post #741 of 1044
4/26/09 at 4:28pm
I'm not looking for a solution, as it isn't a problem. My dc accept that they must wear a seatbelt (or be in a carseat, as the case may be). I just don't understand how this conversation would work without "must" (or need to, etc), why it is preferable to happen without must, or how it actually is not at "must" when they choose to travel by car.
I'm kind of surprised to hear that there are children like that who simply accept A and B as the only possible options, actually...
And this is what I was talking about earlier when I alluded to examining our own beliefs and ideas... because there are never just A and B... or even A, B, and C. We have a whole alphabet of options, and beyond...
|especially to one who doesn't seem to truly want to understand or accept the difference?|
|What I hear though is you saying how you don't agree with or get the very fundamentals of CL.|
|Why do you follow CL if this is how you feel about the fundamentals of it? Perhaps, like you said in earlier posts many many many times, you are a CC mama who uses consensual solutions as a tool. There is nothing wrong with that mama. That rocks for you and your family so you need to embrace it and be proud of it! You don't have to determine anything about another persons way of life to own your way of life and be proud of it!|
|At that point, maybe the benefit of the doubt could be given to the CLers? and I say this because CLers who believe fully in CL and it "works" for them know this to be true in a way that others who don't can't know. There is no way for me to "know" what you do is best for your family or not - I just trust that it is. So I'm humbly asking for the same, but I accept if you are not willing to do so.|
Originally Posted by mammal mama
And I was sharing about how we left a church we were in, because of our concern that there was a stress on everyone needing to experience God in a certain way -- and my husband and I realized we wanted our own children to feel free to experience God in their own ways.
|I was more trying to get at the fact that I think 3 year olds are really impressionable. So much so that they can consent to things that are not right because the trust fully in their parents and that that can go both ways, good and bad.|
|I was faced with something like this was when my first son was about 8 months old. I never ever grabbed anything out of his hands - I asked, gave him something more interesting, or waited until he was done. We were walking back to the car, and he wanted to hold the car keys. Fine. I put him in his car seat, and he won't give the keys back to me (which he previously had always done when I asked). I explain we need to go, I try to give him other more interesting items, no go. Meanwhile, it's 100 degrees out, and I am about to explode in the hot car. I finally had to just rip the keys out of his hand to get the a/c > turned on. He wailed, I felt horrible, but could not figure out what > else to do.|
|I would have climbed back out of the car, sat in the shade until ds was done playing with the keys, or when he dropped them, I would take the necessary car key off and give the key ring back to ds.|
|Thank you for your response. I appreciate the thoughtful reply. But I have to say that a lot of this sounds like the child's wants being more important than mine.|
|It sounds like you don't feel that your needs are being met with the process? Or that the act of negotiating is perceived as "giving in"? Or that you really could just use some process for efficiency and expediency, ease? What aspect of the process (solutions) feels discounting or invalidating of your needs? What part of the process (solutions) feels that the child's wants are more important? I am wanting to understand the ambivalence about the process.|
|Getting the baby back out of the car and hiking 10 minutes back across the concrete parking lot in the extreme heat to find shade so he can continue playing with the keys is putting his needs way in front of my own. What about if I had another child with me? What about their needs?|
|I believe that there were other suggestions that could also meet your needs. Hiking for 10 minutes across a concrete parking lot in extreme heat to find shade doesn't sound fun, I agree. I believe there are many alternatives that don't include this necessity. The issue is to find one that is agreeable to both (all) parties. Personally, I wouldn't go to places alone with multiple children where I had to hike in that situation. That sounds like something that I would work to find another alternative to meet the need of that outing. Perhaps, going when it wasn't as hot. Perhaps, taking a stroller, perhaps, having a second set of keys, perhaps....|
|I don't get why it's wrong for kids to learn that sometimes they don't get a choice in what they
do at that moment. As an adult
there are plenty of times that I don't have a choice
|Are there times that you don't have a choice? I guess, I don't feel that I have anyone deciding
what I have to do at any moment. I
believe that I do not have to do anything I don't want to do. I believe our son doesn't have to do
anything he doesn't want to do
either. I don't. He doesn't. That works for us. Perhaps, we just believe differently.
|I guess I feel it is important for kids to learn that they have to make compromises too.|
|Wow, I totally disagree with this. I believe it is important for our son to believe that he doesn't
have to do anything he doesn't want to do. Our beliefs are so different. I feel so empowered
knowing that I do have choices, that I can negotiate, that I don't have to compromise my needs,
my principles, my beliefs, values, etc. I believe that being true to myself prohibits martyring and
sacrifice. I believe that I deserve not to 'have to make compromises' in living my life. There is
reality. But living with reality is a process of finding the tools to negotiate for what I
need/want/desire and I practice honoring other's needs/wants/desires as equally valid. The
solutions which we create that do not include compromise, which are mutually preferable, are
much more satisfying,
imo. Compromise in the context that you describe sounds like sacrifice. That is not something
that I embrace or practice. Nor do
I expect or feel that it is important to learn or live. Personally, I believe the opposite.
I just realized that I've been having online conversations about parenting in this way for at least twelve years, and it always comes down to playing in the street and sitting in a carseat. Neither of which have been a huge issue in my life, I have to say...
I think that with young children, words aren't used nearly as often as many people seem to be thinking. If you know that a child won't choose what she truly wants when given an oral choice, don't give her that kind of choice. When Rain was little - under 2 - we used to play in the street (neighborhood, not busy, all the kids would play there) and whenever a car came I yelled out "Car!" with great urgency, exaggerated my facial reaction, and grabbed the nearest kids to zoom out of the street. The other kids got into it, and Rain also thought it was a lot of fun and followed along.
It never occurred to me to sit down and ask her if she wanted to play in the street or run out of the street - I led, she followed, and it was good for both of us. There's nothing long with social learning, as long as you're not coerced into doing so.
I suppose if Rain (or another kid) had not run out of the street with the rest of us, I would have found another way to deal with it, but it was a fun game and they all enjoyed it...