my 12 yr old DD is driving me crazy!!

[AlmostCrunchyMama]

Hello all,

First let me say, my12 yr old DD is a wonderful person.She has a great heart. She can be kind and conciderate.
Then there are times that I could lock her in her closet.LOL

We have always practiced AP type parenting.We dont hit our kids, I really try not to yell( I yell way to much)

I am at a loss with what to do. We are parenting totally different than our parents did.So they offer no great advice.
I need ideas on what to do when she mouths off, or walks away when I am speaking to her.Or ignores me..GRRRRRRRRRRR
She can be such a crap at times.
She will be screaming at me on moment and the next she wants to sleep in our bed.She started her period last month.It is as if she has PMS all stinking month long
I also have twin 9 year old daughters who are watching her every move.The crappy attitude is leaking into their actions.

Do any of you have any suggestions for good books? I have read everything I can get my hands on....
Thanks !
Peace

[doulamomvicki]

Sigh. No advice, just a . My 12 yr dd can be the most compassionate, considerate, sweetest girl one minute and a crying, screaming, mouthy jerk the next. It is almost like she is caught between being a child and a teenager. We just don't know what to do. She has not started her menses yet. I keep telling my dh and oldest ds to give her some slack - you know she is going to start her period soon. My ds said to me the other day "Mom you have been saying that for 6 months. I am going to make her bleed if she doesn't start soon." I told ds he better not, but in my head I secretly agreed

Anyways, we just keep trying to talk to her calmly (I am a yeller too). I try to do things with her alone. I talk to her friends all the time - just to keep all lines of communication open. I sure these aren't new suggestions. If you find something that works, let me know.

[honey]

I can relate as well! My 13 year old is horrible half the time and completely wonderful the rest of the time. The only advice I can give is to try to talk to her about her icky behavior when she is being sweet and let her know how hard it is for everyone. Also keep reminding her that her mood swings are due to hormones, that sometimes feeling out of control is normal, and give her strategies for dealing with the frustrating feelings.

[seraph]

I have read that red raspberry leaf and red clover tops as a tincture or tea can help menarche-aged girls mellow out some and be easier to live with, but I don't have any direct experience with this.

[Neesie1971]

I have a 10 yr old dh. She is the same way. I yell to much also. But sometimes that’s all that will make her stop. I'm sorry to say, but glad to know I'm not the only one. I have taken to a consoler and that was a waste of time. My dh had her completely hosed. I did not take her back. W went to 4 sessions and I was fed up. The thing that gets me is that if she wants something she is so sweet it's disgusting, but the min. things don't go her way - small or big - she flies of the handle. So she can control it if she wants to.

So over the last month I told her that she needs to stay home with us until she can get some self control. And I've stuck with it. She has improved greatly. Her teacher is nominating her for an award - most improved attitude because she has done so well.

Every time she loses control I send her to her room to calm down and then we talk about what happened her ownership in the out burst and what she should do next time.

I'm not sure if this is why it's improved. I'm just grateful it has.

And every time she wants to go to grandmas for the night or a friends house - I remind her that she can as soon as she can control her anger/attitude better. And also this improvement has to be long term like months - not hours, days or weeks.

Good luck. If anyone else can think of anything I'm open. My almost 4 boy is now coping her behavior. It's really border line abusive the way she has been treating - talking to us.
neesie

[Joyce in the mts.]

HOBOY I remember this well!!!

My dd is now 21, but there was a time....well, your posts echo history very well.

I remember that beginning in third grade, after a tragedy that happened to an acquaintance's family, dd was inconsolable for like 3 days. But the odd thing was, she didn't know the family or the person really, and it was like this HUGE wave of emotion was triggered by the tragedy, and began a pattern I watched develop for months afterward. Her teacher pronounced very insensitively that our dd was just dramatic...and while she was probably correct at least in part, it was not a very nice way to portray my dd to us. I was kind of pissed, but that was a long time ago and I realize that the teacher was just a cold personality, and uncomfortable with any emotion really.

After a couple more times of emotional outburst and drama, I began to wonder, so I marked the calendar because I had a suspicion. And yup, seemed like just about every 28 days like clockwork, there was a huge blowout emotionally with Molly. I am glad I began keeping track right at the get-go, when I intuited I should, because otherwise I might have thought something really serious was going on...and really it is serious physical change going on, and pretty heavy emotionally, but I was able to deal with it much better, and more effectively once I saw the pattern.

After the pattern emerged, I sat down with her and talked to her about it, beginning her education about maturing, menstruation, and cycle of the moon, etc., how special it is, how important it is, etc. She took it all in, and we worked together to try to help mellow things out by taking walks together regularly, keeping the communication going and open, making sure she was getting really good nutrition and making good choices about it when not at home- basically trying to instill a sense of self responsibility for wellbeing about it in her. Awareness and self-awareness; me being aware of what was going on, and her becoming aware of the forces of Nature within her, helped to create a connection between us that continues.

She just recently at 21 gave her most precious gift, her virginity, away to her beloved, a really great guy...and I am not traumatized by it in the least. She told me about it, and I was very very amazed and heartened by what she told me- not that she went into details, but what she found of value in the experience, what she got from it besides the obvious...was really really something. She very wisely and strongly believed in virginity till finding the right guy to share herself with. She held out and wouldn't settle. I am so proud of the value she put on that part of herself. (She took Human Sexuality in College, so she already had made decisions on birth control, etc., herself which she did discuss with me also- very sensible stuff.)

But it was that first preteen experience/discussion of her and Nature's cycles even before the actual physical flow of menstruation itself, that laid firm groundwork for trust, and took our relationship to another level that has only deepened and grown as we have grown together as mother and daughter, since. She has always been able to trust and tell me anything because of it. I am very very happy with that, and proud of her.

(Let me add there have been uncomfortable moments for me in this- I am a mom and there are going to be moments when you just have to trust, even when you wonder. But she never let me down...and at those time, I just acted as if I was confident even if I was worrying. It was the best choice I could have made every time.)

She was friends with this guy since they were Jr.'s in High School nearly 4 years ago, when they were in an exchange student program together and travelled to France- THEY really DO have Paris!...and then gradually just hung out together, and then in the last year began dating regularly, and found their relationship growing in a more serious direction. In the last 6 months they began cohabitating sometimes, growing and refining mental and emotional intimacy BEFORE adding the physical dimension. When it happened, SHE was ready, and there had been no pressure. They are sharing a life together now, living together, working hard, sharing expenses, and happy together. We'll see what happens.

They are finding their way together now and growing together. It's really an amazing thing to watch unfold. I don't know what will come of it, but I just wanted to share with you...what you do now effects what happens later down the road.

It's a beautiful experience to watch them blossom. Time passes so quickly but often feels like it drags on when transformation and growth create waves and temporary disharmony. We may feel battered and tired by it, but taking time now to nurture the woman who is coming to be, will pay off later. Things do get better and you all are doing such good things.

I wish you all the best as you and your daughters find the way together....Joyce in the mts.

[doulamomvicki]

Thanks Joyce! You give me hope. We have really had a rough day here with dd and reading your post was a ray of light.

[ManyPeoplesMama]

My oldest DD will be 13 in April, so I am with you there. You poor dear. Mine recently started her menses and it seems like someone let the top of the bottle at first. She was a hellion, and I mean that in the most loving way possible. She has gone through phases of being intolerable, and then back to her usual, loving self. I don't have any book suggestions, but I do know what you are going through.

[sohj]

Definately sounds like hormones, not to mention all the societal stuff...

...and I wouldn't repeat those years for a-n-y-t-h-i-n-g! :

BUT, if I had to, I've learned some things about herbs that might be able to help it.

Like seraph said, red raspberry leaf and red clover (blossoms and leaves). AND I would also take nettles and oat tops. I would look into pulsatilla vitex (also called chaste tree berry).

I would probably do this by buying Rosemary Gladstar's Women's Herbal or one of Susun Weed's books and giving it to her or showing it to her and talking about all the stuff going on in her body right now. I would choose the herbs with her...going over the descriptions of their actions and indications. (Learning about health and taking care of yourself at this stage is so important, I felt physically miserable for much of my adolescence....aside from the hormones.)

I would also get her a copy of Our Bodies, Our Selves. My mother gave it to me when I was 10 or so (can't quite remember) and I found it fascinating.

Hope this helps.

[3boysmom]

Well, I have no daughters, but boys of this age (roughly 10-15) certainly have challenges of their own! One book that I really like and refer to when I feel the need for some encouragement or perspective is called "Our Last Best Shot" by Laura Sessions Stepp. Sometimes it helps just to sit with a cup of tea and read bits of it.

[Neesie1971]

i just thought you would like to look at this - www.notmilk.com

my neighbor found it. the one w that is allergic. its very interesting and the documentation has been published in medical journals all over.

good luck
neesie

[Amandzia]

I just had to tell you that my 12 yr old daughter read this post and said, "I guess all girls my age are the same."

Well, I guess it's a normal phase and they grow out of it. That comforts me...well, not maybe when we're in the middle of a dispute, but afterwards.

[Celtain]

I AM NOT ALONE!!!!!!!!! It is so good to see this. Sorry to be so happy about the stuff that you are going through, but, I AM TOO!!! One day it will be like the good fairy came down and kissed her good morning. Other days it is like that angel of darkness beat her awake with the ugly stick!!!!! She has had her period for about a year now and she is starting to get it under control. But, oh boy, there are days. Good luck I hope it evens out for all of us soon!!!

[13moons]

My dd is only 9.5, but fully in the throes of puberty already with mood swings in addition to the physical changes too. I just picked up a copy of Moon Mother, Moon Daughter by Janet Lucy and Terri Allison that looks like it will be a great resource for us both (dd and I, that is) through this period of her life. (It's been recomended by Mothering before on this site and in the magazine.) At any rate, it might be worth taking a look at.
Joyce in the mts.--what a great idea to track the emotional tides--I had never thought of that, but I will definitely do that now! Thanks!

[mwanamaker0209]

Hello,

Your daughter sounds like mine.. Read my post. I can't figure out the moodswings and the drama either.

The yelling is getting out of hand on my end too. Sometimes I wish I could just change her back in the sweet 4 yearold she use to be.

Mine has a heart of gold, and then in the next 10 minutes there goes the horns peeking thru her hair and she has a pitchfork in her hand.

I just don't get it. Honey, I don't think there is a book out there. It only tells you the analytical way of dealing with it. I reccommend a lot of love guidance and especially patience..and most of all listen.....please listen to her..She might say you never do...because I hear that from my end too.

[EnviroBecca]

As a developmental psychologist, I have to say: Early adolescence is the time of greatest change in the brain's structure since infancy! After 10-12 years of having a relatively stable brain and just adding new information to it, a teenager is suddenly trying to live with a brain that's changing rapidly to a more adult arrangement. This takes some adjustment, as mental processes try to take new paths and sometimes wind up in the wrong places. Also, the parts of the cortex that trigger emotions and interpret other people's behavior are developing rapidly. It's no wonder teenagers sometimes react in ways that seem inappropriate to people with finished comfortable brains!

Think about how you feel when you're learning to use a new computer. A lot of features are different, and you're so accustomed to pulling down the third menu to the fifth option to do that one thing that you don't exactly remember what the thing is called, and now it's NOT THERE; it's hidden in some other STUPID place!! This is a brand new fantabulous computer; how can it be slowing you down? You've got work to do! You wind up simultaneously cursing the computer and everyone involved in its design, and feeling really stupid and desperate because it seems like you ought to be able to understand it. And God help the well-meaning person who leans over your shoulder and says, "Oh, it's in the Format menu---don't you remember, I showed you last week?" Well, that is pretty much the situation for a teenager and her OWN BRAIN!

"Frontline" on PBS did an excellent episode about adolescent brain research. Watch for re-runs!

I don't mean to deny that hormones play a role in teen girls' behavior. My point is that new hormones are only one of many things happening in their brains!

[mwanamaker0209]

Thank you for the information, its good to know these things> I feel as though I am losing my mine sometimes, and I don't understand. I know I was a teen once. But it seems different from what I went thru. I don't remember the crying spells or the arguing. Maybe I held it in. I really don't know. But now I know. Alot of patience and understanding is good also. I find that helps. Sometimes I have to go for punishments but that also has to fit the crime. Everyone has a bad day. Today is a good day....she seems to be my sweet pea again...But oh, then there is tomorrow. (smile)

[art4babies]

I have a 12 yo daughter, and have found the only things that REALLY works is what I have read about in several places and talked to psychologists about: the reason that yelling doesn't work (unless you threaten their lives, which isn't recommended) and why your getting angry sometimes just provokes them, is that they are learning that they are having an affect on you and it empowers them. There is a solution that is relatively simple and you see a responses if you ARE CONSISTENT. It just takes some self-discipline on your part. So here it is: act understanding and CALM. Whatever you do, don't argue or try to reason with them. You should be the top dog. Although they deserve a reasonable explanation of what it is that they should be doing, DON'T OFFER THEM ANYTHING MORE. Repeat (yourself) as needed, but stay firm and always calm. When they see this new behavior in you, initially they may not respond differently, but if you are consistent they will see that they are powerless and realize it isn't worth their efforts. Also, you need to always have a punishment that is relative to the crime. But consistency and calmness is the key. This was really hard for me to train myself for, but it really worked and I saw positive results, even within a week

[Dar]

I've never believed in punishments, and I see no reason to start now.

I do think early/pre-teens like to know that they have an impact on the world. This is the age when many of Rain's friends are chosing social causes and talking very earnestly about them, and they take themselves very, very seriously. I don't think convincing them that they are powerless would help.

IME, the kids who are doing better are the kids who have some real responsibilities in their lives, some place where they're expected to be competent. For Rain it's theatre, for another friend it's her daily paper route, and for a third it's gymnastics, whch she pratices 9 hours a week. I spend a lot of time with girls between 11 and 14 who are active in community theatre, and I think it good for the - they're in shows with adults and are expected to show the same level of responsibility, and they do.

I think hormones are part of it, too - I know those hormones have an effect on me, and when you're 12 they're new and bouncing all over the place. Rain and I talk about how things like hunger and fatigue and hormones can make you feel certain ways, and although the feelings are real you wouldn't necessarily feel the same way otherwise.

I try to give Rain space when she's being rude or histrionic, but I also try to tell her that I don't like being talked to in that way. I also try to remember that when she's acting that way, she's feeling unhappy, and she needs *more* nurturing, not less.

Dar

[art4babies]

"I don't think convincing them that they are powerless would help."

In my post, I didn't mean to imply that youtry to convince they are powerless. Rather, I mean that you should't give them the power to control you emotionally. I thought I should clarify this, as there is a HUGE difference.