DD's pediatrician lied to be regarding titers - Page 2

[an_domhan]

Originally Posted by greersc

In my humble, evil doctor, opinion you need to decide if you are going to vaccinate or not. Trying to vaccinate based on antibody levels is not going to work.

All of the efficacy data (in humans) I've seen relates to seroconversion... nothing else.

[runes]

Originally Posted by greersc

I hate to rain on this doctor bashing parade, but just because the first doctor did not give you the answer you were looking for does not mean he was lying. In fact I wonder about the second doctor so easily agreeing to your request.

Many offices will do finger sticks for things like lead, but send patients to a drawing station if they need venipuncture, so this doctor may indeed not draw blood in their office.

The bigger issue is you did not ask for a simple blood test. You asked for 6 different tests. Half of these tests are not done at the typical commercial labs doctors deal with, like Lab Corp, so he was telling you the correct answer that they require special laboratories. The total cost of these tests would be well over $1,000. Are you willing to pay that amount of money for this simple test? What would you do with the results? I am not aware of published antibody levels for each of these items that indicate immunity. A series of vaccines are given to produce higher levels of protective antibodies each dose so that immunity will last for many years. A titer today does not tell you about immunity in several years. How often are you going to repeat these levels?

In my humble, evil doctor, opinion you need to decide if you are going to vaccinate or not. Trying to vaccinate based on antibody levels is not going to work.

Thanks so much, you brought up a point that I've always wondered about.

Why aren't vaccinated kids being titre tested to see if the vaccine created an appropriate immune response?

Why aren't vaccinated kids being titre tested at frequent intervals to determine whether the immune response has not diminished over time? Waning immunity from vaccines is a REALITY, but hardly ever addressed. Actually, I prefer to call waning immunity by it's proper medical term, aka secondary vaccine FAILURE.

Your last statement needs clarification. How do you think they actually test a vaccine's efficacy?

Hint hint...they do titre testing.

Imagine that!

Maybe you missed that day of med school?


I'm "just a mom", and even I know that!

[gbailey]

Originally Posted by greersc

I hate to rain on this doctor bashing parade, but just because the first doctor did not give you the answer you were looking for does not mean he was lying. In fact I wonder about the second doctor so easily agreeing to your request.

Many offices will do finger sticks for things like lead, but send patients to a drawing station if they need venipuncture, so this doctor may indeed not draw blood in their office.

The bigger issue is you did not ask for a simple blood test. You asked for 6 different tests. Half of these tests are not done at the typical commercial labs doctors deal with, like Lab Corp, so he was telling you the correct answer that they require special laboratories. The total cost of these tests would be well over $1,000. Are you willing to pay that amount of money for this simple test? What would you do with the results? I am not aware of published antibody levels for each of these items that indicate immunity. A series of vaccines are given to produce higher levels of protective antibodies each dose so that immunity will last for many years. A titer today does not tell you about immunity in several years. How often are you going to repeat these levels?

In my humble, evil doctor, opinion you need to decide if you are going to vaccinate or not. Trying to vaccinate based on antibody levels is not going to work.

Thanks for the info. A nice poster emailed me and explained titers to me. I was not trying to vaccinate based on titers. I was under the impression if you checked the antibody levels that would mean the difference between having to get DD a booster shot for certain diseases. Thanks for your post. Most people have given me great information that has been informative. This has been a case of me not fully understanding everything. That being said whether the doctors office tested for titers or not he could have explained what I misunderstood instead of just saying they don't do that and rushing me off of the phone.

[gbailey]

Originally Posted by greersc

I hate to rain on this doctor bashing parade, but just because the first doctor did not give you the answer you were looking for does not mean he was lying. In fact I wonder about the second doctor so easily agreeing to your request.

Many offices will do finger sticks for things like lead, but send patients to a drawing station if they need venipuncture, so this doctor may indeed not draw blood in their office.

The bigger issue is you did not ask for a simple blood test. You asked for 6 different tests. Half of these tests are not done at the typical commercial labs doctors deal with, like Lab Corp, so he was telling you the correct answer that they require special laboratories. The total cost of these tests would be well over $1,000. Are you willing to pay that amount of money for this simple test? What would you do with the results? I am not aware of published antibody levels for each of these items that indicate immunity. A series of vaccines are given to produce higher levels of protective antibodies each dose so that immunity will last for many years. A titer today does not tell you about immunity in several years. How often are you going to repeat these levels?

In my humble, evil doctor, opinion you need to decide if you are going to vaccinate or not. Trying to vaccinate based on antibody levels is not going to work.

forgot to add. he does draw blood in his office. dd's lead taste was not a skin prick taste. they drew blood. i believe the doctor didn't want to be bothered. i don't need to be told what i want to hear but i need the doctor to give me clear and concise answers to questions we have. in this case he lied when he should have said, "your daughter hasn't had a live virus vaccine so we would not test for titers" or whatever his explanation would be. that's all.

[gbailey]

I just wanted to update to say I had consultations with three different doctors. One we won't go to because he is definitely vax on schedule only. He says you can check antibody levels with titers and he finds the test reliable but it's not something he generally does. The other two doctors say they have checked for only a few parents but find the test reliable in most instances. Just an FYI since I griped about this so much before. Thank you.

[gardenmom]

Originally Posted by gbailey

She said while it's not routinely done if a parent requests the tests she would do it but by telling them she does not consider it accurate. She told me, "I want a mom and dad to have peace of mind so if having the test made you feel better we'd do it but since we don't find the results to be exact I'd rather not take blood from your daughter unnecessarily."

I don't really get this statement. She tells you that they'd "rather not take blood unnecessarily" (non invasive, though a momentarily uncomfortable procedure), but are willing to give vaccines (invasive injection of foreign substances into the body) even though titres might show the vaccines aren't necessary. Not really logical...

Glad you're looking for another doctor.

[Gladiolus]

Originally Posted by kidspiration

Thanks so much, you brought up a point that I've always wondered about.

Why aren't vaccinated kids being titre tested to see if the vaccine created an appropriate immune response?

Why aren't vaccinated kids being titre tested at frequent intervals to determine whether the immune response has not diminished over time? Waning immunity from vaccines is a REALITY, but hardly ever addressed. Actually, I prefer to call waning immunity by it's proper medical term, aka secondary vaccine FAILURE.

Your last statement needs clarification. How do you think they actually test a vaccine's efficacy?

Hint hint...they do titre testing.

Imagine that!

Maybe you missed that day of med school?


I'm "just a mom", and even I know that!

Really great questions!

[gbailey]

Originally Posted by gardenmom

I don't really get this statement. She tells you that they'd "rather not take blood unnecessarily" (non invasive, though a momentarily uncomfortable procedure), but are willing to give vaccines (invasive injection of foreign substances into the body) even though titres might show the vaccines aren't necessary. Not really logical...

Glad you're looking for another doctor.

Thanks I did. We found a very good doctor. She's in a different practice than where DD was originally going. Not only did we instantly feel comfortable with her responses to our vax questions, she asked lots of questions about DD which none of the other docs did during the consultation. She believes heavily in trying to treat things naturally first. She even asked if DD is getting her daily dose of Omega 3's and taking vitamin c and d especially during flu season. I believe we hit the jackpot with her.