Why should it be illegal for unvaxed kids to attend public school?

[NYMama27]

My friend said today that she thinks it should be illegal for unvaccinated children to attend public schools. I didn't want to get into it with her but does anyone have any idea why she would say this? It has been bugging me all day. If you vaccinate (and therefore it is assumed that you think vax's work) why would an unvaccinated child put yours at risk? I'm really curious.

[Gitti]

Ask her to explain it to you.

It is baffling.

[an_domhan]

The pro viewpoint, is that you are taking advantage of those that have taken the risk to provide you (or yours) with herd immunity. (Never mind that they'll talk out of the other side of their mouth and tell you the risk doesn't exist or that the risk for complication is rare).

You'll be reminded of the compromised part of the population that relies upon you (yours) to get vaccinated so that the weaker ones in the population can be protected. Apparently, you are supposed to feel guilty for those that are unable to fight infection and do it for them. If you don't partake, you risk everything and therefore should either be sued or ostracized for your selfish choices.

[NYMama27]

Ok, thanks. I thought I was missing something. She is a bit on the beligerent side so I try to avoid having this kind of discussion with her when I can help it.

[kiara7]

Everyone must play the game or else the vaxes don't work I guess.

[Scattershoot]

It has been bugging me all day. If you vaccinate (and therefore it is assumed that you think vax's work) why would an unvaccinated child put yours at risk? I'm really curious.

First of all, when you begin talking to someone like this, you have to remove your critical thinking filter. The common sense response of “if you believe vaccines work to protect your children, then why are you concerned if my child is unvaccinated” does not work in these types of discussions. Secondly, say a prayer that this parent does not have to witness her child suffer horrifically from a vaccination. The most self-assured people are often those who don't know any better.

[gbailey]

We selectively vaccinate and I'm not in the least bit concerned about DD being around unvaccinated children not that we would know anyway because it's not something we would ask. I don't think it should be legal to not allow unvaxed kids to go to public school. The truth is a lot of people I personally know who vaccinate on schedule have not educated themselves about vaccines so they end up making their decision based on the doctor scaring them into getting the vax so the baby "won't get sick." A lot of information about vaccinating whether delaying, alternate schedule or not vaxing at all is misleading or just incorrect. A lot of misinformation comes from the media and lack of knowledge.

[RiverSky]

You could answer that indeed, the vaccinated children shed disease and it means that the unvaccinated children might get sick from them, but that parents of unvaccinated children generally don't mind, so parents of vaccinated children shouldn't be so afraid of being blamed.

[fascha]

I just discussed this on another painfully mainstream board and will answer the same way.

If the reason kids would be excluded would be solely because they pose a safety threat to the public by not being vaccinated against x.y,x disease then ALL children vaccinated or not would have to undergo titer testing to ensure that they are indeed "immune" since efficacy is not 100%

What you would find is SOME unvaccinated children would be allowed to attend due to natural immunity and SOME vaccinated children would be kicked out because their vaccine wasn't effective.

This would present a problem since sometimes no matter how many times you vaccinate, some people's bodies don't respond with antibody production to sufficiently provide immunity.

Please explain to her that she ehould be scared of ALL children then because vaccines don't always work, nor do they prevent transmission of diseases, and finally...immunity wanes.

[emma1325]

The general belief is that the more vaccinated children in a setting, the less chance that a potentially deadly disease will be floating around.

Since vaccinated kids supposedly are protected, but the vaccines are not 100%, it's best to a vaccinating parent to have

1) his/her own child vaccinated

plus

2) every child around his/her child vaccinated


A vaccinating parent feels that exposure to a disease would probably not result in the disease since the child has had the vaccine, but he/she would prefer to not have exposure at all if possible.


This is the most logical way I can explain it. I still don't agree with it, but I can see the concern, if a parent truly believes that all vaccines work the way they're supposed to work, and are as safe as they are supposed to be.

[emma1325]

Originally Posted by fascha

I just discussed this on another painfully mainstream board and will answer the same way.

If the reason kids would be excluded would be solely because they pose a safety threat to the public by not being vaccinated against x.y,x disease then ALL children vaccinated or not would have to undergo titer testing to ensure that they are indeed "immune" since efficacy is not 100%

What you would find is SOME unvaccinated children would be allowed to attend due to natural immunity and SOME vaccinated children would be kicked out because their vaccine wasn't effective.

This would present a problem since sometimes no matter how many times you vaccinate, some people's bodies don't respond with antibody production to sufficiently provide immunity.

Please explain to her that she ehould be scared of ALL children then because vaccines don't always work, nor do they prevent transmission of diseases, and finally...immunity wanes.

Yes, yes, yes! Here in MS, where we only have a JOKE of a medical exemption available to parents, the state health department will accept titers on all diseases except DTaP. (Why they won't accept this one, I have no idea...your child can literally be completely immune to the disease and they will still require the shot, thus knowingly OVERvaccinating a child!)

Also, our state in the past has run out of stock for certain vaccines. When this happens, the health department announces that every child gets an exemption to that shot since it's out of stock.

WTF? Why was it mandated to begin with, then? When you have the shot available, it's somehow dangerous for my unvaccinated child to be there, right? And suddenly, just because the shot is unavailable, it is safe for ALL children to run around unvaccinated?

Doesn't make sense, and makes it obvious that the mandates are in place for compliance to a medical procedure and not public health. If the mandates were there for public safety, then an out of stock shot should mean every child has to stay home just like mine does when the shot is in stock. :

{Vent Over}

[princesstutu]

Originally Posted by NYMama27

If you vaccinate (and therefore it is assumed that you think vax's work) why would an unvaccinated child put yours at risk? I'm really curious.

S/he wouldn't.

The fact is that some people are not very bright. Recognize and keep it movin'.

[spero]

Tell your friend to move to WV or MS. She should be happy there.

[WC_hapamama]

I don't see the point of making it illegal... the way that the exemptions work in most states, the schools have the right to exclude unvaccinated students in the event of an epidemic.

[zinemama]

Seeing as how in almost every state it is easy to enroll an unvaxed kid in public school and the states have made specific provisions for parents to do so, it seems your friend is swimming against the legal tide.

[kiara7]

Originally Posted by zinemama

Seeing as how in almost every state it is easy to enroll an unvaxed kid in public school and the states have made specific provisions for parents to do so, it seems your friend is swimming against the legal tide.

:

Seems like in every state, every taxpayer pays for schools regardless of their family's vaccination beliefs, it would be very illegal to exclude those taxpayers' children from schools that they are paying for.

[emma1325]

Originally Posted by kiara7

:

Seems like in every state, every taxpayer pays for schools regardless of their family's vaccination beliefs, it would be very illegal to exclude those taxpayers' children from schools that they are paying for.

{raising hand} tax-paying citizen who is excluded, here.

[ericswifey27]

Well said!

Originally Posted by fascha

I just discussed this on another painfully mainstream board and will answer the same way.

If the reason kids would be excluded would be solely because they pose a safety threat to the public by not being vaccinated against x.y,x disease then ALL children vaccinated or not would have to undergo titer testing to ensure that they are indeed "immune" since efficacy is not 100%

What you would find is SOME unvaccinated children would be allowed to attend due to natural immunity and SOME vaccinated children would be kicked out because their vaccine wasn't effective.

This would present a problem since sometimes no matter how many times you vaccinate, some people's bodies don't respond with antibody production to sufficiently provide immunity.

Please explain to her that she ehould be scared of ALL children then because vaccines don't always work, nor do they prevent transmission of diseases, and finally...immunity wanes.

So true!

[jeanine123]

Why should a child's medical history be made public simply due to the fact that their parent(s) have chosen not to give them a vaccine?  Why should that child's privacy be invaded in such a way? 

Live are also taken by vaccines.

[AllyRae]

Yes, this.  I'm all for parents having the right to choose.  But I have an immune compromised child who CAN'T be vaccinated.  I should be able to know whether the place I send her 8 hours a day have children who are at a higher risk for carrying things that could kill her, like pertussis.  (That's a major reason why she's going to be homeschooled though.  Since there are children are not vaxed for reasons that are philosophical, that puts my immune compromised child at a greater risk than if she was in a place where everyone was vaccinated.  But, I'm not about to call for a mandate requiring every child who is in a school with an immune compromised child to be vaccinated. :  So, I keep her home and carefully control where exposure might happen, especially if there is an epidemic of something.  And, if an unvaxed child wants to visit my home, that's the only place where I have the right to request they not come (unless of course, I know that the chances of them being exposed to something was pretty limited...  For example, there is a huge pertussis outbreak going on out here.  My immune compromised child can't be vaccinated against it, but it's something that could kill her (I also have another child who has an allergy to the pertussis part of the dtp vax).  So, I do have to avoid allowing most unvaccinated children in my house (and really anyone who has been in a situation that puts them at higher risk for transmission) until the epidemic dies down. 

So yeah, everyone has the right to make a choice, and they sure shouldn't be excluded from public venues.  But as the parent of an immune compromised child, I keep her out of situations where there are likely children that are unvaxed and at a higher risk of transmitting something to her--so I will keep her out of school and daycares (I had to turn down an awesome job prospect at a Montessori school because it would have meant I was at greater risk of exposing my daughter by her being enrolled in the school, AND by me being around a lot of children who might be unvaccinated.), and to limit the number of unvaccinated children who enter my house during epidemic times.
 

Originally Posted by Because1Read 

I don't think it should be illegal but I think it is important to know if there are unvaccinated kids in the school.  For example not all people CAN get vaccinated due to allergies or disease and these people are put at serious risk of preventable diseases.  Also keep in mind that vaccines were created so children wouldn't die or be crippled by disease, lives are saved by vaccines.  Although  every parent has to weigh the risks of vaccines and choose for themselves I think it's important to be aware of those who choose not to get vaccines.