DD's pediatrician lied to be regarding titers

[gbailey]

I called DD's pediatrician today and told him I'd like her titers checked before she's given another polio,hib,pcv and DTAP. he tells me this test is done in a special lab and they don't test for that at the facility where his office is. Mind you, she got her lead test done there. I called another pediatrician who was nice enough to speak to me even though DD is not a patient. He told me a titers test is just a routine blood test and he was unaware there are special places to go to in order to draw blood. He did say he personally recommends waiting 6 months after vaccination in order to test titers because it would give him a more accurate reading. All of this from a ped who hasn't met my own daughter. Now i am on the search for another pediatrician. DH and I may not vaccinate any other child or children we have. All of this unnecessary drama not only pisses me off but makes me realize a lot of this stuff is just unnecessary. Makes me wonder if some of what we've already done is unnecessary.

[mysticmomma]

All of this unnecessary drama not only pisses me off but makes me realize a lot of this stuff is

why are you continuing to vax this one?

[jeliphish]

call your DD's pedi and read him the riot act!!! How dare he insult your inteligence. I would contact the hospital as well!!!

[gbailey]

Originally Posted by jeliphish

call your DD's pedi and read him the riot act!!! How dare he insult your inteligence. I would contact the hospital as well!!!

DH asked me to leave this one up to him. He's normally very laid back but is pissed the doctor would tell me this knowing full well it's a blatant crock of poo. My thing is. If he disagrees with how we've done things I prefer he say so and state his opinion or say, "I personally don't do this test or fill out the form to have this test done" than to lie.

[emma1325]

Maybe it was a misunderstanding...hopefully it was.

I think you should go to that other doctor who was honest with you. Is that possible to give him a try?

[gbailey]

Originally Posted by emma1325

Maybe it was a misunderstanding...hopefully it was.

I think you should go to that other doctor who was honest with you. Is that possible to give him a try?

DH says he'll speak to him and see what he has to say. I just called back the doctor who spoke to me to see if he accepts our insurance. The office is closed for the day so I'll check back on Monday. I was impressed that he took the time to speak to a person who was not his patient. A lot of doctors won't do that.

[gbailey]

Originally Posted by mysticmomma

why are you continuing to vax this one?

because that's the choice her father and i have made

[mysticmomma]

Originally Posted by gbailey

because that's the choice her father and i have made

wow.

[Turquesa]

Howdy. Devil's advocate popping in here.

DD goes to a very vax-friendly family physician. We do delayed/selective vaxing and she never pressures us to do otherwise. When I inquired about titers, she explained to me that her practice was unequipped to do it because they lacked the tiny needles required for children and some of the other equipment for the test. She then told me that she'd be happy to provide a referral to the hospital lab down the street to get the titers checked there.

Your doctor may have something similar going on at his practice. But if he's not supportive of your vax decisions, he probably didn't bother explaining why he couldn't or where you could go to get the test done. : So although he may not have lied, it's likely that he didn't give you the whole story. Either way, it may be good to find a physician who is more helpful and supportive.

[gbailey]

Originally Posted by Turquesa

Howdy. Devil's advocate popping in here.

DD goes to a very vax-friendly family physician. We do delayed/selective vaxing and she never pressures us to do otherwise. When I inquired about titers, she explained to me that her practice was unequipped to do it because they lacked the tiny needles required for children and some of the other equipment for the test. She then told me that she'd be happy to provide a referral to the hospital lab down the street to get the titers checked there.

Your doctor may have something similar going on at his practice. But if he's not supportive of your vax decisions, he probably didn't bother explaining why he couldn't or where you could go to get the test done. : So although he may not have lied, it's likely that he didn't give you the whole story. Either way, it may be good to find a physician who is more helpful and supportive.

Thank you. I really appreciate you writing this. It was very helpful and if this is the case with our doctors office I wish he would have explained this a bit better. We are in the same situation as you with delaying/selective vaxing. He hasn't pressured us in the past although we wonder what he'll say, if we continue to use him, whether he'll stay on the same track regarding MMR and varicella. In any case, your info was very helpful and I will share with DH when he comes home. Thanks so much. Your post has made me calm down quite a bit because I was rather pissed. LOL

[tinyblackdot]

Originally Posted by mysticmomma

wow.

what? am i missing something?

s

[Lisa1970]

Why not go to the ped you spoke to on the phone who answered your questions? He sounds nice to me.

[gbailey]

Originally Posted by Turquesa

Howdy. Devil's advocate popping in here.

DD goes to a very vax-friendly family physician. We do delayed/selective vaxing and she never pressures us to do otherwise. When I inquired about titers, she explained to me that her practice was unequipped to do it because they lacked the tiny needles required for children and some of the other equipment for the test. She then told me that she'd be happy to provide a referral to the hospital lab down the street to get the titers checked there.

Your doctor may have something similar going on at his practice. But if he's not supportive of your vax decisions, he probably didn't bother explaining why he couldn't or where you could go to get the test done. : So although he may not have lied, it's likely that he didn't give you the whole story. Either way, it may be good to find a physician who is more helpful and supportive.

Forgot to ask you. Are the needles they use to draw blood for the lead test the same as to check the titers? I ask because they've checked her blood at this facility before. TIA

[Theoretica]

Originally Posted by gbailey

DH and I may not vaccinate any other child or children we have.

All of this unnecessary drama not only pisses me off but makes me realize a lot of this stuff is just unnecessary.

Makes me wonder if some of what we've already done is unnecessary.

because that's the choice her father and i have made

It is unnecessary. It is drama. It is politics.

So why continue to make the choice to vax? I just want to encourage you to really think about even considering continuing to vax this child when you are already considering not vaxing any other/future children.

You can *always* administer a vax later on, you can *never* unvax once it's done.

[EviesMom]

I'm in NYC and a selective/delayed vaxer as well. Our previous peds also did the lead test in the office, but don't check titers there. We had to go to a separate lab to get chickenpox immunity proven (they wouldn't/couldn't diagnose it either). I don't know if there's a reason behind it or if it's part of office politics, but I try to think the best of it. Nonetheless, I'm happy to have a different ped.

I am curious though about why you want to do the titers for so many things. I understand for Measles, because 95-98 percent are immune without the second shot IIRC, and I believe that titers for that are valid here for school entry in lieu of a second Measles-containing vax. If we send DD back to school in the future, we'll probably do titers for Measles instead of a booster. Chickenpox the titers are also valid, which is why we did them. (I presume you know, as many PP are pointing out, that you can forgo vaxes from this point forward and do an exemption all together).

Prevnar isn't required unless your child was born in 2008 or later. Even then, it's for preschool only. HiB is preschool only, and I don't think titers are valid for requirements. Polio and DTaP they're not going to accept titers in lieu of boosters for school. Are you wanting to check for your own comfort level in terms of protection or are you worried about school admittance? Feel free to PM me if you want to talk more about NYC peds and vaxes.

[Turquesa]

Originally Posted by gbailey

Forgot to ask you. Are the needles they use to draw blood for the lead test the same as to check the titers? I ask because they've checked her blood at this facility before. TIA

I don't know for sure, but it could be because the doc told me that they generally don't draw children's blood there.

[gbailey]

Originally Posted by Theoretica

It is unnecessary. It is drama. It is politics.

So why continue to make the choice to vax? I just want to encourage you to really think about even considering continuing to vax this child when you are already considering not vaxing any other/future children.

You can *always* administer a vax later on, you can *never* unvax once it's done.

We're continuing to vax because we believe some of them are unnecessary. I appreciate your opinion but I bet if I told you to seriously consider vaxing you and other people would be on me like white on rice. I am not against vaccines for my child. There are some we believe are necessary and some we don't.

I am also well aware that there is no such thing as unvaxing.

I don't need encouragement to think about what is best for my child because it's something her father and I never stop thinking about just as I am sure is the case with all of the mom and dads on this board and elsewhere.

My issue is not whether to vaccinate my daughter. The issue is finding a doctor who I feel comfortable communicating with and whom I trust. Fortunately I think I've found one.

[gbailey]

Originally Posted by Turquesa

I don't know for sure, but it could be because the doc told me that they generally don't draw children's blood there.

Thanks Turquesa. I took DD to the ped yesterday because she wasn't feeling well. She's okay now just a bunch of teeth coming in at once. Anyway, we saw another doc since her current ped was not in. I asked this doc about the titers to see her response. She said it's not routinely done but can be done and in her opinion checking titers works best for older children. She said while it's not routinely done if a parent requests the tests she would do it but by telling them she does not consider it accurate. She told me, "I want a mom and dad to have peace of mind so if having the test made you feel better we'd do it but since we don't find the results to be exact I'd rather not take blood from your daughter unnecessarily." I thought her explanation was fair and I was satisfied with that. We are definitely switching doctors (may end up using her) but I think I found another doctor who is happy with our alternate schedule. We're going to have a consult with her this week to discuss. Don't want to be going from doctor to doctor so we want to make the best decision. Thanks for your info. It was really helpful!

[Turquesa]

Glad it helped but, more importantly, I'm glad you found a new doctor!

Her response to your titers request is interesting, given the state law in neighboring New Jersey. This thread discusses it.

So while "it's rarely done" where you live, it's required to be offered in NJ for the MMR vax. I can only cross my fingers that other states follow suite.

[greersc]

I hate to rain on this doctor bashing parade, but just because the first doctor did not give you the answer you were looking for does not mean he was lying. In fact I wonder about the second doctor so easily agreeing to your request.

Many offices will do finger sticks for things like lead, but send patients to a drawing station if they need venipuncture, so this doctor may indeed not draw blood in their office.

The bigger issue is you did not ask for a simple blood test. You asked for 6 different tests. Half of these tests are not done at the typical commercial labs doctors deal with, like Lab Corp, so he was telling you the correct answer that they require special laboratories. The total cost of these tests would be well over $1,000. Are you willing to pay that amount of money for this simple test? What would you do with the results? I am not aware of published antibody levels for each of these items that indicate immunity. A series of vaccines are given to produce higher levels of protective antibodies each dose so that immunity will last for many years. A titer today does not tell you about immunity in several years. How often are you going to repeat these levels?

In my humble, evil doctor, opinion you need to decide if you are going to vaccinate or not. Trying to vaccinate based on antibody levels is not going to work.