"My husband says we will circ. for cleanliness" ACK!

[guestmama9917]

I have ANOTHER pregnant friend (i am just at that stage in life, i guess, eventhough i am not pregnant, everyone else is!) who plans on circ'ing their son. She has been my friend for 15 years, but we live far apart now, I was the first one she told after she got pregnant besides her DH. She has asked me lots of questions about breastfeeding and natural birth BUT I casually asked her about circumsizing if she had a son and this was her answer. "My husband says we will circumsize for CLEANLINESS" (she really emphasized that word when she said it).

I asked if she wanted me to send her some reading on this, or if she knew that was a myth and she said, she was leaving the decision up to him.

I am so frustrated! She has emailed me twice and called a left a message asking where I have been lately and I just don't want to talk to her about her pregnancy anymore. Am I being irrational here?

[FernG]

If she wanted to cut her girl for "cleanliness" no one would think you were irrational for being too upset to see her.

Have you read some of the vintage, Western medical journal articles about parents needing to aggressively clean their baby girls' gentiles and retract the female foreskin? They even advised female circ if girls weren't "retractable" by a certain age and/or for "phimosis." Now that sounds crazy, but 60 years ago, it was reasonable.

[Bm31]

Originally Posted by courtrn

Am I being irrational here?

No, wanting to cut up a child for such a bogus reason is what is irrational.

[guestmama9917]

She literally shut down that conversation and changed the topic.

I should add that this friend is very emotional, sensitive and insecure. I love her, but this isjust who she is...she can't handle anything negative really...she grew up in a family that just yells and yells and yells and they never, ever discussed feelings ( i have witnessed this) and that has made her extremely sensitive.

I just don't know how much I should push...my DH (who is circ'd, doesn't see the big deal with it because he hasn't really looked into it, but wholeheartedly agrees with not circ'ing if we have a son, because he knows how strongly I feel about it.) tells me I have to let it go, and that I am being a little 'crazy' about it. :

[LavenderMae]

No, you aren't being irrational. I would still send her information or discuss it directly with her. At the very least you'll know you tried.

[BlessedMommy2006]

I don't blame you. I would be upset too. I'm not all that great at talking to people about circ, so I pray that all my pregnant friends have girls.

I noticed that you are in Canada. If your friend also lives in Canada, she will have to pay OOP for her son's circ, as Canada de-insured it some time ago.

[4Blessings]

If you value your friendship with her you will leave her alone about it. Send her a copy of a book that you value (Sears or whatever you think would provide info) and let her read it. Than decide to let it go. Or let her go.

[JaneSmith1010]

Your friend doesn't sound like she is trying to be very involved...that is a foreign concept to me and so i do not know how to react. It is a parent's right, unfortunately, to do this to their child. That being said, I have very educated friends that have circ both their children. I make no beef about it because they are not my children. I have already exhausted myself watching what some will do and not do as parents. I am to the point where I focus on my business and have to (for my sanity) blow off the rest.
Thate being said......Ok, if you have an ,uncirc child or have had an uncirc partner, you know that it is not unclean at all. It is much more 'normal' than uncirc IMO. It would have to be from experience that you really learn this. Perhaps she could make a deal with him that she will not circ at birth but wait until their child is old enough to express a preference (ha!), or unless there comes a medically based necessity. I am guessing she is really neutral or for circ but knows/feels you are not and so decided to let him shoulder the responsibiltiy. I have found that people seek out the information they want to know and in many cases they resent/resist when info comes in any other way (teach as if you taught them not, with things unknown learned as things forgot --quote RWE).

[bubbamummy]

No, i dont think youre being irrational, my bestfriend did the same thing....I cant even talk to her about it anymore as the whole sitaution makes me upset!

[perspective]

Originally Posted by courtrn

I have ANOTHER pregnant friend (i am just at that stage in life, i guess, eventhough i am not pregnant, everyone else is!) who plans on circ'ing their son. She has been my friend for 15 years, but we live far apart now, I was the first one she told after she got pregnant besides her DH. She has asked me lots of questions about breastfeeding and natural birth BUT I casually asked her about circumsizing if she had a son and this was her answer. "My husband says we will circumsize for CLEANLINESS" (she really emphasized that word when she said it).

I asked if she wanted me to send her some reading on this, or if she knew that was a myth and she said, she was leaving the decision up to him.

I am so frustrated! She has emailed me twice and called a left a message asking where I have been lately and I just don't want to talk to her about her pregnancy anymore. Am I being irrational here?

At the very least I think your being irrational about feeling like you cant respond. Here you have a friend who has said they are going to circumcise, but its not even her, its her husband that wants this.
You seem to be on very friendly terms with this person.

Your ability to give her the right information, and for her to accept that information (and in the end causing her son to stay intact) is strong. You should not be cutting off communication with her! You should be talking to her more. How will she know anything unless you say something.

You are not being irrational with your need to help her. I know she may get emotional about stuff, but as her friend you have a RESPONSIBILITY to at the very least present her with the correct information.

[guestmama9917]

Originally Posted by perspective

At the very least I think your being irrational about feeling like you cant respond. Here you have a friend who has said they are going to circumcise, but its not even her, its her husband that wants this.
You seem to be on very friendly terms with this person.

Your ability to give her the right information, and for her to accept that information (and in the end causing her son to stay intact) is strong. You should not be cutting off communication with her! You should be talking to her more. How will she know anything unless you say something.

You are not being irrational with your need to help her. I know she may get emotional about stuff, but as her friend you have a RESPONSIBILITY to at the very least present her with the correct information.

i think you have made a very good point here. i think deep down i know that i am bringing my own personal feelings into this more than i should (ie, i want a baby) i am on very friendly terms, she is my oldest, closest friend, but we are extremely different that is all.

i emailed her back and recommended a few articles, some on circ, some on breastfeeding, vaccines. so, i'm hoping this will open it up for her to talk to her husband about his views.

i thought i might add, she has only been with her husband in that way so she has never seen an intact penis and after her wedding night (they waited to kiss on the lips until they were married, which i respect fully) she was describing his penis to me (mortified, to be sharing this but totally overwhelmed with the male anatomy) and asking me if he was circ'd and if he penis was normal (he is circ'd from what she describes, but his penis is crooked). she is very naive, because she is very shy to talk about this, so even discussing a penis is very difficult for her.

[Ann-Marita]

Crooked penis can be a complication of infant circ. Does she know this?

[perspective]

Originally Posted by Ann-Marita

Crooked penis can be a complication of infant circ. Does she know this?

Yeah, but most penises have some type of natural curve to them.

[perspective]

Originally Posted by courtrn

i think you have made a very good point here. i think deep down i know that i am bringing my own personal feelings into this more than i should (ie, i want a baby) i am on very friendly terms, she is my oldest, closest friend, but we are extremely different that is all.

i emailed her back and recommended a few articles, some on circ, some on breastfeeding, vaccines. so, i'm hoping this will open it up for her to talk to her husband about his views.

i thought i might add, she has only been with her husband in that way so she has never seen an intact penis and after her wedding night (they waited to kiss on the lips until they were married, which i respect fully) she was describing his penis to me (mortified, to be sharing this but totally overwhelmed with the male anatomy) and asking me if he was circ'd and if he penis was normal (he is circ'd from what she describes, but his penis is crooked). she is very naive, because she is very shy to talk about this, so even discussing a penis is very difficult for her.

You obviously know your friend, but if she is a shy/emotional person then I think for now she is going to need a "role model" on this issue. She needs you to be a bit more bold, and have a focused talk on circumcision, and try not to hide it within other issues. You need to tell her why this is important, and be a guide, because if she is ever going to bring this up with her DH she is going to need to feel more confident in it, and she can find that in your example.

[robertandenith]

can you send her the video Circumcision Decision?
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...65256830319025

[eepster]

As long as she is keeping the door of communication open, then you should try to walk through it.

Find the approach that you are comfortable with, and she will most likely be responsive to and go for it.

[onelilguysmommy]

ask her to ask him if he wants to rip off his fingernails and clean underneath to make sure theyre clean if she says soemthing like he said its being done to be clean, especially emphasized like that. it doesnt sound like she thinks that way unless shes blaming the dh?

seriously, the next person who tells me my boys are funny looking or dirty, im saying that!

[dancindoula]

Originally Posted by onelilguysmommy

ask her to ask him if he wants to rip off his fingernails and clean underneath to make sure theyre clean if she says soemthing like he said its being done to be clean, especially emphasized like that. it doesnt sound like she thinks that way unless shes blaming the dh?

seriously, the next person who tells me my boys are funny looking or dirty, im saying that!

Either that or ask if she intends to scrub underneath her son's eyelids with soap and a washrag, since that is the same type of tissue they would be amputating in her son's surgery.

On a side note, I have found that people around me really start to process the reality of what they are doing a bit more when I refuse to refer to the "procedure" as anything other than surgery (or sometimes cosmetic surgery or amputative surgery, depending on the situation). Overall, it's a pretty casual/non-inflammatory word but when they hear me saying things like "just be sure that the doctor performs a full dorsal block for anesthesia during your son's surgery" or "after his surgery be aware that any urine or fecal matter will be a big infection risk on his open wound so you have to stay right on top of keeping it clean." Once they start to clue in to phrases like "surgery", "wound care" or "post-operative complications" at least one tiny lightbulb starts to glow above their heads. Sometimes that's all it takes to get them thinking.

[MommaLauraRN]

I would tell her, "We bathe for cleanliness." Maybe I'm just too lazy to remove armpits, butts, ears, teeth, feet and anything else that freshens right up with a little soap and water!

[Treece]

Send her the NOCIRC pamphlet on intact care and the one on circ care. Then let her decide which one is "cleaner." Frankly, intact care is. Just wipe like a finger. When ds is older, he learns to clean it just like any other person. Circ care: wound care for the first week, possibly removing feces from any lesions, etc. (I have no experience here, both my ds are intact)