Sigh ... bottles?

[starling&diesel]

I have done everything to boost my supply ... domperidone, blessed thistle, fenugreek, no pacis or bottles (yet), pumping, block feeding, switch feeding, supplementing with donor milk via SNS ... but the pediatrician wants more. DD is in the third percentile and he wants her to gain more.

He's suggesting a bottle top-up after every feed.

Can I do this without affecting my pathetic supply?

He wants me to stop the SNS as he thinks DD has to work too hard at it, and that it's draining my energy (which it is ...).

So far, DD has not had any artificial nipples whatsoever. This is so sad.

Any wise words from BTDT mamas?

[heinz28]

Are you upset over using a bottle because you fear nipple confusion? Or, are you afraid your babe won't breastfeed any longer?

I've had low supply issues as well but I can pump and give her a bottle of my milk without issue. She still breastfeeds without any problems. Don't stress yourself out more over giving your babe a bottle. It's the best thing for her if your doc thinks she needs to gain weight. My experience is that my babe still loves breastfeeding.

[alegna]

Someone has to be in the 3rd %.

Has she been gaining?

How big were you and dh as babies?

-Angela

[stgertrude]

I've been following your story, which is so similar to mine. I've unfortunately BTDT. I don't have a definitive answer for you, and can very much relate to feeling the SNS was draining. I wasn't a very big fan. However, if your DD is gaining steadily with breastfeeding while using the SNS and you think you'll be ok with continuing to use it, I'd say keep doing that over switching to bottles, because it's the best way to keep your baby associating nursing with comfort and food.

When I decided I'd had it with my low supply, the SNS, and the whole circus surrounding herbs, pumping, etc. (at the time my DD was around 5 months old), I introduced bottles. Within about a month, she started becoming very impatient with nursing since the flow was not as fast and she had to work harder to get milk. She always had a very weak suck (one of the contributing factors to my low supply), and when she'd discovered bottles make it easier, she pretty much decided she didn't want to nurse at all anymore. I was heartbroken. I kept trying for another month or two always offering the breast first but wound up exclusively pumping soon after. My supply dwindled away to nothing by about 8 months, partially because I wasn't very good at pumping and partially because I got lazy with the exhausting routine. I do hear about moms who can successfully use bottles while nursing, but in my case, it was the beginning of the end.

Also, unless your DD is lethargic, not gaining steadily, or showing other signs of malnutrition, I don't agree with your pediatrician's view that she should be gaining weight at a faster rate by stuffing her with more formula. When my DD was slow to gain, I received similar advice which prompted me to find a holistic dr. who was much more understanding of breastfeeding issues.

Best of luck to you whatever you decide.

[AngelaM]

No real advice. I'm just sorry you're going through this.

[kcstar]

The bottle I use is The First Years Breastflow. It has two large nipples, double-stacked, to simulate drinking from the breasts. Product reviews I saw before buying them said that they had helped teach infants how to latch.

If you absolutely have to use a bottle (I was returning to work) and want to avoid nipple confusion, that's the one I chose.

[Daisie125]

Have you tried seeing a chiro? I was just speaking with one at my midwive's birth center who was saying that she has seen improvements in supply when the mother has been properly adjusted, I would call around and see if you can find a chiro who specalises in new moms/babies.

[starling&diesel]

Originally Posted by heinz28

Are you upset over using a bottle because you fear nipple confusion? Or, are you afraid your babe won't breastfeed any longer?

Both, really ... I'm so heartened to hear that your DD was still happy to nurse.
The doc did say that if she started to refuse the breast after a week, to ditch bottles and endure the SNS. I really hope that my DD is like yours, and still happy to nurse. I've worked SO HARD to get my supply to what it is, and I would just be devastated if it dwindled, or I had to pump even more.

[starling&diesel]

Originally Posted by stgertrude

I kept trying for another month or two always offering the breast first but wound up exclusively pumping soon after. My supply dwindled away to nothing by about 8 months, partially because I wasn't very good at pumping and partially because I got lazy with the exhausting routine. I do hear about moms who can successfully use bottles while nursing, but in my case, it was the beginning of the end.

This is what I fear. Thank you for your honest and frank advice. I'm not sure what we'll do yet. I'll keep you posted!

[starling&diesel]

Originally Posted by AngelaM

No real advice. I'm just sorry you're going through this.

Thanks, Angela ... hugs right back at you!

[starling&diesel]

Originally Posted by alegna

Someone has to be in the 3rd %.

Has she been gaining?

How big were you and dh as babies?

-Angela

My thoughts exactly.
However, she is a donor embryo baby, so my size as a babe won't have much bearing and her other mama has no bio connection either.
Yes, she's been gaining ... and it's this thinking that makes me think I might stick it out with the SNS and donor milk as long as I can get it, and formula when I can't. At least then she'd still be at the breast all the time.

[stgertrude]

I didn't mean to scare you with my story, or to be overly negative about bottles. I really think that had I been more careful about how I introduced bottles, and more diligent with pumping and making sure she was always fully nursing first, things would have been different. At that point I was so frustrated with low supply I kind of gave up. I also became really stressed out due to other things (work, family issues, etc.) so I think that impacted my supply too. I really think you can/will have a different outcome as long as you are careful to keep nursing all the time, too!! Good luck and you can do it!

[justKate]

and good luck with your decision. My LO didn't bf until she was more than 3 weeks old, and now prefers the breast to the bottle. Point is, don't worry. She'll still take the breast.

[AislinCarys]

Is she following the 3rd percentile or is she dropping? Did she drop down to the 3rd percentile from the 50th for example?

I'm asking because DD is 3rd percentile, and I've been in your shoes. I had low supply, we used the SNS with donor milk (it is a hassle, and I hated it!). Thing is, DD dropped below the 3rd percentile, and wasn't following any curve, she didn't grow much at all for a while (before we started using donor milk). On the milk she got judt up to the 3rd percentile, and is still there, despite eating loads of foods now and still breastfeeding a ton!

The specialist ped wanted us to use formula and bottles as well - because he felt that would be easier for me. He admitted by then that DD was doing fine. He charted her head circumference and height. HC is what really matters, he told us, so as long as your LO's head is growing, she's fine. Her body will grow at its own pace (assuming your child isn't lethargic, developmentally delayed, dehydrated or not pooing and weeing!).

It was terrifying being in that place, but I am glad now that I didn't give in to all the bottle pushers. DD is just petite. Someone has to be on the 3rd percentile! Remember, the chart is for normal, healthy children, and being big isn't necessarily a good thing!



: (because you deserve it, my LC said I'd earned platinum in breastfeeding, so have you!!!!!)

In the end it is up to you. If you feel it is too hard for you, or that your DD's health is being compromised (like if she's dropping further down in the chart or you feel she isn't doing well), you need to do whatever it takes for the two of you. Remember, you are an awesome mama, and you are doing so much for your little girl!

You're welcome to pm me if you want to talk.

[veeeyloova]

Hey! Sorry to hear that you're having issues! Fear not... My LO had a tongue tie when he was born which didn't get resolved for 2 weeks. As a result, he lost over a pound in his first 3 days and my milk didn't come in. I started pumping to improve it, and had to 'top him off' after every bf'ing session to make sure that he regained the weight.
He got a bottle, and was bf. It took FOREVER to get my milk in, but in it came and he took to it like a champ! We didn't have any issues with nipple confusion or the like. In fact, at 11 weeks he now REFUSES to take a bottle and freaks out if we have to give him one. Nipple confusion isn't an automatic!

[RunnerDuck]

Personally - I've come to conclude the whole nipple confusion thing is bull. We bought a ton of fancy bottles hoping to avoid it - and the babies hated them. What worked best for us were the cheap ol' Evenflos with the skinny silicon nipples...

We also had the problem were nursing was burning more calories than they'd take in. We would nurse for a set amount of time, then give bottles while I pumped. The hope was the girls would get the nutrition they needed and my boobs would get the message to make more milk.

It's a sound theory, but it didn't work.

I also tried everything - herbs, dom, oatmeal, beer, pumping, wearing the baby while naked, prayer, bargaining... everything. Ended up having to supplement.

But 1 year and some change later... they will nurse or take a bottle, no problems. Fat and healthy and we're all OK with things.

I personally know a lot of people who with held nipples only to have a baby who wouldn't take a bottle... and no one who was unable to get a baby to nurse after introducing bottles. I'm sure there are people out there with the baby who refuses to nurse but it seems like way more people get bitten in the a$$ the other way...

[[e-mail]]

DS hated the SNS refused my nipple with it - so we did nursing and bottles from the get go - I had little-no supply ever, but that is a different story. He happily nursed and took the bottle. Infact, even though my supply was laughable (I produced approx 1-2 oz/24hrs) he loved to be at the breast and never had any nipple confusion and we also used skinny silicon Dr. Brown's nipples. He continued to love to be at the breast for comfort, still does.

With the SNS , I may be wrong about how it works but can you possibly increase flow rate by using the larger tubing or holding it up higher for gravity to help the flow.

[starling&diesel]

Thanks for all your input, mamas.
DP is giving her a bottle right now. Which breaks my heart. But DP is very happy to be able to 'feed' her.
I nursed her first, and will nurse her after. And all the while I will pray that she and I can keep what nursing relationship we do have. I love having her at the breast, and she does get 2/3rds of her needs met there.
I'm going to go have a big ol' cry now.

[starling&diesel]

Originally Posted by RunnerDuck

I also tried everything - herbs, dom, oatmeal, beer, pumping, wearing the baby while naked, prayer, bargaining... everything. Ended up having to supplement.

But 1 year and some change later... they will nurse or take a bottle, no problems. Fat and healthy and we're all OK with things.

I personally know a lot of people who with held nipples only to have a baby who wouldn't take a bottle... and no one who was unable to get a baby to nurse after introducing bottles. I'm sure there are people out there with the baby who refuses to nurse but it seems like way more people get bitten in the a$$ the other way...

This is so reassuring to hear from a mama who has BTDT ... thank you.

[northwoodsmom]

s !!!

I'm currently supplementing with the SNS, and for the first few weeks my LO was having to work really hard to get the formula out... You've probably played around a lot with it, but for me and LO there are a few things that helped him get more from it without so much effort.

1- Use the largest tubes, which I assume you're already doing.
2- Shorten the string around your neck so that the bottle AND the bottom of the tubes hanging down are higher than your nipples.
3- After LO starts to nurse from one side, unclip the tube on the other side so that air can flow back up through it and there won't be so much of a vacuum in the bottle for LO to suck against. (Note: when you go to the second side, the other tube will be full of formula, so if you unclip it right away it will leak all over you. Wait a minute or two for LO to get some suction going, then unclip it and the formula will run back up the tube and air will get in.)

Hoping for the best for you! But please note, my LO (9 wks) seems to be able to go back and forth from breast to bottle with little or no confusion.