No Spanking - Page 3

[EdnaMarie]

It is always wrong to hit other people and living things. Physical violence is always wrong.

I wasn't spanked and that is pretty much why I don't!

[Greenmama2AJ]

Spanking is a weaker discipline method. Its not that is doesn't work. It can. For a short time but just because hitting a small child makes them compliant doesn't mean you should use that method as a strategy.

Spanking is a short term way of dealing with behaviour and it uses a parents physical dominance to scare a child into behaving.

There are many ways to deal with child behaviour without spanking.
If you need to use spanking to control your child, you need to research some more strategies and tools to help you in challenging situations.

To say that hitting someone is the only way you can discipline a strong willed person is ridiculous. How do you think people control and discilpine highschool students or jail in mates? They dont go around giving them light taps on the bum *rolls eyes* and, despite what you might think, they dont use fear either.

Using fear as a punishment method causes resentment and future violence. It quickly spirals out of control.

Think of your favourite highschool teacher?
Was the classroom out of control? Did they threaten the students with violence, punishment and fear? No?
Then why parent that way?
If a teacher can control 30 students, we can find ways to gain respect and control of our own children - and we can do it without resorting to hitting, screaming at or scaring them.

[CrunchyMamaToBe]

Here's what I saw at a playgroup + playground yesterday:

Toddler (age 20ish months) at playgroup is a smack & grabber. Not just snatch and grab the thing he wants from another child, but hits the unsuspecting child who has the thing he wants and snatches the desired object. Mother intervenes in calm tones. Speaking a language I don't understand very well, but something along the lines of "You don't hit. Play nice." The toddler persists in hitting, even coming up behind a child on a ride-on toy and boxing her ears because he wants the ride-on. Poor girl didn't know what hit her. Literally.

Later, we see this same toddler + mother duo at the playground. Hitting other children got repeated "No hitting. Play nicely." in calm tones from the mother. But taking his shoes and socks off outdoors? "NO!" Smack! "DO NOT TAKE OFF YOUR SHOES!"

Poor kid was hit for a minor (in my opinion) transgression, so it seems little surprise to me that he thinks it's OK to hit others.

I was spanked occasionally as a child. My mother and I have a good relationship now and she would probably be very embarrassed that I remember this, but the two instances that I remember most clearly were spankings in anger after inflicting minor damage on household objects that my mother had just cleaned/installed. I can understand being at the end of your rope looking after small kids and trying to keep things ordered. But this gave me the message that things were more important than people and that hitting when angry was OK. Retrospectively, it's no wonder I tended to beat up on my sister when I was angry with her.

Hitting children teaches them that it's OK to use violence to solve problems and/or express anger. Absolutely not what I want to teach my child.

[Juvysen]

I remember my mother trying to spank me when I was 16 (yes, SIXTEEN YEARS OLD) over an argument we were having. Of course, by 16 (and as an athlete) I was a bit stronger than her, so it's no surprise that it didn't scare me, I just laughed at her. How horrible it must have been for her to have no other tools in her parenting toolbox at that point. If she had been looking for other ways of solving problems all those years she might have been a pro at it...

[The4OfUs]

Originally Posted by Juvysen

I remember my mother trying to spank me when I was 16 (yes, SIXTEEN YEARS OLD) over an argument we were having. Of course, by 16 (and as an athlete) I was a bit stronger than her, so it's no surprise that it didn't scare me, I just laughed at her. How horrible it must have been for her to have no other tools in her parenting toolbox at that point. If she had been looking for other ways of solving problems all those years she might have been a pro at it...

Word.

[Sasharna]

Originally Posted by Greenmama2AJ

Think of your favourite highschool teacher?
Was the classroom out of control? Did they threaten the students with violence, punishment and fear? No?
Then why parent that way?

This is absolutely brilliant. Thanks for sharing it!

[bebebradford]

Originally Posted by bebebradford

Good point.. thank you.

Originally Posted by Greenmama2AJ

Spanking is a weaker discipline method. Its not that is doesn't work. It can. For a short time but just because hitting a small child makes them compliant doesn't mean you should use that method as a strategy.

Spanking is a short term way of dealing with behaviour and it uses a parents physical dominance to scare a child into behaving.

There are many ways to deal with child behaviour without spanking.
If you need to use spanking to control your child, you need to research some more strategies and tools to help you in challenging situations.

To say that hitting someone is the only way you can discipline a strong willed person is ridiculous. How do you think people control and discilpine highschool students or jail in mates? They dont go around giving them light taps on the bum *rolls eyes* and, despite what you might think, they dont use fear either.

Using fear as a punishment method causes resentment and future violence. It quickly spirals out of control.

Think of your favourite highschool teacher?
Was the classroom out of control? Did they threaten the students with violence, punishment and fear? No?
Then why parent that way?
If a teacher can control 30 students, we can find ways to gain respect and control of our own children - and we can do it without resorting to hitting, screaming at or scaring them.

I agree.. thank you. I hope the roll eyes wasn't negativity towards my questions though..
Now, the highschool things.. and control is ANOTHER topic..I think there is an epidemic of misguided youth. I live in the south.. and yes, teachers paddle here.. they have to get parent's consent.. but even older kids are paddled. I don't think it's the teachers place to do that at all.. but they DO use that here. Teenagers , IMO, are really out of hand. Not all of course.. not even the majority.. but I do see it as a big problem. It's really sad.. I feel like they are being set up to fail in the future.

[bebebradford]

Also, I want to add.. I'm not all FOR spanking.. AT ALL. That's why I came here to find other resources. I think some of you got the idea that I LIKE to spank.. That's not true at all. I was just telling of an instance where I didn't know what to do.. and I did breakdown and spank him. I'm not happy about it AT ALL. You have to understand.. my mother spanked me ALOT.. even up into my older years. Do I have bad feelings about it? Ummm.. some of the spankings I do. At the same time.. I did well in school.. I never disrespected my elders.. My mother told me she could take me anywhere as a toddler and I never ever threw a fit. I respect her for taking care of me.. She was a wonderful mother. Still is.. She kept me safe.. helped me to succeed, and most of all.. was my rock. I would like my children to have the SAME relationship with me.. but if possible.. I would like to find an ALTERNATIVE to spanking. That's why I came in here. Not to have people become sarcastic and talk down to me(which most haven't! ).I wanted ALTERNATIVES AND METHODS instead of everyone saying.. " Don't spank" " Roll Eyes".. etc. I'm trying to be the best mother possible. I put school.. career.. everything on the back burner.. because being a great mom was the most important thing I could ever do. Again, thank you guys for the responses. I think other moms have great advice.. and it's awesome to share.

[chipper26]

The reasoning that teachers don't hit kids but can keep an entire class under control (sort of) has been in the back of my mind and I'm glad it was brought up in this thread. I am a teacher, and I have a huge bag of tricks for keeping students engaged and "in control." Being positive, proactive and setting clear boundaries and expectations are hugh contributors to a successful classroom. Also understanding what is developmentally appropriate helps keep the expectations reasonable. If it works at school (usually works,) then it should work at home. We also try to use positive reinforcement and specific praise.

[bebebradford]

Originally Posted by chipper26

The reasoning that teachers don't hit kids but can keep an entire class under control (sort of) has been in the back of my mind and I'm glad it was brought up in this thread. I am a teacher, and I have a huge bag of tricks for keeping students engaged and "in control." Being positive, proactive and setting clear boundaries and expectations are hugh contributors to a successful classroom. Also understanding what is developmentally appropriate helps keep the expectations reasonable. If it works at school (usually works,) then it should work at home. We also try to use positive reinforcement and specific praise.

That's awesome! Hopefully you are reaching out to children on their path to success! I really support teachers, and anyone in the education field. It's a hard job, and there's not a lot of glitz and fame in association with it. Yet, there should be.. teachers are one of our most valuable assets in America.

[chipper26]

Originally Posted by bebebradford

That's awesome! Hopefully you are reaching out to children on their path to success! I really support teachers, and anyone in the education field. It's a hard job, and there's not a lot of glitz and fame in association with it. Yet, there should be.. teachers are one of our most valuable assets in America.

Thanks! This really is the way you are supposed to teach and they have trainings and meetings to help teachers learn how to manage the classroom and create a positive learning environment. Of course, I have my bad days, but every year you learn a little more.

[caro113]

I didn't read the responses, but here are my top ten reasons:

1: Hitting a child is abusive.

2: "You can't hit people! So to teach you not to hit, I am going to hit you" ... can you spot what's wrong with that statement?

3: Parenting is not about being revengeful. Hitting is a parent's (or caregiver's) way of getting revenge for something the child did.

4: It sends a confusing message.

5: It is better to be respected than to be feared (and if you can figure out who asked that question, a cookie for you!) But really, think about it. When you were in school or with your parents, did you listen to what they said out of respect or out of fear? Do you really want your children to fear you?

6: Gentle Discipline is very anti-spanking.

7: It can cause a child to have low self-esteem and poor self-image. Also, it can eventually lead to the child developing depressing.

8: Is it okay for a man to beat his wife? Or a woman to beat her husband? How about an adult child beating their aging and (mostly) defenseless parents? ... then how is it okay for a parent to beat their child? (and yes, spanking is beating)

9: Hitting is abusive.

10: Hitting is abusive.

[caro113]

About the teacher thing: yes, they did use fear. They would threaten everyone with detention or with phone calls home or with the principal or dean coming into the room. They did use fear, just not physical fear. But then again, with the phone calls home, that can turn into a physical fear with parents who don't discipline well.

[crunchymomofmany]

I think there is a difference in using fear - and using "fear." I have children who range in ages from 17 (in May) down to 1.5. I don't hit. When my almost 17yo was about 1, I vividly remember him hitting a little girl I was babysitting. I took his hand, slapped it and said "no hitting." It was an impulsive reaction by a first-time mom and I then looked at his crying face (that I caused) and hugged him and thought about what a dummy I was! I haven't hit since. I've been tempted...

But here's the thing, I do use fear, I guess, when I think about it. My children, I think, have a certain amount of fear in disobeying a strict rule (we don't have many, but there a few)...otherwise, they know I'll take things away - fun, tv, iPods (NO, not the iPod), what have you. My teenage daughter is 15. She went to the YMCA and then called me and asked me if she could hang out longer than our scheduled planned time with some friends. I said sure, assuming they were hanging out at the Y. It wasn't until I went to the Y at closing time that I learned she had left and went off somewhere! UGH!! I was freaking! I drove around town for a bit and then, through tears, drove home hoping my husband would no what to do. As I was telling my husband the story and trying to calm down, my daughter came strolling in - her and her friends went to Burger King!

Oh boy did I wig out - but I was crying and really upset and I think that scared my daughter - she didn't think how much her actions affect me, not just as a "mom," but as a person who loves her.

I have no doubt that this won't be the last time something like this happens - but I think showing kids our real actions and the real reasons why things happen is more important than being "the boss." (even though, I like to think I am)

Does that make sense?

[caro113]

Originally Posted by crunchymomofmany

I have no doubt that this won't be the last time something like this happens - but I think showing kids our real actions and the real reasons why things happen is more important than being "the boss." (even though, I like to think I am)

Does that make sense?

That makes perfect sense. I totally understand what you are saying.

But coming from a teenage point of view (as I did this a lot) she never said she was staying at the Y. She simply asked if she could hang out with some friends a bit longer; it's not her fault you didn't ask where :
Really, though this is the same thing as saying "Can I go to Jenny's party?" "Sure. Her parents will be there right" "Jenny's parents would never allow her to have a party without their presence" ... which would explain why Jenny's parents don't know about the party ...
Not that I'm condoning any of that, but it is interesting how teens try to get around all that stuff by just not fully explaining anything.

Anyhow Crunchy, I totally agree with you. I think allowing children to see your true reaction is definitely a great way of teaching them what they did was wrong without installing a physical fear in them. It seems to be a great teaching tool.

[parent coach]

"Each day of our lives we make deposits in the memory banks of our children"
Charles R. Swindoll
Do I want my kids to remember the feel and sound of a big adult hand coming down on them - no way! They will surely have bad times and consequences in their lives to remember - this builds resilience. Spanking however builds resentment, anger and a focus on the spanking rather than the "reason" for it. It's a cop out.
Can you imagine spanking your infant? Why then is it okay to spank an older child?

[crunchymomofmany]

Originally Posted by caro113

But coming from a teenage point of view (as I did this a lot) she never said she was staying at the Y. She simply asked if she could hang out with some friends a bit longer; it's not her fault you didn't ask where :
Really, though this is the same thing as saying "Can I go to Jenny's party?" "Sure. Her parents will be there right" "Jenny's parents would never allow her to have a party without their presence" ... which would explain why Jenny's parents don't know about the party ...

I know! That's what she said! And she is a good kid, who I hope I have raised to be open and honest with me (at least, most of the time, I'm not an idiot about teens anymore - remind sometime to write the book of my oldest, Matt) - so that's why I didn't "punish" her or anything. In fact, I let her go back out with said friends that same evening! But I think it was valuable for both of us in that she could really see how much what she does affects me - and I could certainly see that I need to be more specific, even with my good daughter! I'm ALWAYS specific with the boys now!

It was a HUGE lesson for both of us - I'm just glad that it turned out well and not into some kind of screaming, hitting fit!

As for the younger ones. I think it's hard to be patient all the time - I certainly lose my mind sometimes. There are times when I have to look at my 10 year old (especially when he's doing the "why are you so dumb attitude thing!) and say - "just go away from me right now...I need a minute." And the really little ones, well, there is just no excuse for hitting, I'm sorry. They are just too little and don't understand. The reason you think you're hitting is not ever the reason they believe they are being hit. All they know is that pain comes after...whatever. Or "mommy's mad." Or whatever. It's just heartbreaking to see parents constantly threaten things they won't follow through with (I heard a mom say, "we will never, ever come back to the playground again!" - really? never? I find that hard to believe) or slapping and swatting because they can't think of anything else to do! Use your words Mom and Dad!

[caro113]

Originally Posted by crunchymomofmany

I know! That's what she said!

Thank you. That's the laugh I needed

I remember baby sitting once and the children were being absolutely horrible when it came time to leave the playground and I told them if they didn't start behaving they wouldn't be going back there any time soon with me. I kept to that too. I only intended to not take them there for a week or so, and we had another play ground that was much much closer (I didn't drive so we had to walk) albeit much smaller than the one they really wanted to go to.

Oh, I just thought of this. Do you really have a 15 year old daughter who doesn't have a cell phone? Because that's really a feat. And congrats on that one. (I ask, because if she had one, wouldn't you have just been able to call her cell asking where she was when you were worried? )

[Greenmama2AJ]

I was the one who gave an eyeroll at the idea of "a light tap on the bum" for highschool students.

I just wanted to reassure everyone that it wasn't an eye roll at any posters on this thread

More so, it is an eyeroll at a society that advocates corporal punishment based on the idea that its "just a tap". If paddling in highschools was "just a tap" it would be totally useless on defiant, hormone driven, 15 yr old males - proof that spanking is a method that needs to get more violent to have any effect long term.

Also, I understand the idea that a person needs to have a "fear" of consequences.
But I would argue that spanking requires a fear of the person giving the spanking for it to be effective. Whereas a person could fear losing tv time, IPOD credit, losing some type of choice or even the right to be heard - and they would not need to be physically afraid of the person for it to be an effective consequence.

Crunchymomofmany - "Use your words Mom and Dad!" LOL, I totally agree

[crunchymomofmany]

Originally Posted by caro113

Oh, I just thought of this. Do you really have a 15 year old daughter who doesn't have a cell phone? Because that's really a feat. And congrats on that one. (I ask, because if she had one, wouldn't you have just been able to call her cell asking where she was when you were worried? )

Yes - my daughter does not have a cell phone. We have one cell phone that I hand out to kids on an as needed basis. Like this afternoon my 13yo son has it because he is going to his first track practice and doesn't know when it will be over. When the kids are at the Y, they can use the Y phone if they need to call me - otherwise, we have prearranged pick up times for movies, the Y, friends' houses, etc. It's a pre-paid, no feature phone. I'm a frugal girl!