This post was amazing:
Originally Posted by GoBecGo
Calm, thanks for your further explanation. I actually don't know why i'm having a problem since in many ways i'm the other side of the aim for The Work for lots of things in life. Maybe i'll type some of it out and see if i become enlightened as to my own reasons for resistance. It is definitely "look forward to" that i take issue/have most troubles with.
For example, i was sexually abused as a child. I forgive my abuser. He is my brother. He too was sexually abused by an adult and he began abusing me as a result. Pain trickles down, i have seen this in many other places, and i accept that it's an aspect of humanity that is normal. Bullied children grow up and bully their families, those kids bully smaller kids at school, those kids bully littler siblings at home - it's not 100% the case, but it's common enough for me to be able to see the whole cycle of abuse and my place in it is merely circumstantial, not personal. He did not abuse me specifically, he abused the closest person to him who was accessible - i'm his younger sibling, i'm confident if i'd been the older sibling it wouldn't have been me. I feel very like a struck-by-lightening person might - the "blame", if there needs to be any, lies so far back along a chain of now-mostly-dead abusers through generations of people it's not worth assigning. This pain is only "mine" if i choose to pick it up and run with it, and i don't. I'm not interested. It is their pain if they want it, but i don't want it, and it's nothing to do with me. I often have a hard time trying to explain to people that however awful it might SOUND, i only had one childhood and since i never experienced THEIR idea of a "good" or "perfect" childhood i have no self-pity about having missed out. I had a fine childhood, it was far later i found out the elements that at the time were uncomfortable or confusing or very very occasionally unpleasant were considered the height of revolting to most of the rest of society. And in fact, a bit of an epiphany for me was realising how much impact that had - far more than being abused, realising how the rest of society feels about child abuse and incest can really leave one feeling revolting and very "poor me" about the whole thing. So it is that i have completely accepted that it happened, how much relevance it happening to me has to my Self (none) and what i can do about it now (nothing, and nothing needs to be done). I don't fear i happening again because it cannot, because i'm not a child anymore, but if it did i suppose i would cope with it, since i have and do already.
But i cannot convince myself that i could ever embrace it happening again. I don't go through life anticipating that i will be victimised, but equally i DO keep my eyes wide open and watch out for signs that it could happen. Though it is perfectly possible, i know, to overcome the hangover of sexual abuse (i was also raped when i was 14 by a boyfriend) it is not no work, effortless. In the scenarios i hae been in where i was raped i would NOT be raped again, i would defend myself more effectively. That's not to say i blame myself or my behaviour for the rapes or abuse in m past, i don't at all, but having been through it once i can see how many things i could have done to prevent it - a victim is almost always complicit in their victimisation and i was no exception. At this point in time i would happily be raped to avoid my DD being raped or either of us being killed. Ideologically i would accept rape as a bargain against the death of me or someone i loved, but i do no REALLY think this is a bargain that is made. I can see that if the choice was watch DD be raped or be raped myself i WOULD look forward to being raped, but that is just not reality. Someone who threatens to kill me either plans to or not and accepting rape will not make any difference to that. Likewise a rapist's word is hardly his bond - he might easily rape me and THEN DD - i would rather not accept that risk.
So, what has all this typing done for me...? I'm not sure. I definitely understand the concept that overcoming fear is freeing, and having been raped by a boyfriend i did have to accept that *might* happen again with every boyfriend thereafter. Obviously it isn't likely, but it's possible. And i embrace that in the sense that i still had boyfriends, and have a very happy relationship right now with my Dear Dear DP. But i do not "look forward" to him raping me. I don't believe that doing so would make it more likely, it doesn't increase my fear factor considering it. I think the only context i can put it where it's kind of true (in a twisted way) is the same as when i feel threatened by the way someone is acting when i have DD with me. I look at whoever it is and i think "just try something, just try it and find out how dangerous it is to attack a lioness when her cub is with her" because i feel powerful and strong in response to fear nowadays. I suppose i could "look foward" to being raped in the context of flexing the defensive muscles i only found during recovery. But in the simple sense of eager anticipation? I don't look forward to suffering, however brief.
What you said in there reminds me very much of something I always find hard to put into words, but I'll try. When I've tried to explain to others how reality just "is", it is our judgment that makes it something good or bad, they invariably mention some horrific thing children go through and say "how can that be anything other than bad?". Much like the seatbelt example for "there is no such thing as must", we go straight for the jugular and see how the responder copes.
Obviously, it is almost impossible to even try to discuss this with someone who hasn't at least a basic foundation on dichotomy, duality, judgment and so on from a philosophy stand point. I don't enter into it at all without that foundation because it always ends up them thinking I think a little girl being gang raped is a great idea.
But your example there is very similar, the bolded part in particular.
Sex between siblings or family in general is not seen as all that bad in some small obscure cultures. The guilt and shame and confusion just doesn't exist in the way it does in our culture if the same issue crops up, and we even have a word that carries much negativity with it to describe it: incest.
Also, in other cultures, sex is just done, no big deal. When they feel like it, they just do it, regardless of what kids or family are around, much like other animals do really. They live naked most of the time, there is no body shame, no sexual shame... etc. "White man" comes along and tells them they should feel shame (because WE do, so everyone should, eh?). Yet that same white man has a culture riddled with sex crimes and psychotherapy because so few people can function healthfully anymore. We start to panic at the thought that a child might see us having sex, or even playfully being with our partner when it isn't the act that is harmful, but the thoughts we give our children about the acts.
What is the problem here, the public nakedness and sex, or the judgment
of it? The incest, or the thoughts
we grow to have about incest? They are triggering subjects for some people, so before you knee jerk a response about how disgusting it all is, just behave a little like a philosopher for a minute and remove your own personal opinion, or preconceived ideas and just toy with the ideas for a while.
This kind of thing is how a person can get to a place where they can
say there is no such thing as good and evil, it is all an illusion
(ie, a thought, or an opinion, or judgment). A thing either is or it isn't, anything more than that is illusion.
During my Buddhist years, I had a brilliant Rinpoche of Tibetan lineage who used to blow my tiny brain regularly and could sometimes do it just with a well timed sentence. He sat in front of me with a tiny table with his scrolls and cup of tea, which he took such deliberation to organise and pour it was hypnotic to watch. And he often used "cup" in his analogies; I'll never forget that cup!
He'd ask things like, "what is this? We call it cup. What is cup?" and then he'd go into concepts and talk about how if he dropped cup, what would it be then? And how if he blindfolded me and turned me around in many circles, walked me for a long way, turned me more times and then said, "now, go west", what would I do? I said, "well, I don't know where I am, I can't go west without east, where's east?" and he'd just say "exactly" As though that rests his case. And I'd have to sit on that for a week.
I learned that things and concepts only exist in relation to other things. I only know west in relation to east. Without east, west does not exist. Cup is only cup because of everything else that is NOT cup. The cup is only pretty if I think
it is. And pretty only exists in relation to un-pretty. When we have nothing in our minds, no memory, cup is not even cup, for there is no word. There is merely that thing, sitting there, and someone tells us it is cup
, and we call it cup, and now anything that looks like that and unlike anything else, they are then also cup. but it just "is". Without memory or judgment, I cannot call it anything, I cannot say it is pretty, or obnoxious, or irritating. It just IS.
With the foundation of cup (as I like to call it
), it is a tiny step towards understanding how the very enlightened can see something "evil" or "horrendous" as simply "is". Not good or evil, just life. Nothing, absolutely nothing, is inherently anything. It takes a person to make a judgment, until that moment, it is just a concept. Some people might think the cup is beautiful, some might hate it. Some might like to hurt others and see blood, others think that is evil. We all think we are right, and the more of us think one way
, the closer we get to calling something "fact". When it is all opinion, judgment.
Most people don't like that. If you think the "I am willing to be raped" is bad, I'm sure this one ranks up there with "get this woman a straight jacket".