Feeling like I'm at such a loss....

[MyZoeJane]

Not circumcising the baby boy my husband and I are expecting in September is going to cost me my marriage.

I've tried EVERYTHING and given all the information/explainations I can give and my husband still insists that being circumcised is what is best for our son. And he gives the usual lame, unscientific, emotionally charged arguments that you'd think a man who's pro-circ would give.

It's stressing me out so much and affecting my pregnancy to the point where I had to tell him today that I simply cannot discuss it anymore and that a judge would have to decide for our son because I would not let it happen for as long as I could stop it.

<sigh> Just when I think I couldnt' possibly muster up any more tears, they keep on flowing....

[A&A]

Stay strong, mama.


Here are two links for YOU to read. (DO NOT show them to your dh.)

http://www.noharmm.org/feminist.htm

http://www.udonet.com/circumcision/v...ty_of_men.html

[mi.birthdoula]

Definitely stay strong mama. You still have time yet, and he may surprise you. I thought I was going to have to walk down the same road, but I would just give him a little info than back off and let it stew and simmer, then add some more on top at a later date. Eventually he sat down and actually looked at info about it online with me, and he watched the Penn and Teller Video. It was almost like a light bulb went off instantly, and he changed his whole stance on it.
Sometimes it just takes time, and remember you are doing what is best for your baby, and he will thank you for it someday.

[eepster]

Let the subject drop for now. Simply refuse to sign the consent at the hospital and don't let the baby go anywhere near a Drs office without you. (If you are having a hospital birth, be prepared for pressure to circ from them as well.)

If you drop it, he will probably drop it. When you bring it up he needs to defend circumcision. He will not agree with you, but he also probably won't care enough to keep bringing it up himself. Once you simply drop the subject he can relax and forget about it. So, stoop looking for agreement, concent, permission, etc to not circ you DS, and just don't do it.

If he does choose to continue to bring it up, tell him to go find proof that there is a reason to do it, not just old myths he remebers. (If he actually brings you anything just come here and we will give you sensible valid info as to why it isn't a real reason.)

Do not engage in any arguements unless he does research.

Making sure that every medical provider anywhere in driving distance knows that you will sue thm if they circ you DS without a court order, is a good idea too.

[perspective]

Originally Posted by MyZoeJane

Not circumcising the baby boy my husband and I are expecting in September is going to cost me my marriage.

I've tried EVERYTHING and given all the information/explainations I can give and my husband still insists that being circumcised is what is best for our son. And he gives the usual lame, unscientific, emotionally charged arguments that you'd think a man who's pro-circ would give.

It's stressing me out so much and affecting my pregnancy to the point where I had to tell him today that I simply cannot discuss it anymore and that a judge would have to decide for our son because I would not let it happen for as long as I could stop it.

<sigh> Just when I think I couldnt' possibly muster up any more tears, they keep on flowing....

Everyone is right. You need to just drop the issue, he knows your side, and how strongly you feel. Continuing now is just like butting heads. If your having a hospital birth make sure the hospital knows if they circ him while your out of it, you'll sue.

Dont feel too bad now, your both just frustrated. Time heals most of these circ arguments. By the time the baby is born there will be so many things for you and your husband to worry about (and pay for) there will little time to think about circumcision.

But if he ever does bring it up to you during the pregnancy, make the conversation simple: Tell him this is not his decision, but his sons "Its his body, and his choice. There is no reason to even talk about this now, because this is a decision only he can make."

[MyZoeJane]

Thanks ladies... I feel better this morning, though I had a difficult time falling asleep. I appreciate the advice to just let the issue rest and stop seeking agreement. That is what I decided last night to do. I told him that it would be our son's decision to make and if what DH is saying is REALLY true and that being circ'ed is sooooo much better, then our son will make that decision for himself and DH will "win" in the end.


He CAN'T force circumcision onto our baby and I will make sure the hospital is aware that I will take legal action if they circ against my wishes. But I don't think DH would go that far. Though I had a nightmare about it, I just don't think he'd overrule me like that. But I'll make my wishes known tot he hospital and doctors nonetheless. I thought about also bringing two little circular notes to put in the baby's bassinet that say "NO CIRC" and "NO HEB B." DH wouldn't remove them because he knows I'd have a fit.

It's SO heart wrenching partly because this has made me lose SO MUCH respect for my husband. It makes him seem as though he has no intelligence and is just an idiot who can't see the forest through the trees. I mean, in light of allllll the evidence refuting it, what kind of intelligent person actually believes that circumcision is better? I'm stumped. But I'm trying to feel his emotional attachment to the idea to try to get an idea as to why he's let logic fly right out the window.

Anyhow, I do think that if I drop the subject, he will not bring it up. I made it very clear to him that for the sake of my health and sanity I was not going to entertain any more discussion of the topic unless it was the result of him coming to me with his own research and his own arguments that were NOT predicated by the unfair assumption that our child was going to be dirty or sexually primiscuous. (Negating the ridiculous "cleaner" and "cancer")arguments that Ia m so tired of refuting.)

Soooo... time to stop resenting this baby for being a boy. Time to stop being disappointed that I didn't get the girl I was hoping for so I could avoid all of this. It's simply a bridge I am going to have to cross when I come to it.

Thanks again... if anyone has any more advice for me, I still need it! As you can imagine fromt he length of this post, keeping my mouth shut is going to be a feat in itself.

[bajamergrrl]

MyZoeJane, I can empathize because my DH is the same way. I second letting the subject drop. Once I did that everything has gone much more smoothly. He still gets grumpy occasionally when circ is brought up in the media but I just don't engage him in arguments about it. I think he's either gotten or getting to the point where he realizes that he's not going to change my mind and this baby, should it be a boy, will not get snipped.

[eli's mama]

I don't really have any advice, just wanted to offer a
Stay strong!

[Ann-Marita]

I have two thoughts.

First, if this issue really does lead to your marriage being destroyed, then all the more reason to protect your son. If you keep him intact, and it damages your marriage, well then, at least your son has his genital integrity. But if you allow him to be circed, this issue will still damage your marriage, and your son's genitals will have been sacrificed for no reason.

Second, the onus is on your husband to come up with valid medical reasons why circ is not just acceptable, but necessary. If it's not absolutely necessary, then the owner of the penis (your son) gets to decide if he wants the more sensitive part cut off. There IS no "absolutely necessary" reason to circ. Whatever medical "reason" your husband comes up with, those on this board will be able to give you arguments against it.

[FernG]

Originally Posted by MyZoeJane

He CAN'T force circumcision onto our baby and I will make sure the hospital is aware that I will take legal action if they circ against my wishes. But I don't think DH would go that far. Though I had a nightmare about it, I just don't think he'd overrule me like that. But I'll make my wishes known tot he hospital and doctors nonetheless. I thought about also bringing two little circular notes to put in the baby's bassinet that say "NO CIRC" and "NO HEB B." DH wouldn't remove them because he knows I'd have a fit.

You are such a strong woman. I'm so sorry that you are going through this. You are right to protect your son b/c your lack of respect for your husband would only grow more strong if you allowed your husband to circ your baby. I agree with you that you should just not discuss it and don't let it happen.

Be sure that you amend the hospital consent forms to say that you do not consent to circ (and vaccination). You can just write it on the forms and initial it. The cards for the bassinet are a good idea, too. You can even write it on your DS's diapers. Nurses just get into a routine for newborn care and mistakes happen.

You sound very educated about circ, so I'm sure you know that for most women, the battle doesn't stop after birth because so many doctors come up with so many false reasons for circ - phimosis, ballooning, poorly-managed infection, scar tissue from forced premature retraction for cleaning or catheters, "delayed" retractability, UTI, etc.

[GoodMomma]

Have you showed him a video on how it's done?

[robertandenith]

I agree with pp, he will come around...



I had the same battle just about a year ago, and I after I showed him the Penn & Teller bullshit episode, he changed his mind.

I believe there is one point when they just don't want to hear about it : But you know what! Stay strong! I am so glad to know you are going to let anyone cut your son!!!

[Night_Nurse]

Has he watched the Penn and Teller Bullsh!t video on circ? Maybe have him watch that and let it drop. Then he'll have a few months to let the info soak in.
I'm so sorry you're going through this difficulty. Thanks for protecting your baby and giving him the choice to decide one day.

[MyZoeJane]

Originally Posted by GoodMomma

Have you showed him a video on how it's done?

I have sent him links and told him it is his responsibility to watch them if he plans to think for even a SECOND that he is "educated" about circumcision.

I sent him the Penn and Teller YouTube link before we conceived (because that was when I brought up the circ issue. I told him that NO CIRC was a condition of us trying for another) but I doubt he watched it. I am now assuming that although he has not AGREED with me, he DID consent to conception, so by proxy he agreed to the circ! Hey a judge would agree!

I think I'll let things cool off for a month or two and then I'll sit down to watch the Penn and Teller segment with him. He just downloaded some program so we can surf the net through our Wii system... so we can even sit on the couch and watch the YouTube video on our big flat screen. That ought to give it more "man appeal"! LOL

[MyZoeJane]

Anyone have the Penn and Teller link handy? I didn' bookmark it after I watched it...

[PuppyFluffer]

My pm box is full, can you please email me. I have some things I would like to share with you. You can email me through MDC. Just mouse over my user name and click the email option.

[InDaPhunk]

Originally Posted by MyZoeJane

It's SO heart wrenching partly because this has made me lose SO MUCH respect for my husband. It makes him seem as though he has no intelligence and is just an idiot who can't see the forest through the trees. I mean, in light of allllll the evidence refuting it, what kind of intelligent person actually believes that circumcision is better? I'm stumped. But I'm trying to feel his emotional attachment to the idea to try to get an idea as to why he's let logic fly right out the window.

Picture your DH as a newborn, when he was the one that needed protecting. The DS that you'll soon have was once your DH, except he was alone, unprotected, hurt, crying and mutilated. Someone allowed it to be done to him . It makes my heart break to think of my DH going through that. If I had a time machine.... .

It must be very, very painful for them to face what was done to them without their consent. If it were me, I'd be *very* angry, and when we're angry, we're seldom logical .

Good for you for protecting your DS. Just stick to your guns. After DS is born, DH will probably get over it (and may come around to see your POV). Until then, it may not be fun for you (or for DH), but just get through it the best you can and post here whenever you need to . GL.

[pigpokey]

Can you find a pro-intact pediatrician? A pro-intact ob/gyn or cnm or family practitioner for the birth?

If all your providers tell him it's a dumb idea, that will pretty much be it.

He will probably come around.

[PinkinPA]

I read this book back when I was pg with ds who is now 7. I think it was called "40 reasons not to circ." Well, anyway, it had this statistic that refuted the cancer arguement for circing. It stated that the breast cancer rate was some huge percent higher than penile cancer, so with this logic, women should be lining up to lop off their boobs "just incase". Shut my DH up real quick.

[Galatea]

Originally Posted by MyZoeJane

It's SO heart wrenching partly because this has made me lose SO MUCH respect for my husband. It makes him seem as though he has no intelligence and is just an idiot who can't see the forest through the trees. I mean, in light of allllll the evidence refuting it, what kind of intelligent person actually believes that circumcision is better? I'm stumped. But I'm trying to feel his emotional attachment to the idea to try to get an idea as to why he's let logic fly right out the window.

He isn't a bad or stupid man. It's just that if you are right, then there is something really wrong with his penis, and he is missing an awesome part of his genitals. If your son doesn't need to be circ'ed, then he didn't have to be, either. It's a really depressing fact to have to confront. Leave him alone and he will eventually come to terms with it on his own. IME, men like this often end up being the best intactivists eventually. They just have to go through the stages of grief (and he is in denial now.)

BTW, I wrote "NO CIRC" on my son's onesie and diapers while in the hospital, and told everyone who walked into my room. I also accompanied him to the nursery and anywhere else they took him.