autism / tylenol link after MMR - Page 2

[sbgrace]

I already know that study about glutathione. You're still talking about a tiny percent of people who already have mitochondrial disorder (and are likely already autistic...my son never had MMR or tylenol as a matter of fact). It is a big leap to apply that information to those without the condition in the first place.

I tell you surely that a fever will damage a mito kid too. You can find information about kids who died after the flu. But that doesn't mean the average parent needs to worry that a fever will cause autism in their child. Similarly, the average parent doesn't need to worry about tylenol causing autism either. Or tylenol/MMR.

[runes]

Originally Posted by sbgrace

I already know that study about glutathione. You're still talking about a tiny percent of people who already have mitochondrial disorder (and are likely already autistic...my son never had MMR or tylenol as a matter of fact). It is a big leap to apply that information to those without the condition in the first place.

.

It's not a big leap at all to consider that there are other reasons besides mitochondrial disorder for someone to have low glutathione levels, and having that be a possible trigger for conditions like autism.

Take a child who is just getting over an illness, or about to come down with one (decreased glutathione), who eats the standard american diet (decreased glutathione), is under stress from being in daycare (decreased glutathione), maybe someone in the family smokes and the child is exposed to second hand smoke (decreased glutathione) and is given Tylenol before and after having been vaccinated (decreased glutathione x 2).

Hmmm. The above is a description of THOUSANDS of little ones, not a tiny percentage. And we haven't even started the discussion about genetic predisposition.

[sbgrace]

The reason I say it is a leap to apply this to a large percent of the population:
This was a small (20 affected individual) study to find a 20 to 25% reduction compared to unaffected controls. By the way those unaffected controls would have stress and standard american diet and etc. So comparable to your infants without mito. But anyway this showed reduced levels in those people. The reduction (they hypothesize) depended on severity of disease. Those with lower levels had higher body stress using up their stores. Similarly, they might have lower levels of co-q-10 as their body uses that at an abnormally high rate.

The Poling referred to had autism before that vaccination. She regressed. We have no idea if she had tylenol so it's really irrelevant. She could have regressed due to fever too. Other kids regress after the flu or surgery or sleeping through the night. Mine regressed around age two without vaxes. He did have a series of ear infections (holistically treated with chiro/removing dairy and I didn't suppress fever). I honestly don't know many mito patients who regress with vaxes. Most are vaccinated because the illness itself would be devastating. But it's possible as any stress on the body can cause regression. Tylenol would be a drop in the bucket in my opinion. And it's not going to push a healthy child over the edge. That's my point. I'm tired of trying to make it.

There aren't thousands of kids with regressive autism after vaccines. There just aren't.

Avoid tylenol. Just don't count on that to prevent autism.

[runes]

Originally Posted by sbgrace

Tylenol would be a drop in the bucket in my opinion. And it's not going to push a healthy child over the edge. That's my point. I'm tired of trying to make it.

It matters on what you consider "healthy" to be. In my above example, there are many many children that have every single one of those things going on in their lives, and I bet that most of those parents think that their child is "healthy".

I respectfully disagree that Tylenol is a drop in the bucket.

Originally Posted by sbgrace

There aren't thousands of kids with regressive autism after vaccines. There just aren't.

We agree. Sort of. More like tens of thousands.

Originally Posted by sbgrace

Avoid tylenol. Just don't count on that to prevent autism.

Of course. Autism is very complicated and multifactorial, and anyone who claims that they have that ONE thing that will "prevent" it, whether it's vaccines, or Tylenol, is not seeing the big picture.

[J_Mac]

"The Poling referred to had autism before that vaccination. "

No she didn't. Furthermore, they aren't even acknowledging that she does in fact, have autism. They're calling it a mitochondrial disorder with "autism-like symptoms." It would be nice to read the details of that case, but from what I understand, the records are sealed. She did seem to have quite a few ear infections in her first year of life, and it's not unreasonable to assume that Tylenol might have been used to control fever and pain.

[newmum35]

Originally Posted by emma1325

Hi, I posted a thread once about tylenol given before/after vaccinations, but I'm not sure if mine is the one you're thinking of.

I didn't have a study, but I had stumbled upon an explanation of sodium benzoate, a preservative used in tylenol. Here it is:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium_benzoate

"...Professor Peter Piper of the University of Sheffield claims that sodium benzoate by itself can damage and inactivate vital parts of DNA in a cell's mitochondria. Mitochondria consume oxygen to generate ATP, the body's energy currency. If they are damaged due to disease, the cell malfunctions and may enter apoptosis. There are many illnesses now tied to DNA damage, including Parkinson's and other neurodegenerative diseases, but above all, the aging process in general.[9][10][11][12][13]"


I then thought immediately about Hannah Poling, the little girl who was developed autism from vaccines, so says the federal government. However, it is believed that she had an "underlying mitochondrial disorder" which pre-disposed her to developing autism from the shots. (If you google Hannah Poling and mitochodrial disorder, you'll come up with tons of stuff.)

So I wonder if by giving tylenol before vaccines, we are interfering with our children's mitochodrial function, thus predisposing them to autism.

Oh you wouldn't believe this but guess what. I just found out the liquid vitamins my son has been on (since 2 months old I Think... he is 18 months now) has SODIUM BENZOATE in it! yep - I guss its one of the preservatives. the vitamins were prescribed only because he was breastfed, and it was for vitamin D (although I noticed it also had a lot of B vitamins in it - no iron) . When I read that, I remembered our discussion. If this preservative really IS causing problems in some kids, then tylenol is probably the tip of the iceberg or maybe not as big of a problem as thought, considering some kids are getting a dose every day (in their vitamins!) so maybe the bigger picture is the vitamins or a source bigger than tylenol.

Someone from this forum (I can't remember who) was kind enough to want to send me the .pdf of a study (maybe the one I was looking for) and asked for my email address... I thought I replied but haven't received it yet. So if you are out there, please resend it, I haven't yet got it and afraid it might have went to spam or something. Or if anyone knows more links about the tylenol / autism connection. I want to learn not only for myself, but for a relative. This is in reference to the MMR and I wanted to send them the link if I had a good one.

[J_Mac]

Oh you wouldn't believe this but guess what. I just found out the liquid vitamins my son has been on (since 2 months old I Think... he is 18 months now) has SODIUM BENZOATE in it! yep - I guss its one of the preservatives. the vitamins were prescribed only because he was breastfed, and it was for vitamin D (although I noticed it also had a lot of B vitamins in it - no iron) . When I read that, I remembered our discussion. If this preservative really IS causing problems in some kids, then tylenol is probably the tip of the iceberg or maybe not as big of a problem as thought, considering some kids are getting a dose every day (in their vitamins!) so maybe the bigger picture is the vitamins or a source bigger than tylenol.>>>>>>>>>>

Sodium benzoate is awful stuff, no doubt. Mix it with Vitamin C (ascorbic acid) and you get BENZENE, a known carcinogen.

http://www.cfsan.fda.gov/~dms/benzdata.html

It really pays to read those labels, and be educated about what goes into your kids' bodies, because the FDA sure ain't looking out for them.

[mkmoro311]

Maybe something to look into would be how long Tylenol has been used reguarly for infants/children for fever reducing. Has it been on the rise the past 30 yrs like Autism has? Also, perhaps by taking Tylenol and not allowing the body to reduce its fever naturally may play a role in it!

[ASusan]

Originally Posted by newmum35

Someone from this forum (I can't remember who) was kind enough to want to send me the .pdf of a study (maybe the one I was looking for) and asked for my email address... I thought I replied but haven't received it yet. So if you are out there, please resend it, I haven't yet got it and afraid it might have went to spam or something. Or if anyone knows more links about the tylenol / autism connection. I want to learn not only for myself, but for a relative. This is in reference to the MMR and I wanted to send them the link if I had a good one.

I was me, and I just sent you the full text PDF. Sorry it took me so long to respond. (I try to do Mothering at home, but the article was on my work computer.)

[newmum35]

Originally Posted by ASusan

I was me, and I just sent you the full text PDF. Sorry it took me so long to respond. (I try to do Mothering at home, but the article was on my work computer.)

THANK YOU !!! I so appreciate it!! I am printing it out, (reading it now) and saving a copy too.

[caned & able]

Asprin started to get a bad rap in the 1970s because of over use and its connection to Reyes Syndrome in children. Tylenol was used in its place, until the scare of 1981; it still is used over asprin because asprin causes bleeding problems.