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No Spanking - Page 2

post #21 of 76
Hands are not for hitting.

How can I expect my children not to hit to get their way when I hit them to get my way? It's called responsible modeling, and I have to be able to show my children a better way to deal with anger/disappointment/other emotions than through physical violence.
post #22 of 76
I would say that I don't think spanking is right just because society does. It wasn't to long ago that society thought that it was a man's right to beat his wife and that no one should interfere with that right. Kids are smaller than women are and are less able to escape the abusers who birthed them because of that. If kids were able to escape and push for change in a way that was respected like women did people would not still be hitting them. They would view hitting small people as something that is just as immoral as hitting a wife.
post #23 of 76
So I have a few questions as well.. I have a 2 1/2 year old boy.. He's very intelligent. VERY strong willed. I ALWAYS try to bend down and maintain eye contact to explain to him what he's doing is wrong.. then try to give him other options. YET.. sometimes he DOES NOT CARE. I've tried time out.. and he will scream for hours on end. I'm very consistent.. yet so is HE! LOL
i was raised with spanking. I do NOT condone abuse.. EVER.. but I want to know reasons as to why a gentle swat on the butt is counterproductive. I had the previous notion that when a child is that young.. sometimes it's hard for them to get the idea that something could be dangerous(one of our battles is him wanting to open the living room door.. he can unlock the deadbolt). That is a VERY VERY serious situation.. and he does not understand the danger no matter how much I explain why it's wrong.. I do not think he fully grasps the concept. My mother says that if a child is repeating a behavior that could get them hurt.. then spanking on the bottom is acceptable. That way the child really realizes it's a BIG deal. I don't know what to think about all of it right now..I know I MUST protect my child.. and I want him to be well behaved(which for the most part he's an angel compared to all my friend's children that don't discipline )... So any alternatives? Methods that work?
post #24 of 76
bebebradford - a 2 1/2 year old can't be expected to keep himself safe. You can either install one of those locks they put at the top of doors to make it impossible for your son to open the door, or you can make sure that he never has the opportunity to open the door himself. Spanking him will not necessarily prevent him from opening the door, and I would never expect him to have that impulse control at his age. It isn't really age appropriate. If you show him your fear in your voice when he opens the door, he will grasp the seriousness better than if you give him the confusing and unrelated punishment of hitting him, but I still wouldn't put the responsibility of controlling his impulses on such a young child. You need to be the one to keep him safe.
post #25 of 76
Right- he is 2.5, the impulse control is not there and it is your responsibility to keep him safe by installing another kind of lock or whatever. You hitting him might "work" in a Pavlovian way (I open the door and I get hit. That hurts, so I won't open the door... probably), but it is not only a painful and damaging way to learn, it is not really effective in the long run (when does it end?). You can manage a lot of childrens behaviors by working on fear and pain, but it doesn't help them grow, it doesn't help your relationship, and it doesn't work in the long run.

If something is dangerous for our children, it is OUR job to make their environment safe. At some point, they learn these dangers and then we pass on that responsibility to them as they learn about them. It is a natural process. At 2.5, I had the house on virtual lock-down. No small toys for the mouth, slips on the door knobs, locks on the cabinets... Now ds1 is 4. He knows the danger of going outside without me and so we took the baby lock off the door, for example. He has toys with little tiny pieces. Your son WILL understand the dangers as he gets older, and so for now making his environment safe is YOUR job, not his.

And yes, many toddlers have strong wills. But think about it: Do you really want your position in life to be your will dominating his? You talk proudly of your own strong will (which I also think can be a very good thing). I would think the goal is to work with him in encouraging personal strength, not to crush it. It can be frustrating, but really effective and positive discipline is about learning the lesson at the right time, not about following orders.

Stepping back from our parents and deciding to parent differently can be very hard on both the adult child and her parents. The parent can feel that their child is saying they did not do a good job raising them, the adult child can feel like "well, I turned out OK but something still bothers me about this and the idea that it was wrong is upsetting because now I have to rethink this whole thing".

"A swat on the butt" is still hitting to hurt and using that fear and pain to control. There are other ways.
post #26 of 76
It just felt wrong. I can't imagine my husband backhanding me every time I do something to make him mad. I couldn't imagine backhanding him every time he makes me mad... so, how would it be O.K to spank a child.

I learned early on to do ONLY what feels right, and not worry about what others do.

My child is 16, she's never been spanked, never needed a spanking, has always made good decisions, has always been open with me, and I haven't ever wished I was a little harder on her as a child.
post #27 of 76
I don't spank my kids because in my heart it does not feel right to do. Hitting a child only teaches them that hitting someone to resolve conflict or as punishment is okay. Hitting in any form is not okay.
post #28 of 76
regarding strong willed children....
As parents we have the choice to set up a battle of the wills or to negotiate peacefully. Think of how you'd want a boss to relate to you at work for example...

This statement will work in almost any situation with a toddler to avoid a battle of the wills....

Ds, can you come to mommy all by yourself or do you need me to come and pick you up?

Ds can you get down off that counter all by yourself or do you need me to carry you down?

Can you use your gentle voice all by yourself or do you need help? (then I place my hand gently but firmly over dd's mouth if she needs help - to muffle her voice. She was great with it at first, but then it quickly lost it's "fun" appeal and so she got tired of screeching.

Anywya, then you are appealing to his growing sense of independence instead of trying to squelch it.

Id' also recommend The No Cry DIscipline Solution book for other great ideas.
post #29 of 76
Maybe someone mentioned this (I only got about half way down the thread) but in my experience, spanking doesn't teach kids not to do something, it teaches them not to get CAUGHT. Wow, do we want to encourage that kind of sneaking around and dishonesty?

Wouldn't it be smarter of us to teach them WHY not to do something - not that they might get hit, but that there's a real reason behind why we're asking them not to do it. Of course, this only works if you're asking reasonable things of your children and not enforcing arbitrary rules...
post #30 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by Juvysen View Post
Maybe someone mentioned this (I only got about half way down the thread) but in my experience, spanking doesn't teach kids not to do something, it teaches them not to get CAUGHT. Wow, do we want to encourage that kind of sneaking around and dishonesty?

Wouldn't it be smarter of us to teach them WHY not to do something - not that they might get hit, but that there's a real reason behind why we're asking them not to do it. Of course, this only works if you're asking reasonable things of your children and not enforcing arbitrary rules...



First, I want to thank everyone for the advice! I know parenting isn't cut and dry.. and all kids are different. I did get a deadbolt up high for the door.. but he can stand on his little chair and open it. My house is set up with baby gates everywhere. The door he is trying to open is in the living room. I have my outlets covered.. breakables in the other room .. etc. I don't EVER leave him alone for long periods of time.. but sometimes when my daughter wakes up, etc.. I have to leave the room for a moment(or grab a load of laundry, etc). I try to make him not feel as though he's a prisoner.. but I don't let him have full run of the house. Tonight, though, I'm going to see if there's anyway we can install one of those chain latches at the top of the door.. My husband previously thought it wouldn't work with the way our door frame is.. but maybe I can come up with some sort of barrier!

In response to the above quote.. you make a great point! I DO want to teach him not to do it.. in case he is with my parents.. a friends.. etc. although their house is babyproof.. you never know. I don't however know if he can be TAUGHT not to do it completely. Like mentioned by others.. I agree that a young toddler's impulses are very strong. Believe me, I've explained countless times to him.. that it's a no no, and that he could be very hurt.. then mommy would be very sad. He just say " okay mommy.. exactly" Keep in mind.. everytime I say something that semi agrees with him.. he says "Okay, exactly." LOL.. but usually a few hours later he's forgotten about it. I AM going to keep at it though.. and make it even harder to open that door.

Thanks you guys!
post #31 of 76
As far as spanking kids for safety, so they won't run out in the street or some such thing. If you spanked your child, would you then be comfortable with them standing right by the street without being close by? No, of course not. You'd still have to wait until they were older to trust them near the street. So why not just keep track of them by the street? That is an issue of supervision, not discipline. You won't be able to trust a two-year-old near a street no matter how many times you hit him. So just don't hit him and be more careful to watch him near the street.
post #32 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by mamazee View Post
As far as spanking kids for safety, so they won't run out in the street or some such thing. If you spanked your child, would you then be comfortable with them standing right by the street without being close by? No, of course not. You'd still have to wait until they were older to trust them near the street. So why not just keep track of them by the street? That is an issue of supervision, not discipline. You won't be able to trust a two-year-old near a street no matter how many times you hit him. So just don't hit him and be more careful to watch him near the street.

Well, I wouldn't ever let my child stand beside a street. I was concerned about him getting out of bed in the middle of the night, etc and opening the door.. there's a street in front of my house. He has a baby gate for his room.. but I know he could climb over it if he really wanted to. I'm going to find another barrier for that door though!
post #33 of 76
I don't mean you specifically - in general. My parents said that I might not want to spank but I'd HAVE to do it for that reason. I'd HAVE to or I'd be neglectful. And it's just completely illogical. Spanking a toddler isn't going to make it safe for the toddler around the street anyway. It does nothing for safety.
post #34 of 76
Oh wait - didn't finish.

BUT yes, for all safety issues involving toddlers, IMO it is an issue of parenting and supervision and not an issue of discipline. Toddlers are walking babies. They can't be trusted to keep themselves safe in any situation, no matter whether they're spanked or not, so why spank them?
post #35 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by mamazee View Post
Oh wait - didn't finish.

BUT yes, for all safety issues involving toddlers, IMO it is an issue of parenting and supervision and not an issue of discipline. Toddlers are walking babies. They can't be trusted to keep themselves safe in any situation, no matter whether they're spanked or not, so why spank them?

Good point.. thank you.
post #36 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by bebebradford View Post
I DO want to teach him not to do it.. in case he is with my parents.. a friends.. etc. although their house is babyproof.. you never know. I don't however know if he can be TAUGHT not to do it completely.
But he might not equate your door (and the spanking) with other doors. He might learn to (or be trained to) NOT open your door, but it doesn't mean he knows about ALL doors.

And yes, he eventually will be able to be taught that, but until then, its babyproof. Spanking won't change the rate he will learn and it won't really make him safer because it doesn't make him wiser...
post #37 of 76
Because I remember the pure hatred and rage I felt towards my parents (they never knew). I also remember the humiliation and often the feeling that if they would just listen I could explain why I did whatever I did (it was often a misunderstanding because they only saw things through adult eyes).
post #38 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by bebebradford View Post
So I have a few questions as well.. I have a 2 1/2 year old boy.. He's very intelligent. VERY strong willed. I ALWAYS try to bend down and maintain eye contact to explain to him what he's doing is wrong.. then try to give him other options. YET.. sometimes he DOES NOT CARE. I've tried time out.. and he will scream for hours on end. I'm very consistent.. yet so is HE! LOL
i was raised with spanking. I do NOT condone abuse.. EVER.. but I want to know reasons as to why a gentle swat on the butt is counterproductive. I had the previous notion that when a child is that young.. sometimes it's hard for them to get the idea that something could be dangerous(one of our battles is him wanting to open the living room door.. he can unlock the deadbolt). That is a VERY VERY serious situation.. and he does not understand the danger no matter how much I explain why it's wrong.. I do not think he fully grasps the concept. My mother says that if a child is repeating a behavior that could get them hurt.. then spanking on the bottom is acceptable. That way the child really realizes it's a BIG deal. I don't know what to think about all of it right now..I know I MUST protect my child.. and I want him to be well behaved(which for the most part he's an angel compared to all my friend's children that don't discipline )... So any alternatives? Methods that work?
I would think that spanking might even make him LESS safe because he might not open the door for fear of being hit...until you aren't watching. Spanking tends to encourage sneakiness, not obedience. Install a better lock.
post #39 of 76
well, first because it's not discipline, it's punishment. it doesn't teach anything, it only shames.

the major reason i don't spank, though, is that i think children are people, worthy of the same rights to physical dignity that i have.

i have a right not to be assaulted, so shouldn't she? i don't hit DH and he doesn't hit me, so why would it be acceptable to hit her? i just don't get it.
post #40 of 76
My most important reason for not spanking is that I feel very strongly that it's wrong to hit another human being unless said person is threatening a life and children are humans.
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