church in Canada, when I was in university. The things that are great are:

A tradition of scriptural interpretation and liturgy tied to the history of the church. (Scripture, reason, tradition.)

The Book of Common Prayer - Cramner was a fine writer and the liturgy is really enriched by it, and the version of the psalms found in it is great (though I am not sure if it is in the American book anymore?)

A fine scholarly tradition.

Really really great music.

An acceptance that certain kinds of variation in doctrine and practice are ok.

What I don't like:

Though I used to think the political structure was great, the increase in the power of Bishops in recent years, like a bunch of little Popes, is a bad thing. I think it has a lot of direct responsibility for the problems in the Anglican communion now.

The idea that any variation in doctrine or practice is ok. A huge embarrassment that any doctrine might not be politically correct.

The introduction of bad music and bad liturgy.

A real impoverishment of the scholarly tradition, and also less understanding of what the church believes by average people in the pews.


The destruction of the scripture, reason, tradition model.

[EnviroBecca]

Not all Episcopal parishes are so affluent as Indie's. The majority of people at my church are what you might call "middle class intellectuals": teachers, researchers, therapists, and others whose work is focused more on learning and/or helping others than on earning money. A lot of us are sort of threadbare looking. Yesterday I saw very few new-looking or really fancy outfits. When I compliment people on their clothes, I generally hear, "I was so happy to find this blouse at Goodwill because it matches this skirt I've had since college," and things like that. On the downside, we're struggling financially as a parish.

Bluegoat, what is the "scripture, reason, tradition model"?

[Bluegoat]

Originally Posted by EnviroBecca

Not all Episcopal parishes are so affluent as Indie's. The majority of people at my church are what you might call "middle class intellectuals": teachers, researchers, therapists, and others whose work is focused more on learning and/or helping others than on earning money. A lot of us are sort of threadbare looking. Yesterday I saw very few new-looking or really fancy outfits. When I compliment people on their clothes, I generally hear, "I was so happy to find this blouse at Goodwill because it matches this skirt I've had since college," and things like that. On the downside, we're struggling financially as a parish.

Bluegoat, what is the "scripture, reason, tradition model"?

It's the way Episcopalians and Anglicans are supposed to understand doctrine and theology. We are supposed to use all three together, pretty much on an equal basis. (Although we do say that anything required for salvation can be found in Scripture, so things that fall outside of that are not required.) So in looking at an issue, say women as priests; we need to find everything that scripture says that could apply. We need to fit it together in a logical way. We add what tradition tells us, and we fit that in in a logical way. Then we add other things that our reason tells us about the issue.

It can be a difficult model, because we aren't allowed to leave out any of the parts. If one doesn't seem to fit in, it can't just be left behind.

[athansor]

So, in what way do you see the church as leaving that model behind?

[Bluegoat]

Originally Posted by athansor

So, in what way do you see the church as leaving that model behind?

Mostly in that there is a tendency to overlook one or the other of them, rather than use all three together. Not by everyone, but it doesn't seem to be well understood by the majority of Anglicans, including the ones that represent their parishes in votes.

So for example - and I realize this is just an example of just one person - at our regional meeting there was a discussion about synods' vote over same sex-blessings. One very vocal member was not happy with the vote, as she was in favour of same sex blessings being allowed. Her reason was that it was a social justice issue. Or it is very common to see people argue the same issue simply by trading scriptural quotes. And tradition tends to get left out entirely - any change is simply a positive development of doctrine, we know better now. So here in Canada the decision for synod to vote on same-sex blessings as an issue of practice rather than an issue of doctrine, because what the Church taught in the past is seen as having no relevance.

It would be sad if this problem was just among laypeople, but unfortunately it's also Bishops and Priests. I'm not sure what causes it though - t seems to be a pretty simple formula that has a lot of common sense to it.

[Watershippy]

Scripture, tradition, and reason are lovingly referred to as "the three-legged stool," because if you give less consideration to one (like shortening one leg of the stool), you will fall over!!

[indie]

Originally Posted by EnviroBecca

Not all Episcopal parishes are so affluent as Indie's.

I wouldn't really consider my parish to be affluent compared to others in the city. Compared to the working class neighborhood that we are located in most folks in the parish are better off than your average person in our immediate community.

[athansor]

As far as affluent churches go, our church lately has been through some interesting times. Before I moved here, the church suffered a split, with the more conservative members leaving to form an Anglican church under the authority of bishops in Latin America and Africa. Locally, that correlated to the wealthier members of the church forming this new group while in general, the less affluent stayed.

The effects of this have been interesting. Since they were the group that left, the beautiful old church remained with our Episcopal group. In that sense, we are very blessed...the church is a wonderful building with amazing art and woodworking. It also has a lot of space, enabling the church to offer a huge clothing 'store' with free clothing available to anyone in the community and to offer free meals...which is great because the local Salvation Army soup kitchen closed down and we can pick up the slack.

The downside at first is that collections are down and attendance has shrunk. However, something interesting is happening. The church is starting to become a place where everyone feels welcome, regardless of economic status. We are able to do much more outreach, and people who might have felt intimidated to attend church surrounded by the 'country club' set now attend regularly.

[indie]

That's interesting athansor. We had a situation in our diocese where the majority of people had left a parish to organize under an African bishop. The remaining people had a huge facility and a bunch of land (something like 27 acres) that they were not financially able to maintain. A newly ordained priest was sent in to help the members of the parish grieve the loss and to help them sell the property and start over again. Well, much to their surprise, along came a group of refugees with a priest among them who made the proposal for them to join forces and farm the land. So that is what they are doing. The first fruits go to the refugees, the second to the original members of the church and the rest is sold at the farmers market and shared with food banks.

I love these stories because they show how God is raising up from the ashes of disunity something new and beautiful in the church. Thank you for sharing your story about how your churches loss has opened it up to really doing the work of the church in the community.

[Jyotsna]

I'm a Hindu now, but I was baptised in and attended the Episcopal church for the first 30 years of my life. My son currently sings in the boy choir there, and so for the last three years we have been attending concerts and occassional services there. I was confirmed in the church at 12, and still have the service and music memorized. It's what I liked about the church all along, the rituals, the incense, the pomp and circumstance. But I get that and much more in the Hindu temple now, and I feel a deeper connection to God. This is not to try to convince you against the Episcopal church. I loved it until I found Hinduism, but just to tell you what I really liked about the church, and still find comfort in when I am there. I find it a very ecumenical atmosphere, very accepting of variations on personal faith.

I attended an Enquirers class around the age of 30, and that was the thing that sent me looking again, because I couldn't get clear answers to my questions. Best of luck, and if you are clearly a Christian, you couldn't find a better church in my opinion.