Are there any decent guys out there?

[madmama]

I seem to really dislike men alot lately. I work in a hockey rink so i am around alot of guys. I've been here for 6 years and it never really bothered me before, but since ds came along i am really annoyed by the way most men act. What i mean by that is, women bashing (verbally), fighting, temper tamtrums, and the way they talk about women like they are pieces of meat. I am even annoyed by dh's friends. I over hear thier conversations and think to myself what PIGS they are. I am sooooo worried about my ds. I don't want him to grow up to be like that. Are all men secretly like that, and only show it when they are around other men? or are there decent guys out there who respect women and don't act like babys when they lose a game?
I posted this here because i wanted a mans opinion, please help!

[supakitty]

Wow, I want to preface this by saying that I am not trying to flame you. I have to say that reading your post, as a woman, makes me feel defensive. I guess I put the shoe on the other foot and imagine a man coming to a forum devoted to being a mommy and posting something akin to "All men are pigs." Perhaps it would be "All women are nags" or some other type of catch phrase that pushes our buttons.

If you truly have a desire to understand the behavioral differences that exist among men and women I would suggest coming at it from a less hostile angle. If you're wanting to vent about men and disguise it as a question, then I suppose that's what you've done already.

Do you honestly believe that there are no decent men in the world? And if men are all secretly like that and there are no decent men in the world... why ask men if it's true?

This reply is really in the spirit of debate and not an attempt at anything else. I hope I haven't offended.

[Ame]

YES !!

There ARE decent men.....

I used to think the same way, for the most part. I had one bad experience after another. I have always had twice as many male friends than female friends and heard all the down and dirty crap, it was disheartening to say the least.

I couldnt imagine being with a man who was more sensitive, less mechanically inclined, basically a whimp. So, I thought I had two options........a whimp or a.....<CUSS WORD> bad guy. Had NEVER met a man who was a little of both. I figured I would be single for the rest of my life after some pretty bad relationships.

THEN .......I met a friend and we grew closer, what I would consider best friends. After about a year our relationship suddenly and unexpectedly went from just friends to much more than friends. Then, as the fairy tale goes, we lived happily ever after. Funny thing, I used to complain to him about how difficult men are, and some of the same complaints you metioned and then I'd moan and say "why can't I find someone more like you?" I really never meant that I wanted him......guess my conscience mind was not aware of what was really transpiring.

Sounds corny, but believe me its true.....

[Ame]

ooooopppppsss SORRY I re-read your post ~ I am not a man !!!!

Well I am not a man BUT I have a little different persepective being that most of friends are male and I hear all the "guy talk."

I think part of why some men act that way is that they are a product of their environment. How they were raised, their role models, etc.
Unless a man explores interpersonal relationships and who he is in the world, he is likely to follow the path he was sent down. Men who explore who they are and how they affect the people around them are more likely to change the path they travel on.

Okay enough...I'm not a man, but thats my opinion.

[papabliss]

Decent guys at a hockey rink?

I don't mean to pick on Yammer since he is a hockey player, but monster truck racing is the only activity I can think of that oozes more testosterone than hockey.

By the way, what is a "decent guy"? I know lots of guys I figure would be stereotyped as "decent" but that is just one guy's view of another. You mentioned what you don't like, but what DO you like or want to see in a guy.

Taking the antithesis of hockey, I would assume your decent guys are hanging out in science libraries, poetry readings, and monthly gatherings of the tropical fish society. This view would, of course, be based upon stereotypes of the folks in those groups.

But seriously, I do not think the actions of a bunch of men together represents those of any individual man, nor do the actions of a group of women fairly representative of the individual behavior of any single woman in the group.

To answer you question, I think men run the full spectrum when it comes to attitudes, behaviors, and maturity. Just like women. Your concerns about your ds are warranted, and also concerns I know await me in a few years when my son is old enough to absorb the actions of other males. Maybe I’ll get a fish tank now instead of later.

Happy searching!

[amy mama]

I know lots of awesome men. Men who truly love and respect women. Men who can have great conversations about current events, music, movies. Men who are fabulous cooks, and are really clean. Men who are wonderful with children. And, they're all gay!!!

[oneyellowbug]

a guy responds

I'm oneyellowbug's dh. She wanted me to read this with her so i begrudgingly did. Truthfully, I don't mind, I like to see what other people think about the way my wife is choosoing to raise our children. I like it most of the time. I agree with it most of the time. I just don't know much about a.p.
This was the first article I saw and after reading some responses I thought I might chime in. I love to wrestle, slap-box, watch martial arts etc. I get very excited when X-Games are on, etc. on the other hand I've played piano for twenty plus years, garden--love orchids, do chess and am willing to listen to and read her tree hugging babble Seriously, I put into practice the things which we both feel effective. I say all of this to point out that people are all different. In a hockey rink guys are more likely to trash talk. Yammer, through football, track, wrestling, in fact in all the sports I've done except rock-climbing I've heard trash talk in every locker-room. From women bashing to simple foul language. Mad mama, If you pay attention I think you'll find only some of the men are foul. The foul ones just happen to be the loudest and think they have the most to say. The decent ones are the ones giving courtesy laughs. Anyway, for whatever this was worth, there it is.
P.S. My wife dictated this

[jasnjakesmama]

I'm married to one!

And I have to say he's more than decent, he's wonderful
Sure there are times when he gets on my nerves and I dutifully bitch about him but those times are few and far between. And they are rarely serious issues. Rather minor annoyances.
It bothers me alot when women view men in generalities or as stereotypes. I have had some crappy men come into and out of my life but I have mostly had some great men that I love and cherish. Same as women. I have met some huge bitches that broke my heart and were horrible to me. Just as I have been fortunate enough to have some amazingly loving and supportive women to call my own.
It's pretty unfair to lump any group of people as either good or bad. People just aren't that way. I believe that for the most part people are good and they sometimes do bad things. And yes some people are just not nice.
I can give you specific examples of how wonderful some of the men in my life are but I'm not sure that you want that. I'm really hoping you are just annoyed and ranting. I'm hoping you really don't believe that there are no decent men out there....

[levar]

I just wanted to add [I am a girl, but hubby is a boy] that trash talk occurs everywhere, male or female, everywhere. Every go to a beauty salon and listen? YIKES!

Hubby works at a Rock Climb Gym where men and women instructors/clients are about 50/50. The trash talk amongst them worries ME too! But, only because my son is too young to understand that that is just what it is... trash talk. And trash talk can be fun and healthy! How else would I have ever found out that, lo and behold, my husband really isnt the only one in the whole wide world that *never* cleans up after himself... ;-)

~Sandie

Mommy to Taylor 4/15/00
Wife to Joe 3/20/99

[amy mama]

Is the word "bitches" really one that we want to use here to describe women? Just a gentle inquiry...

[jasnjakesmama]

Well, since I used the word- Yes. It is the one I chose. I do not use it to describe women in general but a few that I have had bad experiences with. Could I have used a better word? Possibly. But I said it, it's done with and I'm not going to change my post.
Sorry if you got offended.
I will try to be more sensitive in the future.

~Jennifer

[amy mama]

whoa mama-it was a gentle inquiry, not meant as an attack.

[jasnjakesmama]

I should clarify. I'm blunt. I'm not eloquent but I try hard to get my point accross.
I guess I did feel attacked despite the "gentle" disclaimer. It probably has something to do with the fact that there is so much drama going on here lately and so many people being attacked or having their posts ripped apart. (Not that that's what you did) just letting you know where I am coming from.
In your first post you basically implied that the only decent men are gay men. I can't tell you all the ways I disagree with that.
Yet I chose to let it be. It's your opinion. Mine is different.
You obviously don't think that we should ever call women bitches. I disagree.
We are both entitled to our points of view.
I don't want to rairoad this thread anymore so I will only post stuff that is pertinent to the question or the dialogue on decent men.
Peace,
Jennifer

[laurajean]

My husband is pretty wonderful.

My husband is a sweet, gentle and loving man. He is also honest, kind and just. I love him very much.

(Of course we have issues and difficulties. No relationship is perfect. In the end, we work through them.)

My dh is one of the most decent men I know. And, I know he has a great deal of respect for women in general.

~Laura

[amy mama]

I was trying to be humorous in my origingal post here. Guess I failed. I don't actually believe that only gay men are decent men.

[member]

(((Amy Mama))) I thought it was pretty funny.

As for decent men inquiry... I am not a man. I agree with much of what Yammer wrote in the above. I have pretty high expectations of both men and women. Many of the men I have close relationships with have many of the same interests as me and we tend to talk about those subjects... but I'll be the first to admit that I am only close with politcally radical men with pro-feminist agendas... wish I had more advice for your specific situation, Madmama. Good luck.

[MomtoMia]

Amy Mama -- I thought your post was VERY funny and obviously meant to be so - I could have posted it myself, except I would have added ' . . . men with an excellent sense of fashion'
Mary

[jasnjakesmama]

Self edited

[familyman]

men are pigs and dogs and every other foul thing you wish to call us. but ask your self are we worth it? is it better that we act competivly with each other or bring it to our relationships? i find that if i am pissed about nothing important sounding off to the men in my life lets it go. i dont bring it home where it can develop into a fight. that is not constructive. in addition sometimes we jest in the line of " i used to walk 20 miles to school" " oh yeah i walked 20 miles half way on my hands" etc. it is a tool that helps me love my wife even more because i heard even worse stories about someone else, and think "i got it really good" most of the trash talk between me and the men in my life is simply trash. meant to blow off steam. if you hear it out of context it can sound hurtfull. so dont make it real, let it stay in the trash. i bet most of these men are commited husbands and fathers. dont hate us for blowing off steam for it is just that.
on the other hand if what is being said is truly hurtfull and distructive to the reationship it is up to the other men present to bring that man back to honor. we do love women and our lives are enriched by your presence. you are the mothers of our children, the keepers of our most prize accomplishments. would it be better if we bragged about how great our wives and girlfriends are?, i do. my wife is the most beautiful, powerfull, intelegent, sexy, loving , feminine, and all around perfect woman for me. not to mention i couldnt choose a better partner to help raise our kids.
am i a pig? yes. are you a sow? i hope so.

[lorrielink]

ditto

yes why cant we seem to give the guys the option of being diverse creatures, isnt that what a lot of woman "complian" about not being given?

i can be one heck of a "b" and just as strongly be compasionate.

i think men are the same, theres no reason to pick one group of men in one single situation and label that "the way men are!"

i know for a fact that i and many of my girl freinds have questionable ways of blowing off steam and men should be allowd to do the same

it takes all kinds to make life interesting, what would we all have to talk about if noone was rude?