Mothering › Mothering Discussion Forums › Health › Vaccinations › I'm Not Vaccinating › Older generation with that scar
New Posts  All Forums:
 

Older generation with that scar - Page 2

post #21 of 49
As a point of historical interest, here is Lady Mary Wortely Montagu's description of smallpox inoculation (she called it "engrafting") from a letter she wrote to a friend in 1717. Note her description of the procedure and its effects and her prediction of the likely reaction of European doctors to the practice.

From http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/mod/m...smallpox.html:
Quote:
A propos of distempers, I am going to tell you a thing, that will make you wish yourself here. The small-pox, so fatal, and so general amongst us, is here entirely harmless, by the invention of engrafting, which is the term they give it. There is a set of old women, who make it their business to perform the operation, every autumn, in the month of September, when the great heat is abated. People send to one another to know if any of their family has a mind to have the small-pox; they make parties for this purpose, and when they are met (commonly fifteen or sixteen together) the old woman comes with a nut-shell full of the matter of the best sort of small-pox, and asks what vein you please to have opened. She immediately rips open that you offer to her, with a large needle (which gives you no more pain than a common scratch) and puts into the vein as much matter as can lie upon the head of her needle , and after that, binds up the little wound with a hollow bit of shell, and in this manner opens four or five veins. The Grecians have commonly the superstition of opening one in the middle of the forehead, one in each arm, and one on the breast, to mark the sign of the Cross; but this has a very ill effect, all these wounds leaving little scars, and is not done by those that are not superstitious, who chuse to have them in the legs, or that part of the arm that is concealed. The children or young patients play together all the rest of the day, and are in perfect health to the eighth. Then the fever begins to seize them, and they keep their beds two days, very seldom three. They have very rarely above twenty or thirty in their faces, which never mark, and in eight days time they are as well as before their illness. Where they are wounded, there remains running sores during the distemper, which I don't doubt is a great relief to it. Every year, thousands undergo this operation, and the French Ambassador says pleasantly, that they take the small-pox here by way of diversion, as they take the waters in other countries. There is no example of any one that has died in it, and you may believe I am well satisfied of the safety of this experiment, since I intend to try it on my dear little son. I am patriot enough to take the pains to bring this useful invention into fashion in England, and I should not fail to write to some of our doctors very particularly about it, if I knew any one of them that I thought had virtue enough to destroy such a considerable branch of their revenue, for the good of mankind. But that distemper is too beneficial to them, not to expose to all their resentment, the hardy wight that should undertake to put an end to it. Perhaps if I live to return, I may, however, have courage to war with them. Upon this occasion, admire the heroism in the heart of

Your friend, etc. etc.
post #22 of 49
Interesting, both my parents have the scar.


I have the BCG scar
post #23 of 49
I'm 40 and have the scar. However, my mom had read that a LOT of the scarring comes about because it itches like the dickens and when small children received the vax they would scratch it, which would make it worse and leave a nasty scar. She had them put it on my right shoulder where as a small child, I was unable to reach it. The scar is so little DH didn't even realize I had one. My grandmother on the other hand, had it on her arm and it left a large crater-like scar.
post #24 of 49
It seems there are two separate scars/vaccines being talked about here...the one on the upper left arm for smallpox. They stopped giving this one around the early 70s.

Then there's the BCG vaccine, which looks to be for tuberculosis. Perhaps this one was done other places than the upper left arm...? They don't seem to give this one too often, unless there are driving reasons to...like for a small child that can't be separated from a person who has TB.

ETA: In the US they don't give the BCG vaccine too often. Elsewhere apparently it's still common to give BCG. I've also discovered that the BCG vaccine is supposed to cause a person to react positively to a TB test. This was a point mentioned in one paper I read, that it would be impossible to determine actual TB infection rates in a population if everyone or almost everyone had the BCG vaccine.
post #25 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by KimPM View Post
It seems there are two separate scars/vaccines being talked about here...the one on the upper left arm for smallpox. They stopped giving this one around the early 70s.

Then there's the BCG vaccine, which looks to be for tuberculosis. Perhaps this one was done other places than the upper left arm...? They don't seem to give this one too often, unless there are driving reasons to...like for a small child that can't be separated from a person who has TB.
I have both. And both, including my smallpox scar, are barely detectable. The interesting thing (at least for me) is I needed to have the smallpox done twice because it didn't take the first time and barely took the second time. I don't know if this is related, but I could never get a clinical dose of chicken pox either despite countless exposures both as a child and adult.

I was born and raised in the UK, and I got the BCG at around 12 years old, administered at my boarding school on my upper right arm (smallpox is on my left arm). This was a routine vaccination at the time. My eldest dd was born in Hong Kong and got the BCG vaccination as a newborn administered in the hospital, and she also had a scar from it. And yes, it is for TB, but it completely and utterly useless. I actually think it is worse than useless because it caused me to have chronic sore throats and glandular issues from when I got it to my early twenties.
post #26 of 49
I had the smallpox vaccine, but not the BCG. Was receiving BCG perhaps a local thing? I don't think any of my friends/family had BCG, but we all had a smallpox vax. Most of my contemporaries have a visible scar, but you can't even see mine.
post #27 of 49
They still give Smallpox vaccines to military going to Iraq (possibly Afghanistan too). DH managed to dodge that one twice.
post #28 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by PinkinPA View Post
BCG-yes, my mom's looks like a bunch of small needles in a deep circle shaped scar. What does BCG stand for?
My mother has one of these also
post #29 of 49
Dh has a small pox scar - older generation lol. That made me laugh, I will have to share that with him . No, its not from military service. He got his in grade school.

Engrafting sounds disgusting. They were really lucky they didn't spread all sorts of other diseases doing that.
post #30 of 49
Given that the letter was written in the early 18th century, I'm not sure that Europeans would have noticed that they were spreading diseases other than smallpox with the practice. Modern standards of hygiene didn't yet exist for people or medical instruments. A lot of the diseases you can get from small wounds are less deadly than smallpox.
post #31 of 49
I'm 26 years old, grew up in the US, and I have what looks like a vaccine scar on top of my left shoulder (as in, not on my arm). What on earth might that be from?
post #32 of 49
My sister was the among the last group to get it. she will be forty in july. I do not have one.
Her ped, though, at the time, thought it would be unsightly to put that scar on her arm so he gave her hte shot somewhere it could not be seen.
post #33 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sasharna View Post
I'm 26 years old, grew up in the US, and I have what looks like a vaccine scar on top of my left shoulder (as in, not on my arm). What on earth might that be from?
a chicken pox scar? a mole removal?
post #34 of 49
My DH is 26 and he has the small-pox vaccine scar. He was born in Bosnia, so I guess that's why...
post #35 of 49
My mother's is perfectly round, like a hollow hole punch. My grandfather's is large and diffuse and less deep.

I don't know when mom had hers, but I *think* grandpa got his in the Navy (WWII).

If I remember, I'll attack the arms of my elders when they visit for DS's bday party in two weeks. I'll take copious notes and ask tricky questions.
post #36 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by fruitfulmomma View Post
We were trying to watch John Adams (HBO Mini Series) and there was a scene in it where Abigail was having herself and the children inoculated with it. It made me want to :Puke
That was pretty bad. And one child got really sick from it. That must be some terrible mama guilt. There's other scary medical stuff too, if you get to the end of it.
post #37 of 49
So what is the round one with all the little dots in it? I got confused with the thread

What does BCG stand for by the way?

Dh is 42 and has the big round one with the little holes in the middle. I do not have and I am 37 just missed it apparently.

My mom and dad and most of the older folks I know have it as well.
post #38 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by MCatLvrMom2A&X View Post
So what is the round one with all the little dots in it? I got confused with the thread

What does BCG stand for by the way?

Dh is 42 and has the big round one with the little holes in the middle. I do not have and I am 37 just missed it apparently.

My mom and dad and most of the older folks I know have it as well.
As I posted earlier, apparently there are two separate scars/vaccines being talked about here...smallpox and BCG (for tuberculosis). It seems that each person can have a slightly different scarring reaction (to either vax), so for some of us the scar is obvious while for others it's barely noticeable. Looks like both vaxes may have been given in various parts of the (usually upper) body, so that's not a separating factor either. Sounds like it may be difficult to tell just by external examination which vax it is, but other circumstantial factors might give it away...such as current age and age when immunized, as well as location (some areas give the BCG regularly while others do not), and service in the military. Of course, some people remember getting the vax and know precisely what it was for.

From Wikipedia:

"Bacillus Calmette-Guérin (or Bacille Calmette-Guérin, BCG) is a vaccine against tuberculosis that is prepared from a strain of the attenuated (weakened) live bovine tuberculosis bacillus, Mycobacterium bovis, that has lost its virulence in humans by being specially cultured in an artificial medium for years. The bacilli have retained enough strong antigenicity to become a somewhat effective vaccine for the prevention of human tuberculosis. At best, the BCG vaccine is 80% effective in preventing tuberculosis for a duration of 15 years, however, its protective effect appears to vary according to geography."

This explains why you'd react positively to a TB test, because actually then, you have been infected with TB bacteria.

Reading up more on it, the effectiveness of the BCG vaccine can vary from 0% to 80% according to some papers.
post #39 of 49
By the time I was born, small pox was off the schedule in CT anyway)...but my mother being a peds nurse had our ped order it for my brother and I...my scar is on my thigh.
post #40 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by uccomama View Post
I don't know if this is related, but I could never get a clinical dose of chicken pox either despite countless exposures both as a child and adult.
Same here. One of my doctors drew a titer on me when I was pregnant, and it showed immunity despite never having actually suffered through CP.

I am 38 and have a smallpox vaccine scar on my upper left arm. My mom tells me that they weren't required anymore by the time I was born, but we lived in a very tiny, midwestern town and they just continued giving the vaccine until it was all used up.

My baby book says that I was four months old when I got it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Full Heart View Post
Dh has a small pox scar - older generation lol. That made me laugh.
Me, too. I don't think of myself as "the older generation" just yet.
New Posts  All Forums:
 
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: I'm Not Vaccinating
Mothering › Mothering Discussion Forums › Health › Vaccinations › I'm Not Vaccinating › Older generation with that scar