13 yr old throwing punches... WWYD?

[KurumiSophia]

For the past week and a half, we've had my nephew over since he was suspended from school for breaking a window on the school bus. While we've had him, he's alternated between being a decent loving kid and being a completely disrespectful little prat. DH and I have done our absolute best to be patient and kind with him but he pushed our limits to the breaking point, both times ended up with DH having to put him in a sleeperhold to get him to calm down long enough to actually listen.

The first was with DN literally slamming a door in DH's face. (yes, he was using the door as a weapon to try to harm DH) The 2nd was this morning. He attempted to punch DH using a blanket to disguise his intent and than ran for the office where his grandmother was. DH tackled him and put him in a sleeper to get control of him so he'd at least make an effort to calm down.

We talked it over with DN's step-father later that day and apparently DN has already done the same to him at least 3x's. I know we're going to have DN over again at somepoint but I know the violence is not acceptable but I don't know of any GD way to handle it, esp. if he decides to aim that violence at my daughter. Me, I'd just punch him back but I know that isn't going to solve anything. So...help?

[BellinghamCrunchie]

I think there is more going on with this child than figuring out appropriate consequences will fix. Is he getting any counseling or have a diagnosis? If it takes a "sleeper" hold to calm him down I am doubtful his behavior is under a whole lot of volitional control... I think I'd look into mental health resources.

Meanwhile, the only thing I can think of to keep everyone safe is to make a safe room for him, with thick plexiglass windows (Lexan) and nothing he can hurt himself, and try to provide things in there that might help him calm down (mini-tramp, music, pillows???). Direct him to his room (escort if needed) and stand by his door to make sure he's not getting hurt in there, and to talk to him through the doorcrack if that helps him calm down.

[zazupitts]

you might want to read the threads/messages from the foster/adoptive parenting board. The parents there are more experienced with dealing with older kids with issues...and will prolly tell you that using the GD methods, at least initially, can be confusing for kids who are a) placed in a new environment, and b) struggling with self-control. Check out the threads for RAD kids, in particular.

[mommabear207]

have to tried having a discussion with hm?13 seems old enough to be able to explain the motives behind his behavior and old enough for you to reason with and have him able to understand your expectations.

[KurumiSophia]

Originally Posted by BellinghamCrunchie

I think there is more going on with this child than figuring out appropriate consequences will fix. Is he getting any counseling or have a diagnosis? If it takes a "sleeper" hold to calm him down I am doubtful his behavior is under a whole lot of volitional control... I think I'd look into mental health resources.

Meanwhile, the only thing I can think of to keep everyone safe is to make a safe room for him, with thick plexiglass windows (Lexan) and nothing he can hurt himself, and try to provide things in there that might help him calm down (mini-tramp, music, pillows???). Direct him to his room (escort if needed) and stand by his door to make sure he's not getting hurt in there, and to talk to him through the doorcrack if that helps him calm down.

He's got ADHD and a mood disorder (I have no idea what one). He's in therapy and takes medication for it. I'm just glad he's gone home. The only reason he was with us is that his mom or step-father couldn't take the time off to stay home with him through the period of his suspension and they didn't trust him to stay home alone.

I'd suggest the idea of a "safe room" for him but SIL has neither the room nor the resources to create one for him so we're all kinda at a loss.

[KurumiSophia]

Originally Posted by zazupitts

you might want to read the threads/messages from the foster/adoptive parenting board. The parents there are more experienced with dealing with older kids with issues...and will prolly tell you that using the GD methods, at least initially, can be confusing for kids who are a) placed in a new environment, and b) struggling with self-control. Check out the threads for RAD kids, in particular.

He's not with us anymore since his mom has now time off and he goes back to school on Mon. I'm just worried about when he comes back over and decides that he doesn't like what myself or DH tell him to do and he explodes again. Any suggestions to pass along to my SIL would be awesome.

[KurumiSophia]

Originally Posted by mommabear207

have to tried having a discussion with hm?13 seems old enough to be able to explain the motives behind his behavior and old enough for you to reason with and have him able to understand your expectations.

Yeah. We try to talk to him before he explodes but it's like the words just go in one ear and out the other. His responses are along the lines of "I don't care! You can't make me!" etc. He's bragged about making things hard on his mom and generally very disrespectful to everyone around him when he doesn't get exactly what he wants whether its go to a particular YMCA or play a game instead of doing homework, etc.

[mamaduck]

Well, I think that if you don't feel safe with him in your home, then you should not feel obligated to take him on. If it were me, I would set some very clear expectations (maybe in writing) and tell him in no uncertain terms that if he can't commit to meeting those expectations, then he cannot stay with you. It is critical to set clear boundaries in advance, and to enforce those boundaries, especially with a little girl of your own to look after.

I realize that will be hard on mom and dad, but he is THEIR responsibility, and if they have to take time of work to intervene, that might not be the most horrible thing in the world.

At the same time, I recognize that mom and dad need a lot of support. All kids require a delicate balance of nurture and structure from their parents, but kids with mental health issues need that balance to be especially fine tuned. Expectations and consequences need to be very clearly articulated and competely logical/fair. Power struggles and dominance conflicts make things so much worse, but vauge boundaries give kids with issues like this "permission" to take advantage and mistreat the people around them. Its very, very, very hard.

Reading "The Explosive Child" by Ross Greene would be an excellent starting place. He suggests starting conversations where the child wants something with the phrase, "I'm not saying no. I hear that you want to do x, y, or z. Here is what I need.... what can we work out between us?" Things sort of revolve around constant negotiation, and I cannot emphasize enough the idea of "fairness." Appealing to this child's sense of empathy probably does not work at all. But appealing to his sense of "fair" is most likely a better shot.

Keep on top of his meds, and going to the doctor a lot to adjust levels is critical too.

Another thing that sometimes works with boys this age is to appeal to their sense of "cool." Really, being explosive, reactive, and out of control is NOT "cool." But learning to "stay in control" and "taking charge of yourself" is something that boys want on some level. It is not "manly" to fly off the handle all the time -- it only shows that you cannot keep yourself under control.

[BellinghamCrunchie]

Originally Posted by KurumiSophia

Yeah. We try to talk to him before he explodes but it's like the words just go in one ear and out the other. His responses are along the lines of "I don't care! You can't make me!" etc. He's bragged about making things hard on his mom and generally very disrespectful to everyone around him when he doesn't get exactly what he wants whether its go to a particular YMCA or play a game instead of doing homework, etc.

That's pretty typical behavior for a child who gets out of control and is afraid of himself. He tries to make everyone think he's in control and that he has the power - that he's just "choosing" to get violent to manipulate others. Don't believe it. He doesn't really want to be this way.

I second the suggestion for The Explosive Child. Also, around his age, meds are real tricky and what worked last month may not be working this month due to the changes in his body and brain. So staying on top of the meds is critical. Also, I'm guessing his mood diagnosis might be bipolar - if so, its extremely difficult to find meds that work for both bipolar and ADHD (what works for ADHD tends to make bipolar worse). Since ADHD in childhood looks an awful lot like bipolar disorder, maybe he really only has bipolar.

Try posting in special needs - they're much more knowledgeable over there than I am!

[Nikki74]

In response to the OP -

It's hard to give an opinion on something without coming across as judgemental, but I'm going to stick my neck out anyway, and say that your DN sounds like he is hurting, really hurting. And in your OP you mentioned his step-father, implying that his real father is not around.

I just wanted to make a general statement here, and say that more often than not, kids are left with such deep, deep scars as the result of a parent leaving...it gives them rejection issues, abandonment issues, self esteem issues, anger, bitterness, rage, the whole works, and it is entirely possible that your nephew is hurting more than he knows how to put into words, and he doesn't know how else to show it.

Sometimes people behave in ways that they know will get them into trouble, or will ensure that people reject them, because inside they already feel rejected, and in a weird kind of way want to prove to themselves that everyone rejects them, and consequently behave in a way which will ensure that happening. Not sure if that makes sense, but I know what I'm *trying* to say...it's kind of like a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Anyway, that's my opinion, and it's not meant to be judgemental at all, though I have absolutely no idea how you should deal with the situation...

[phathui5]

I understand you wanting to help, I do. But with something like this, where having him in the house could put my children at risk, I would make it very clear to both him and his parents that he can't come back until he's able to consistantly keep his behavior under control.

At the first sign that he's losing control, one of his parents has to come pick him up.

At 13, if this is something that's happening frequently, I'd think he needs some sort of counseling.

[Aridel]

I agree with the PP who suggested setting some ground rules if he's going to come over again. Could his mother talk to his therapist and get a behavior plan set up? I wouldn't have him over again until you have a concrete plan: what do if x happens, if y happens call his mom, etc.

If you don't feel safe with him in the home, don't have him over. It feels terrible to leave a family stuck when parents have to work and someone needs to be with him, but you do have to keep your little ones safe, and set boundaries you feel comfortable with. If this ends up being what you have to do, make it clear you are still there for your sister: to listen, to help search out options for what to do, to help as long as it doesn't cross the line of where you feel OK.

Is your DN on an IEP (or a 504?) at school? They should be working with him, and he should have a behavior plan in place there. If he doesn't receive services, your sister could have him assessed to see if he qualifies as a child with special needs: emotional/behavioral disorders are one area that kids can receive services for. Children are not supposed to be kicked out of school for anything that is a result of a legitimate, documented, disability, though that does not mean inappropriate behavior passes with no consequences. However, I know not all parents feel comfortable doing this, since it involves a label, and can result in schools blaming everything on the label, rather than working through problems. If he keeps getting suspended, there may not be much of a choice, since receiving that label would keep him in school, where not having in it may have worse consequences.

[FondestBianca]

this screams of needing a non-family mentor to me. Sounds like this kid could really benifit from a perhaps a coach (martial arts, boxing, etc) who could give one on one time. This would have to be someone who is made aware of the behaviors and problems and who has a caring but, no tolerence teaching policy. Athletics are a great way to redirect bad enegry, emotions, and feelings. Most coaches in the fighting sports that I've come across are VERY opposed to children showing unnessesary disrespect to loved ones (especially gaurdians) or ANY kind of physical violence outside the rules inside the ring. They are also big on holding people to their own personal commitments and goals. Emersng himself in a fresh new world of goal setting, self disipline, bodily management and restraint, and listening skills could be very positive for every aspect of his young life.

The main focus here would be finding the right coach and a place where indivual attention will be given. Saddly, it can be hard to find a solid coach who themselves can keep their cool while remaining an athoritative but caring mentor to the child. They are out there, I promise!