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Do you prefer a family Hierarchy or Consensuality? Updated! - Page 47

Poll Results: Family Dynamics: Hierarchy or Consensuality?

 
  • 2% (17)
    Definite hierarchy with rules, strict structure; decisions made on behalf of children.
  • 29% (176)
    Hierarchy with guidelines, routine, soft structure; most decisions made for children.
  • 9% (56)
    Consensual family; decisions round table, children are self determining; few or no rules.
  • 10% (61)
    Mostly Consensual; guidelines, choice where possible, highly structured
  • 45% (277)
    Combo; children know their place in hierarchy but have as much freedom as poss within that structure
  • 2% (18)
    I don't know what you are talking about.
605 Total Votes  
post #921 of 1044
Any solution offered to your expired problems will be about how to prevent in the future. There is no solution we can give you that will solve the problem that already took place in the past. You feel you have proven there are not always consensual solutions. I hear you
post #922 of 1044
Quote:
Originally Posted by Calm View Post
They are all "how to fix a situation in future", which is not how situations work in real life. We are in situations NOW, not in future. We haven't got a second set of keys now, we haven't parked in the shade this time, we haven't brought the sling this time... and so on. Which is my point. Because most CL solutions as I've seen over and over on that message board and on this thread are how to prevent something happening in future. .
Yes. Maybe for a person with true CL-serenity, the approach is "do my best in the moment, and look at it as an opportunity to find a new CL solution (although not nec at this moment....it is all in the process)". Maybe?

To me (not having the CL-zen, lol), it feel more like a series of failures, and pressure to be perfectly proactive and vigilant, trying to avoid these moments.

Is it all in parental personality?

Either way, Calm, I am *sure* that your struggles are not unknown to CL families. I suspect there are more similarities than differences in reality, and the real difference lies in perception and focus.
post #923 of 1044
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunnmama View Post

Either way, Calm, I am *sure* that your struggles are not unknown to CL families. I suspect there are more similarities than differences in reality, and the real difference lies in perception and focus.
well put :
post #924 of 1044
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunnmama View Post
Yes. Maybe for a person with true CL-serenity, the approach is "do my best in the moment, and look at it as an opportunity to find a new CL solution (although not nec at this moment....it is all in the process)". Maybe?

To me (not having the CL-zen, lol), it feel more like a series of failures, and pressure to be perfectly proactive and vigilant, trying to avoid these moments.

Is it all in parental personality?

Either way, Calm, I am *sure* that your struggles are not unknown to CL families. I suspect there are more similarities than differences in reality, and the real difference lies in perception and focus.


Exactly! "What is cup?" :



Pat
post #925 of 1044
Thread Starter 
Sunnmama, yes, I agree. As a CL parent for years, I think I have had my fair share of many scenarios, successes and failure. I know the hiccups and areas that can trip up consensual families. I just don't think it is necessary to believe some of the things I've read on this thread and on the website to be a consensual family. I have spoken to (online at least) many people who were turned off the idea due to those aspects. And no, it isn't about seducing those others, but it is about looking at if those aspects are necessary, why they are there as part of CL, and how many other people might benefit from CL if they weren't turned off it because of those areas. If I know of people who are, there are no doubt many more.

The things I am referencing are here, which are:
Quote:
There are no musts and must nots.

There are always consensual solutions.

Compromise is a lose-lose option.

All wants can be met all the time.

If you have enough trust and faith in your children, they don't do irrational things or act in selfish ways or impose their will on another.

If you raise your children consensually, they do not do irrational things or act in selfish ways or impose their will on another.

We always have choices.

With accurate information, only the individual is capable of making decisions regarding what is right for him. No one is better at making those decisions than the individual.
None of those things are necessary "beliefs" to be a consensual family.

It was during one of the moments where there were simply no consensual solutions to my problem that I realised that it is a disservice to believe such a statement (as "there are always consensual solutions") when in the face of the opposite. The statement is false, as I said months ago, pages ago, and kept on saying over and over. The responses I got varied from "why does it matter?" (irrelevant) and "well, it works for me" (whatever that means... you always find consensual solutions, is that what that means? It isn't really clear, nor does it negate it's falseness).

I demonstrated, with hypotheticals and real life situations, how it is a false statement. No one could deny it, yet they still stood by the statement (like denying the white crow, even while looking right at one). It's like no one even cares that this statement is false! It is affecting people, it matters!

I was in situations without CL solutions, with years of experience of looking for and finding consensual solutions and going on forums like this one and helping others embrace CL and helping them find consensual solutions and saying all the things I now hear others say to me. This isn't new to me; yet true to the laws of life, I found myself in exactly that position - a situation without a consensual solution. Then I found myself in more of them. I examined the situations, my children, my husband, my beliefs, my style of parenting, the choices I had. "What am I overlooking here? Surely there is something I'm not seeing?" I asked others, ranging from CL parents through to others. Nothing, no help whatsoever. Because the situations I was in had no consensual solutions. I was scrabbling around for them but they didn't exist.

Black and white, I was staring at the fact of it, going against my previous belief system. Something had to give.

I hear my everloving favourite "you feel you have proven there are not consensual solutions" which is very much related to my other favourite "I'm sorry you feel that way". both of them are invalidating. I'm not a fool. I know the situations I was in, there were no CL solutions.

You cannot prove there ARE always consensual solutions but you CAN prove there AREN'T always consensual solutions.

If one situation, just once, has no consensual solution then the statement is false.

That's the way hypotheses become theories become facts. It's the way science works. It's one thing to hold dear to a belief in the absence of evidence to the contrary, but quite another to deny evidence to hold dear to a belief.

Proving there isn't a consensual solution is actually quite easy. There are always consensual solutions.... until there isn't one. Following? Not to mention, absolutes are not something people other than the piously religious usually bang on with. I actually find it incongruent that one of my favorite anti-establishment heros, Pat, buys into such absolutes. And there are many of them, look at that list I quoted! That's a lot of "always" and "never" in there. That's a lot of belief, verging on law.

You can't expect to make absolute statements and not back that up, surely. I mean, just saying *always* backs one into a corner that really is nothing short of fascinating to watch someone try to defend.

So now it appears the tables have turned; I am to believe that yes, sometimes there are no consensual solutions but what we actually mean is, in future you can avoid such situations. Is this right? That's what I'm hearing in the recent posts. Because life is mostly unplanned, esp as a parent. I find myself in more unplanned situations than planned, and I was lead to believe that there are always consensual solutions... but, now there's not? There is the potential for always finding consensual solutions but in reality, we may find ourselves in situations where we are ill prepared and there are no consensual solutions in that moment, so let's look at how we could have prepared for that scenario?

Because if that's what you're saying, that's what I've been saying for hundreds of posts. And if it is what you're saying, then perhaps consider wiping that redundant statement from the CL repertoire, to save these kind of misunderstandings. It isn't necessary to feel we always should or could find a consensus. It just isn't necessary.
post #926 of 1044
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pat
Exactly! "What is cup?"
I must say, YOU RULE!!



post #927 of 1044
As you said earlier in this thread, there are many parenting styles that are similar to CL. So people can still benefit from consensual solutions without choosing to be a consensual family. There is no need to change what CL means to the majority of CL families for the benefit of non-CL families to feel like they can call themselves CL too. They can be something else, one of these similar things you talk about. Really, we all ust parent the way we feel best. The label is not important. CL as described on the website describes what CL means to most CL families - they are the ones who didnt fit into one of those similar philosophies you mentioned, so they used this title. The point when we are parents is to do what is right for our family. It's nice if there is a "name" for it, but its not necessary. As with any website or book you can take what you think works and leaves the rest. I don't see a need to turn it into something else so more people can "benefit" they can still choose to benefit in the way you suggest it be changed, without it being changed. I'm probably not explaining this well on little sleep lol For some reason its the most simplest concepts I seem to have a hard time explaining. go figure huh lol
post #928 of 1044
there are always consensual solutions. If you don't use them at the time though, then all you have are solutions for the future , that is true, but that does not mean at the time there were no consensual solutions. It doesn't mean no one ever "misses" but that those solutions are always there.
post #929 of 1044
Quote:
Originally Posted by Calm View Post
It's one thing to hold dear to a belief in the absence of evidence to the contrary, but quite another to deny evidence to hold dear to a belief.

Proving there isn't a consensual solution is actually quite easy. There are always consensual solutions.... until there isn't one. Following? .
But they believe there is one. They believe that the possibities are infinite--literally infinite--so you can not possibly have tried or examined every possible solution. Any tiny or huge change in the situation could reveal a consensual solution, if the parties have the commitment to seek it. This is where the faith comes it.

When they fall short (fail to find the consensual solution), they attribute that inwardly rather than outwardly.
post #930 of 1044
I wouldn't say "they" since everyone practices CL in their own way and has their own beliefs, but speaking for myself right now, when I "fall short" so to speak, I find its more helpful to say "what did I miss" then "oh, there was nothing I could have done". Not to be confused with blaming myself - perhaps this is where it gets murky for some people because they see themselves as failing or screwing up or something. I don't think poorly of myself. At the same time I don't see myself as helpless. I just say "what else can I do" instead of "oh it as impossible" I find *for me* I can grow and learn more as a person if I am always looking for more solutions instead of just passing everything off as an impossible situation. That, for me, is how the idea infinite solutions plays out.
post #931 of 1044
Thread Starter 
Quote:
there are always consensual solutions. If you don't use them at the time though, then all you have are solutions for the future , that is true, but that does not mean at the time there were no consensual solutions.
This is true for your life. Not mine. Not Jane Doe's. Not anyone else's but your life. You cannot say what is true or not true for my life, why do you continue to do that? CL keeps insisting that what is true for some is true for all – based on what? Assumption - Because it is true for you it therefore must be true for others? Or is it faith - You hope it is always true, and when it isn't it is because you didn't look hard enough?

You say that those of us who had no consensual solutions actually did, but we “didn't use them at the time”. You were not there. How do you know that we had consensual solutions we overlooked? When my son keeps going for the road, these are my options:

sit in the car instead of wait outside the restaurant;

let him go onto the road;

take him for a walk;

Do a Macgyver and fashion a sling out of my own pants or weave magic with blade of grass, piece of gum and a hairclip;

Stand there acting the clown and hope to keep his attention for the longer-than-banked-on time for the food to cook;

Sell him to the nearest bidder;

keep pulling him back from the road in a fun and toddler friendly fashion.

Yes. Deceiving isn't it? Such a long list, how could I say I have no options? Here's why:

sit in the car instead of wait outside the restaurant: I went to the car when he first got too heavy to hold, and he kept shaking at the door handle in between tears of complaint. That lasted a few minutes before I resigned myself to the fact that it was not consensual (he wasn't happy).

let him go onto the road: sometimes I did. But for obvious reasons, I couldn't let him stay on the road for long. It wasn't a busy road, but it also wasn't a quiet one. Not consensual because he didn't like me deciding when he couldn't go on it, he didn't like me thwarting his self determination.

take him for a walk: the design of the area is such that roads are everywhere. Although I tried this, I was in the same situation, only in motion. Not consensual.

Do a Macgyver and fashion a sling out of my own pants or weave magic with blade of grass, piece of gum and a hairclip
: I didn't have a piece of gum, and the pants I was wearing were capri – too short to wrap around me. Although I have done this. The other problem is, he has started kicking to get out of the sling, so this is no longer the cure all it used to be.

Stand there acting the clown and hope to keep his attention for the longer-than-banked-on time for the food to cook: I did that most of the time. I always try to keep him engaged or content (which isn't always fair to my daughter) but when he wants something, he isn't interested. I get him to pat stray dogs (that owners say are safe) we inspect new and interesting objects, even an interesting wall. Sometimes this works. This wasn't one of those times.

Sell him to the nearest bidder: there were no bidders.

keep pulling him back from the road in a fun and toddler friendly fashion: this turned out to be the only solution we could stick with and it was not consensual. As I mentioned in the problem post itself.

In future, and in the past, it has not been an issue, either because his mood was different or because I had more preparation. The variable – his mood – is the biggest obstacle in finding consensual solutions, but not the only obstacle.

I'm sure that for you, your kid would have been happily zoomed away from the road, and as Pat often uses that suggestion, it must be a cure all for most people. I'm sure your kid, or the average CL kid would have been distracted. Maybe you would have brought your sling. Maybe the average CL parent doesn't even get take out cos they are cooking up a healthy storm in the kitchen 7 nights a week. Maybe a CL mother would trust her child so fiercely they let them go on the road and the baby only goes on it when it is safe. Whatever makes this situation have endless consensual solutions for you, that's great. But for me, there were none. Same situations, different results. We allow different limits (eg, I won't allow my son to go on the road, some might), we have different resources, different kids... that all factors into it.

It's not about a label, it's about false advertising. And just in this one scenario (and there are SO many others) there are "must nots" (must not go on the road when a car is coming) there are no consensual solutions, some didn't get what they wanted, there is thwarted self determination due to no other options that keep him safe, and there are a bunch of other laws "broken". I'm sure to satisfy yourself you will say that you're sure there were options I just overlooked, TONS of them, INFINITE options that in that moment would have kept all three of us happy and getting all we want.

I see people get completely invalidated by CL. Some of them are even in the CL group's pdf of examples. Yet they are totally invalidated and no one picked up on it! One is the example of the woman in the car park who's child has the car keys and won't give them back and it is 100 degrees out and the car is cooking. She tries things but she needs them NOW, it is too hot and she is getting fuzzy. So she has to take them from the child. The CL suggestions were all these things to do in future (park in the shade, take a second set of keys... ) there was ONE option suggested for the actual situation and it was to walk to the shade until the child relinquished the keys of their own volition. She explained that it was a ten minute walk to the nearest shade across a hot carpark! That was the end of the suggestions, and the example. And that's supposed to be a prime example of a consensual solution??

That's what makes no sense with all this. People end up shaking their head and moving on with a "whatev" in their mind and all us CLers think we've had another stroke of brilliance. I'm saying we're just invalidating people and fooling ourselves as these people are screaming they have no consensual options at that moment and CL keeps insisting they do, even though they can't find them either, and turn their back on her questions when the going gets too tough.
post #932 of 1044
I'm sorry you are so frustrated. Please do not take what I say to mean all CLers. I only speak for myself. I am sorry if that was unclear do to me not restating that in every paragraph but I felt I had said it enough times that it could be understood that that is the direction I am coming from. I do only speak for myself and what CL means to me. I acknowledge these possibilities for me. I also feel that others can have the same possibilities. I also respect that some people feel/know they don't have those same possibilties.
post #933 of 1044
I forgot that I was subscribed to this thread and happened to come upon Calm's post. And yes, Calm, you are absolutely right. As a parent that is trying to be more CL, there are DEFINITELY situations hwere there is just NOT a CL option. That sort of drives me crazy, too. I think it's the use of the word "always." Saying "always" and "never" usually isn't very productive (and you said as much a few posts ago...).

Anyway, I just wanted you to know that you are not the only one who has noticed this.

If someone says, "you know, usually we find a CL solution, and we try to plan ahead, and it works really well in our family, etc etc..." and acknowledged that once in a blue moon there may be that time that there just isn't a CL solution...it would be a lot more real.

But yeah, the more I think about it, it is the use of "always" and "never" is what makes me realize that it just isn't the case.
post #934 of 1044
Thread Starter 
Quote:
I find *for me* I can grow and learn more as a person if I am always looking for more solutions instead of just passing everything off as an impossible situation. That, for me, is how the idea infinite solutions plays out.
This is how it is for me too. "Never give up". I liken it to the "give an inch and they'll take a mile" thing, where I will suggest to "never" do something even if there are rare occasions to do it, so the person really thinks twice before doing it.

For me personally though, I don't need to be told that, I figure it out myself; I don't like laws or absolutes that limit me. I still will not give up looking for consensual solutions just because I know the statement is false. And I'm very experimental and creative so I *usually* find consensual solutions. I prefer everyone getting what they want over just consensus, and don't we all? But again, I settle for what is the best workable solution in real life situations with what I have at the time. Consensus will do. Compromise will do. Negotiation will do. But of course, I reach higher than that initially. If I only reach for the tree tops I'll never reach the stars, as they say.

Who else would take off their pants in public to reach a mutually agreeable solution, I ask?

Thanks SGM. I do get lost in these discussions and become unsure who we're speaking for .

Karina, will you marry me?
post #935 of 1044
Your post reminded me. I read something on the give an inch take a mile thing I forget where, but they said generally this is true of children who are rarely given inches in life. I don't give an inch. They already have miles Basically, they try to get everything they can while they see the rare opportunity to do so - or even if not a rare opportunity, just having past experience that its "going to run out". My children trust with me they are safe, and that seems to be all they need to know. If they want to have an experience they can have it. No need to take a mile they already have. No need to give them an inch when they have the world.

Calm it is perfectly acceptable for you to feel and think the way you feel on the subject. We don't all have to agree. The truth looks and is different to all of us. I don't feel there is any need to prove or disprove anything. You are right, to you. I am right, to me. There is no "see there I proved it" coming from this end I assure you, nor do I think that means I have "failed" to prove anything - only that "proving it" is irrelevant *to me*. I don't need that. There is nothing wrong if a person does need that though, I'm just saying *I* don't. I believe what you say is your truth and do not dispute that fact.
post #936 of 1044
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Your post reminded me. I read something on the give an inch take a mile thing I forget where, but they said generally this is true of children who are rarely given inches in life. I don't give an inch. They already have miles
I'm not sure if you were referring to what I said, but I wasn't talking about children, I was talking about adults. I was referrring to adults not giving inches in case we take a mile (eg saying "always" when it really isn't true). There is nothing in inches here, a CL parent really can't do strict at the same time. I mean, I only just got out of the back seat of my car, for God's sake, and with my pants on.

There are some things that giving unlimited choice about backfire on the child, in the short and long run. There is a good and bad side to any parenting choice, as your children grow, you will see this yourself. That is the only way you will know what I mean by that, it is too hard to articulate.

Quote:
Calm it is perfectly acceptable for you to feel and think the way you feel on the subject. We don't all have to agree. The truth looks and is different to all of us. I don't feel there is any need to prove or disprove anything. You are right, to you. I am right, to me. There is no "see there I proved it" coming from this end I assure you, nor do I think that means I have "failed" to prove anything - only that "proving it" is irrelevant *to me*. I don't need that. There is nothing wrong if a person does need that though, I'm just saying *I* don't. I believe what you say is your truth and do not dispute that fact.
oookay.

If you mean that it is true that there were no consensual solutions for me, but there have always been consensual solutions for you, then yes. But because I know there is no way you can bend to that for some reason, I shall bow out of this. There are other subjects on this thread should I get back to them at some stage.
post #937 of 1044
Calm if it is any comfort to you i simply don't believe people who say they are "always" CL. I think they are not necessarily lying to ME, but to themselves. I am aquainted with several families who say they are completely CL and there are always solutions and i have seen all of them impose thei will on their kids and then later dismiss/deny that it happened. And i also think some of the "CL" methods are not CL at all. For example "zooming" a child away from where they were going. They might laugh, they might go again to be "zoomed" again, but it isn't CL. You (the general "you" not any particular "you" on this thread) are thwarting their will, EVEN if you do it in an entertaining and fun way, you are stopping them from doing what they want to do. You can make it ok in your head by saying it's a game, or they don't mind/enjoy it, but it changes nothing about the basics - they wanted to go somewhere and you stopped them. You imposed your will on theirs. How can they "agree" to this in advance? How do you know they feel it is an ok solution? Because they laugh? I find that incredibly sinister - making them go along with your impositon of will rather than giving them the chance to object seems worse to me somehow. It seems very manipulative to me in action (from watching it i mean) - the talking seems to be spin to persuade the child that not only is this next thing happening, but they, the child, are actually happy about it.

Me personally, i don't aim to be CL or kid myself that life can be. Nature gave me a helpless newborn with the ability to need but not meet its needs. I meet its needs, and in doing so i accept that sometimes i'm going to have to thwart its will to do so.
post #938 of 1044
Quote:
For example "zooming" a child away from where they were going. They might laugh, they might go again to be "zoomed" again, but it isn't CL. You (the general "you" not any particular "you" on this thread) are thwarting their will, EVEN if you do it in an entertaining and fun way, you are stopping them from doing what they want to do. You can make it ok in your head by saying it's a game, or they don't mind/enjoy it, but it changes nothing about the basics - they wanted to go somewhere and you stopped them. You imposed your will on theirs. How can they "agree" to this in advance? How do you know they feel it is an ok solution? Because they laugh? I find that incredibly sinister - making them go along with your impositon of will rather than giving them the chance to object seems worse to me somehow. It seems very manipulative to me in action (from watching it i mean) - the talking seems to be spin to persuade the child that not only is this next thing happening, but they, the child, are actually happy about it.
EXACTLY.

MOST parents do this kind of playful toddler redirection---it's fun and it works and I have no problem with it. But it is certainly not consensual. (Which I also have no problem with.)
post #939 of 1044
Quote:
Originally Posted by Calm View Post
I'm not sure if you were referring to what I said, but I wasn't talking about children, I was talking about adults. I was referrring to adults not giving inches in case we take a mile (eg saying "always" when it really isn't true). There is nothing in inches here, a CL parent really can't do strict at the same time. I mean, I only just got out of the back seat of my car, for God's sake, and with my pants on.

There are some things that giving unlimited choice about backfire on the child, in the short and long run. There is a good and bad side to any parenting choice, as your children grow, you will see this yourself. That is the only way you will know what I mean by that, it is too hard to articulate.

oookay.

If you mean that it is true that there were no consensual solutions for me, but there have always been consensual solutions for you, then yes. But because I know there is no way you can bend to that for some reason, I shall bow out of this. There are other subjects on this thread should I get back to them at some stage.
I feel my post was misunderstood. I was not debating what you said on the inch/mile thing, it just reminded me o a nifty thing I had read recently. That you don't need to give inches or worry about children taking miles unless they are only used to getting occasional inches (the quote was much more elegant then I'm apparently able to word it lol)

I was not suggesting being strict with the child or giving inches. I was suggesting that our children have always had miles (upon miles endless infinite miles) BUT it's not like they USE it all. They don't need to keep "checking" to find at which point we are going to say "no, I DO own you" (not in those words) They are likely to think - eh, I'm sure we'd find a way for me to do that if I wanted, and sometimes just knowing that is enough.

Example:
Give and Inch Take a Mile:
Child begs to take dance classes.
You can take dance classes.
Can I take gymnastics too?
I give an inch and you take a mile!

versus the child who hasn't been limited to inches in life:
Child has a history of knowing if they want to do something a solution can be reached. They might join a dance class co cop, or learn to dance from videos if they can't afford classes. The child has a history of needs/desires being met - so they might not know how - but they know a solution will be found and don't need to test the limits because there are none.
I want to take dance classes.
You can take dance classes.
Thanks Mom.


NOT saying the same thing can't be achieved in that situation otherwise, but its just an example of something that could turn into a inch/mile situation. This isn't a concern for the child who doesn't feel the need to "get things while they can"

It's much like attachment parenting in that sense. The child who is left to cry becomes more clingy/needy because they want to get that attention before its gone. They are afraid its going to run out, and when it does they are desperate to get it back to know its not gone for good (even though it comes back, children don't understand that in the same way which is the same reason for seperation anxiety). Where as the attached baby knows mama is there. So they go about their way, stop in for quick refills, and then continue on again. There is not feeling of "get it while I can because time is running short"

For me, CL is just a natural extension of attachment parenting the infant. I only wish I had embraced it sooner, as I was too fearful to do so that I would ruin my child somehow. This was always the right path for my family, but I had a lot of the same concerns. However for me it was different because my concerns were more about what others would think, which is not what I think is the reason for other people here's concerns at all. I definitely don't project my previous shortcomings onto anyone here and do trust everyone is doing what is right for them.

As I said earlier the truth can look different to all of us and still be true.

If we stand Me, One, You. Then if I say "One is to the left" and you say "One is to the right" we are both stating what is true to us. My truth is that my circumstance would not change my heart. If I have 3 more children, or 3 different children, or end up in another country or state, or lose a love one, or my "situation" somehow changed to much different then my situation now, I know that would not change my heart and that CL would still be possible and that infinite solutions would still be available to me. This is what is true to me.

I understand about children growing. I've watch 3 of my own do it all the time, they I have to say I have it the hardest the first time around because my oldest has special needs. He has made my other 2 seem easy even though they are highly sensitive and high needs.

I mean that what you say is the truth as you see it and what I say is the truth as I see it. I'm not going to argue with you, and I have no desire to prove a point here.

__________________________________________________ ___________

A child who is zoomed away in a fit of giggles because they (obviously) agree that being zoomed a way is a good alternative is involved in a consensual solution. It only wouldnt be consensual if they DIDNT want to be zoomed away. Zooming a child away is not the only thing CL families do, some families may not do it at all I dont know - and it is not exclusive to CL, many families use playful parenting techniques with their children. Just because some CL solutions are solutions other types of parenting use doesn't mean its the same.

My experience is not that "everything good about CL is stuff used in other parenting methods and everything exclusive to CL beliefs is bad" if that is the truth to some people here thats ok. It's not true to me.
post #940 of 1044
Quote:
Originally Posted by Super Glue Mommy View Post
The child has a history of needs/desires being met - so they might not know how - but they know a solution will be found and don't need to test the limits because there are none..
No limits? Not even personal ones?

Most of our limits (the ones that get expressly discussed) are personal ones ("Please give me some privacy to get dressed." "Please give me some privacy to use the bathroom." etc.), or safety ("You must wear your helmet on your motorcycle". "You must use a carseat". etc).

Some of our limits are financial. We don't discuss them often, but the limit would likely come up in your example. ("It would be fun to take classes there, but it costs $150/mo. How else can you learn to dance?").

I find the idea of no limits disingenuous. But, like I said above, I understand it is mostly about perspective and focus. To use a political word, its about spin. Maybe the spin helps some people to accept limits and find alternatives. For me and my dc, a straightforward approach seems to be more readily accepted.
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