I so desperately wanna chime in on the CL discussion but I first want to make sure the instinct stuff is clear. I'm ETA titles to make such a long post easier to navigate (I don't get on here enough).Is the reason why we ignore instinct even relevant?
Just in case my communication has gone awry for others also I'll clarify I have an understanding of what SB is saying.
|Okay - that's great. I'm not arguing with it. But, in the long run, it has nothing to do with him not "ignoring" his instincts. Even if he has a squat toilet in your home, and then in his own home, he's going to have to use a public toilet sometime (or push his instincts back further, by just not pooping when he needs to in the first place). So, are you saying that if you raise him this way, and he uses a public toilet, even once, he's "ignoring" his instincts?
|Yeah - my parents taught me to use a toilet. That's not in doubt. They also taught me to go into another room if I wanted to play with my genitals. However, nobody ever suggested that this is/was anything but a cultural norm, or that it's the only way to do things, or the natural way to do things.
|I truly don't get what you're talking about. If you truly reclaim your instinctual self, and stop ignoring your instincts (ie. following certain cultural norms), you'll end up in jail.
You seem to be stating that it is not ignoring an instinct if there is no choice. For example, if our culture, law, or society dictates we must
do something that is against our instincts, then it is not ignoring
our instincts, it is a kind of choice, en mass. Your example being that my son will follow his toileting instincts when possible, but if he uses a public toilet, he is forced to sit, not squat. Therefore he isn't ignoring his instinct to squat, he is just doing what is possible
Have I understood so far?
I have followed, I think, what your point is, and that you are saying that due to these constraints, it isn't ignoring an instinct it is just doing things how we do them.
I am saying that just because it is due to societal constraints that we learn to ignore them does not negate that we do
learn to ignore them.
WHY we are taught to ignore them is irrelevant.
THAT we are taught to ignore them is the point.
Plus, most importantly, we must know how to identify the instinct before we can say we are choosing to do an alternative.Is it a choice if it is done due to lack of an alternative?
You've said it is a choice to do something other than instinct (such as sit on a toilet rather than squat), because of a law or social constraint. However, I do not call this choice. I call this forced compliance
How I came to choose
to ignore certain instincts, is first knowing I was
ignoring them. For example, toileting. I did not know until ten years ago that the natural way to poop is in the squat position! And I'm a naturopath, so that's saying a lot. We learn a lot, so the finer details get missed sometimes.
Once I learned how to toilet naturally, I was able to identify the signals my body had been giving me all my life. I tried to squat where possible, but I also chose to continue to ignore this instinct
when faced with a public toilets. Now
it is a choice. Before that, it was a learned behaviour
I did without knowing an alternative or questioning it at all. Before I knew it was an instinct, it was one I had been taught to ignore
. Society forced it on me, it gave me no choice; At no point was I asked by anyone if I would prefer to squat, I just got potty trained and then shown a toilet and that's what I learned
. It was not a choice to ignore it. Now
I can say I "choose to ignore it" occasionally.
The fact is, most
of us are like I was, they don't know, and until told, will never know.
If there is no alternative, there is no choice. If there is an alternative but we don't know there is, there is still no choice.Teaching From Birth To Ignore An Instinct
This may clear it up... the dog has an instinct to kick his legs after a poop. If he is prevented from doing so for some reason (someone holding his legs for instance) then he won't be able to. Using the logic you've used in your posts, you would say that this is not ignoring
his instincts; it simply isn't possible to kick his legs so he doesn't. You have a point there, I agree. But I disagree that it is choice, it's forced compliance. But at least in this example he is in touch with the instinct, and can and will go back to it when it is possible again.
Now, if you taught the dog from birth not to kick his legs after a poo, he would get to the point where not only does he no longer even get the urge to kick, he can't even remember ever having that urge in the first place. I would say he has been taught to ignore his instinct
. Is this not obvious? If you respond as though I've just stated something "everyone knows", first go back and check what you've been saying first.How Instilling Our Norms can Stunt our inherent unlimited potential AND our Instincts
From birth we are unlimited potential, we could see in the dark if taught or if it were a need, we could hear like a wolf, we could be unlimited beings. But we only switch areas of our DNA on or off depending on needs
, and what we are conditioned into
. A human raised by wolves can't walk on two legs and won't hug you if you're sad but they can smell you 10 miles away and know exactly how much fear you feel and they will howl at the full moon for reasons only they know.
As we raise our children we repeat certain behaviours over and over and if it is in direct opposition to an instinct in our children then the new learning will trump the instinct, and will also trump the potential for something greater than that which has been taught.
Back to the dog, if he could talk, then we could explain to him that he has an instinct to kick his legs after he poops, and that he has learned to ignore it. This would be the first essential step
in pup reclaiming this instinct, if he should want to
. He first needs to identify the instinct before
he can say that he is choosing to ignore the instinct.How Does That Relate To A Human Parent?
Translate that to a new mother. She has been raised in a culture where she sees babies in prams and cribs and who are left crying for seconds, minutes, or even hours before being held and nurtured. She sees this everywhere she goes – friends, family, TV, movies - and this dictates her “social conditioning”. Upbringing has resulted in some women in such emotional poverty or such circumstances that she does not
feel that tug to pick up her child at all.
Many of us, gratefully, at least had a tug, a sensation, that something just wasn't “right” when our babies cried. But the story of the mother watching on the monitor is ignoring her instinct, yes... and yes, she has been taught to do so by culture etc, but what of the poor woman who does not
feel that while watching her baby scream? I can attest to there being tons of women like that, TONS, and it breaks my heart for both the mamas and the babies. She doesn't know it's better to squat to poop, better to pick up a crying baby, move her child away from a person who has “paedophile” written all over them... and a mix of other instincts she has long ago buried deep beneath a pile of new learned survival mechanisms.My Own Reclamation of Parental Instinct
So I cannot see how we are choosing any of this. I will admit to not identifying my mothering instinct with my first baby. I had to be de-schooled in conditioning and re-schooled in instinct and nature. My baby cried and all I felt was “how do I stop this?” I did not
feel any sense of “pick her up and it will stop” and this was also confirmed by the fact that when I picked her up, she didn't stop crying. No one told me that the longing, aching feeling of dread and hopelessness was from lack of contact with my baby. No one
. And I didn't know how to “hear” my body tell me either. I could only feel, and all I felt was misery.
It was another culture that finally showed me how and why to hold my baby and why not to let her cry if at all possible - and the feeling lifted, and my life changed. This is why I am familiar, intimately, with the plights of Western families everywhere and why I help. If we could identify and listen to our instincts, MDC would become instantly defunct because no one would need the advice here.