Luther vs Anabaptists! - Page 6

[Thao]

Originally Posted by Smokering

Common grace is not "discrete, occasional acts". Look it up.

I did, and it doesn't change my opinion. Receiving God's grace for 70-80 years before starting a life of eternal torment is pretty "occasional".

Originally Posted by Smokering

One might also point out that God incarnated Christ for the purpose of suffering and death for the benefit of others, despite the fact that Christ was sinless and unlike the rest of the human race didn't deserve such treatment; yet God still loved Christ. It's not an exact analogy, but it points out that God's love doesn't preclude using other people for His purposes.

And I will point out that after 33 years and a pretty nasty death Christ returned to Heaven and reunited with the Father for a happy ending. I've stated before that love can certainly cause short-term suffering for a larger purpose. It's the part about creating beings for eternal suffering that cannot be considered love. Now, if Calvinism believed in purgatory where the damned are sent for a time before ultimately being reunited with God, then that could be considered love.

Yeah, we'll never agree. I understand your argument, and I agree that it is logically consistent. But I do not think it is compatible with John 3:16 (and the other verses I mentioned). Bowing out now...

[Bluegoat]

Thao,

I was thinking, you should, if you get the chance, read "The Journey of the Mind to God" by St. Bonaventure, I think you would really enjoy it. Bonaventure was a contemporary of St Thomas, and head of the Franciscan. He was a very gifted philosopher, but he's a typical Franciscan in that his intellectual activities are always grounded in the idea of love, and with reason being grounded in that outpouring of self by God. The book ends with a vision of the divided nature of reason being brought together into a kind of radical loving unity.

[Thao]

Thanks for the recommendation, Bluegoat. I took a quick peek at it online and have to say I'm not sure I could wade through it. All these conversations, however, have made me think I should re-acquaint myself with the history of philosophy, it's been over 30 years since I took some basic classes in philosophy in college . Can you recommend a good, fairly accessible book for that?

[Bluegoat]

Originally Posted by Thao

Thanks for the recommendation, Bluegoat. I took a quick peek at it online and have to say I'm not sure I could wade through it. All these conversations, however, have made me think I should re-acquaint myself with the history of philosophy, it's been over 30 years since I took some basic classes in philosophy in college . Can you recommend a good, fairly accessible book for that?

One classic is "A History of Philosophy" by Frederick Copleston. I think it's still in print. I think it's about 8 volumes, but they are paperback size and pretty readable, and most libraries and good used book stores have them.

I'll try to think of a one volume intro and get back to you.

[Thao]

I checked on Amazon and it is actually 9 volumes .

Yeah, that's probably over my head .

If you think of another one, let me know.

[Bluegoat]

Originally Posted by Thao

I checked on Amazon and it is actually 9 volumes .

Yeah, that's probably over my head .

If you think of another one, let me know.

OK, I really like "An Introduction to Ancient Philosophy" by Hilary Armstrong, which seems to still be in print. It covers from the pre-Socratic philosophers through the practical philosophies of the late Roman Empire, and Neo-Platonism. It has a nice way of showing the continuity between the different movements and how they build on each other.

[Thao]

Thanks, I'll check it out!