What does this mean?

[stacey05]

I got this from an article off another thread here....can someone please tell me if this is true and what it means?? I'm so confused!

>>This is very concerning," said Dr. Gary Emmett, Chief of Hospital Pediatrics at Thomas Jefferson University Hospital. He says children who get the first three doses of the HIB vaccine carry the germ. He says without the booster dose, which kills the germ, vaccinated children can pass the disease on to kids who haven't gotten shots, and that is why we're seeing a rise in Hib cases.

"Because we're not giving the fourth vaccine they're able to give it to others even if they don't get sick themselves," said Dr. Emmett.<<<<

Stacey

[AJHCFamily]

Originally Posted by stacey05

I got this from an article off another thread here....can someone please tell me if this is true and what it means?? I'm so confused!

>>This is very concerning," said Dr. Gary Emmett, Chief of Hospital Pediatrics at Thomas Jefferson University Hospital. He says children who get the first three doses of the HIB vaccine carry the germ. He says without the booster dose, which kills the germ, vaccinated children can pass the disease on to kids who haven't gotten shots, and that is why we're seeing a rise in Hib cases.

"Because we're not giving the fourth vaccine they're able to give it to others even if they don't get sick themselves," said Dr. Emmett.<<<<

Stacey

Could you post a link to where this quote is from? I'm curious, but sorry don't know the answer.

[Fyrestorm]

Sounds to me like they are trying to push a 4th dose and explain why 3 aren't working at the same time...the logic totally escapes me....

[carriebft]

Of the 7 cases in PA, one 1 had had any doses, and that child had 1 dose. So it's not that the vaccines are not working, IMO-- it just seems to be that transmission to unvaccinated kids is happening and they are the ones having the invasive cases. Instead of having this solid population of kids with immunity and protection against transmitting, we no longer have that. So a kid without the full series can carry just like an unvaccinated child.

(well, that is what they are saying, if it's actually true-- it's debatable)

[Marnica]

Originally Posted by Fyrestorm

Sounds to me like they are trying to push a 4th dose and explain why 3 aren't working at the same time...the logic totally escapes me....

:

[Fyrestorm]

Besides...none of this makes sense since there has NOT been a rise in HIB cases in the first place...Are they just trying to sell another dose?

[carriebft]

How does the evidence suggest the three are not working?

[carriebft]

Originally Posted by Fyrestorm

Besides...none of this makes sense since there has NOT been a rise in HIB cases in the first place...Are they just trying to sell another dose?

I dunno, this area has not seen a single case since 1997 and now we have 7 in 6 months. That seems fishy.

I would have to actually see more data to see if its more serotyping or what.

[carriebft]

2009 PA:

4. January 5 months Sepsis Survived 0 doses
5. February 3 years Meningitis Died 1 dose
6. March 4 years Meningitis Died 0 doses


Suspected case:

7. January 2 years Pneumonia/sepsis Died 0 doses


So, if the MMWR is to be believed and there have only been 6 TOTAL cases in 2009 so far...then 3 or 4 of them have all been in this area....

[Fyrestorm]

This was posted by MomMason on another thread - from the MMWR:

2003 - 32 cases
2004 - 19 cases
2005 - 9 cases (strange anomaly?)
2006 - 29 cases
2007 - 22 cases
2008 - 30 cases
2009 - 7 cases so far (up thru week 12, all the data that is available on MMWR)

[carriebft]

I have not seen a week 12, only week 11 is avilable on CDC website which shows 6 cases....so, if there have been 7 nationwide and half or more than half are from SEPA, then I still think something is amiss here.



And I still wonder where the evidence for the vax not working is?


ETA:

So if the case number remains 30 for this year-- if we look into the future and in december 2009 there have only been 30 cases, but 20 of them were in the same metro area, then wouldn't that area still be considered to have/be suffering from an outbreak?

So the overall cases is not the only thing, IMO.

People keep saying "there is not an outbreak of hib"

but it is a local outbreak if it's more cases than expected in that area. If we have had no cases since 1997 and now we have 7 in 6 months, how is that not an outbreak?

[Mom2Mason]

This is where I got my numbers up through week 12 showing 7 cases of Hib:

http://wonder.cdc.gov/mmwr/mmwr_reps...2&mmwr_table=1

I would be very interested in seeing the breakdown by state for type b for past years, but if there's a place to find that, I'm not aware of it. I would love to be enlightened, if someone knows where that data could be found. However, the MMWR does show all (b, non b, and unknown) invasive Hi disease for all age groups broken down by state for past years. The numbers for PA (and that region of the country) don't look so different from past years, but I don't know what that means specifically for Hi type b.

I do understand what you're saying, though, Carrie. If I lived in PA, this "outbreak" (for lack of a better word) would have an impact on my decision about the Hib vaccine. However, it just really ticks me off when news articles and pro-vax articles paint this whole scenario with a very broad brush, passing the Great Hib Outbreak of 2009 off as something caused by non-vaxers. There IS NO Great Hib Outbreak of 2009, according to the numbers.

[carriebft]

What I also do not get is that we are on track to have MORE untyped cases than any other year that is showing on the chart.


IF this is all just about more publicity and more typing/reporting, then why are we on track to have more untyped cases than any other year showing?

[Jadzia]

How come people keep blaming non-vaxxers and not the Hib vaccine shortage? It seems like there are many more people that actually want to get this vaccine and can't get it, than there are people who are intentionally skipping it. I would think the widespread vax shortage would have a much greater affect than a few non-vaxxers.

If there is an any outrage here, why not direct it at the vaccine manufacturer?

[mamakay]

Originally Posted by carriebft

What I also do not get is that we are on track to have MORE untyped cases than any other year that is showing on the chart.


IF this is all just about more publicity and more typing/reporting, then why are we on track to have more untyped cases than any other year showing?

I do think the press releases are marketing as much as anything. The news reports read very much along the lines of the CDC's "seven step recipe to create demand for vaccines". BUT I think the CDC might also be wondering if there is going to be a real increase this year, too, perhaps. But they're looking at the same overall data we are, so it can't be clear to them. Those 30ish cases a year have been coming from somewhere each year. It wouldn't surprise me if last year there was something like "4 cases in Texas, the most since 1995" or something. But no one decided to "use" it to preach about vaccination.

Where are you seeing the stuff about "untyped" cases on the rise?

[carriebft]

MMRW...it shows the total untyped cases...did the math to see how many we would have if the rate stayed the same, and it is higher than the cum in others years showing.

[carriebft]

so, we are on track to get 208 untyped cases, which is higher than the past 5 years...although I see now 2005 was a bit higher, but that is a strange year altogether it seems...

[mamakay]

Originally Posted by carriebft

MMRW...it shows the total untyped cases...did the math to see how many we would have if the rate stayed the same, and it is higher than the cum in others years showing.

"Untyped" or "nontypeable"?

[carriebft]

"unknown serotype"

[carriebft]

in the report this week they said that hib numbers don't seem to be rising but also said this:

Jackson and colleagues noted 763 cases of H. influenzae among children younger than age 5. Of those, 6.4% were serotype B. However, Jackson said that 19 of 49 jurisdictions reporting H. influenzae cases were missing serotype data on more than half of their cases, and seven were missing serotype data for all cases.

http://www.pediatricsupersite.com/view.aspx?rid=38450