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about the "red ring of doom"...

post #1 of 18
Thread Starter 
I am the mom of two boys- the oldest is 2 years, 7 months, and has multiple food
allergies. The youngest is 7 months, and had seemed clear... until we got the
red ring of doom after eating some apples. Bah.

Now the older one has gotten the RRoD on and off throughout his life. He has
also had chronic diaper rash that just comes and goes of its own accord. I've
never figured out what the trigger for it is, and it disappears when it wants
to, which is also really frustrating.

DS2 is in a dermatology study of infants with siblings with eczema. The study
purports to see if daily application of moisturizer (Cetaphil) can be said to
"prevent" eczema. The doc leading it would be attacked by this group, as he
looked me right in the eye when I asked and said, "There is absolutely no
correlation between food allergy and eczema." But that is another story.

In addition to developing the RRoD, DS2 had a suspicious, raised rash that
looked rather eczematic, so I had to take him in to get "studied." The eczema
like rash was on his bum, so the dermatologist saw the RRoD. He immediately
became animated. He said, "oh my, this is either candida or strep..." I was
confused. He called in a pediatric dermatologist and a whole flock of residents
to peer at my baby's butt. The old pediatric dermatologist said it looked like
classic "perianal strep." Have you ever heard of such a thing?

Most doctors haven't. They cultured it, and I'll be back to let you all know if
that is what it turns out to be. But they said it was contagious and that
siblings get it easily from bathing together-- my boys had taken their first
baths together last week.

Here is one article, just for the record. DH, a physician, is feeling really
sheepish about this, but apparently it is really just underdiagnosed all the way
around.

http://www.aafp.org/afp/20000115/391.html

So the second part of my question is... what do we do if it is strep? Neither
boy has ever had antibiotics (though I was GBS+ for both deliveries.) I shudder
to think of wiping out their little guts after all the care I've taken to be
populating them with good bugs. But after DS2 scratched at his crotch while
trying to sleep all last night just as DS1 used to do at his age... man, if
antibiotics will help, sign me up.

What if my 2 year old has had this off and on for 2+ years? Oh, the mommy
guilt!
post #2 of 18
I'm very interested in finding out how the culture comes back. I read about this a while ago and then forgot to follow up with it.
post #3 of 18
Subbing.
post #4 of 18
But if it is that, and clears up on its own without abx, then what is it saying? or if you take out foods and it goes away, what is that saying? Is that the whole theory that your bucket is overloaded or else you'd be able to overcome it yourself? My DD2 supposedly had "folliculities" but it turned out to be a food reaction (take the food out and it disappears so either it was a food reaction or the bucket emptied and she fought it off herself, but it hasn't come back since removing that one last thing with corn in it). So even if it IS strep, it could still be a food reaction. Know what I mean?
post #5 of 18
Quote:
"There is absolutely no
correlation between food allergy and eczema."
Don't even get me started here. I'm planning to put together a nice envelope of pics showing how much my dd suffered the first year of her life (many, many, many open, weeping, often infected lesions on her WHOLE body, face of bloody raw hamburger) and bring them into the office of the ped derm who saw her at 4 weeks old. He said it was the worst case he had ever seen in someone so young (and man, it was NOTHING at four weeks compared to what it eventually got to be like). I asked him if it could have been something I ate. He told me food allergies are a myth and that I was a nursing mom of two and should eat what I wanted. He tested us for scabies. SCABIES!!! He sent us down the wrong road right from the get go, and it REALLY cost my baby. I couldn't stand to participate in a study w/those people.

That would be so great if your sons could get some relief. Keep us updated w/the results!

~Tracy
post #6 of 18
Thread Starter 
Ok--
So, the culture came back positive... but for Group B Strep, not the anticipated Group A. Still trying to figure out what this might mean (and have both boys on topical antibiotic).

Big news that is draining my household is that DS1 ate a LOT of strawberries on Tuesday, and on Wednesday by noon was covered- and I mean COVERED in rash which was only sort of hive like. Now his eczema is in terrible shape even though the rest of the rash is subsiding.

I feel so defeated. Strawberries have never posed a problem before. I feel like if he eats "too much" of any one thing it causes a problem. Isn't it enough that I have to monitor WHAT he eats so carefully? Where is the line in "too many" strawberries? 6? 7? 8? He is so tiny that it is totally counter-intuitive to deny him what seems to be healthy food. Gar.

Obviously I need some venting time. I am exhausted from the worry and the practicalities of taking care of a toddler that is too busy to eat or sleep because he is intent on scratching his skin off his body.
post #7 of 18
Just wanted to give you The eczema is such a bugger. Like it isn't enough that you have to deal with the body's initial reaction to the trigger, then you have days of the eczema (which in some ways in SOO much worse) to deal with : Come here and vent all you want, we have all been there and can understand your frustration. You just want to do what is best for your child...if only someone could tell you exactly what that is

Beth
post #8 of 18
Hugs!
post #9 of 18
Hi Aletheia,

My DD has been suffering with perianal strep since Christmas--but hers was Group A. My understanding and research confirmed that the only way to stop it was antibx. Her sister AND my Dh came down with it too, so they all went on meds. I gave them both acidophillus, then 3 weeks later DD1 came down with it AGAIN! Fast forward to this weekend, my poor little lamb has a raw bum again, blood on toiletpaper and it looks like I have to take her in again for a culture. The 2nd time she was on antibx she had a hive reaction on day 9. Hives were really bad and went on for about a week. The poor love developed nasty nasty yeast infection to top it off.

Topically doc recommended Cortisone cream. I don't usually use chemical stuff on my girls, but the Cortisone stopped the incessant burning and the rithing pain she was in, and for that I was so thankful. (I tried EVERYTHING for her ... sitz baths, baking soda, epsom, nystatin and other stuff but Cortisone worked best.)

I'm quite flabbergasted and perplexed that I have to take her in for yet another culture afterschool today. I dread having to give her antibx again. It seemed to get rid of it for a while each time, so I wonder if she's picking it up again and again at school? (Apparently it's very contagious.)

I know your son's isn't Strep A, but I just wanted to share our story, just to offer my support. We will get to the "bottom" of this hang in there!
post #10 of 18


~Tracy
post #11 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by Penny4Them View Post
Hi Aletheia,

My DD has been suffering with perianal strep since Christmas--but hers was Group A. My understanding and research confirmed that the only way to stop it was antibx. Her sister AND my Dh came down with it too, so they all went on meds. I gave them both acidophillus, then 3 weeks later DD1 came down with it AGAIN! Fast forward to this weekend, my poor little lamb has a raw bum again, blood on toiletpaper and it looks like I have to take her in again for a culture. The 2nd time she was on antibx she had a hive reaction on day 9. Hives were really bad and went on for about a week. The poor love developed nasty nasty yeast infection to top it off.

Topically doc recommended Cortisone cream. I don't usually use chemical stuff on my girls, but the Cortisone stopped the incessant burning and the rithing pain she was in, and for that I was so thankful. (I tried EVERYTHING for her ... sitz baths, baking soda, epsom, nystatin and other stuff but Cortisone worked best.)

I'm quite flabbergasted and perplexed that I have to take her in for yet another culture afterschool today. I dread having to give her antibx again. It seemed to get rid of it for a while each time, so I wonder if she's picking it up again and again at school? (Apparently it's very contagious.)

I know your son's isn't Strep A, but I just wanted to share our story, just to offer my support. We will get to the "bottom" of this hang in there!
This sounds eerily similar to my DD2's "folliculitis" that they thought was strep. And she went on 2 courses of abx, and it came back each time, within a day of stopping the abx. I asked if they were sure it couldn't be from a food intolerance and they said not that they'd ever heard of. Turned out it was corn she was getting in her acidophilus every day. Took it out, and the "folliculitis" went away and hasn't been back. They were going to culture it the next time we went back, but since I got it to go away, we never did the culture... Just something to think about.
post #12 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjbrown92 View Post
This sounds eerily similar to my DD2's "folliculitis" that they thought was strep.
Thanks. This is good to know. The weird thing is she did have 2 cultures that came back Pos for perianal strep, BUT she also has gone back on gluten after a 9 month gluten-free diet. (My younger Dd and me are still gluten free) So it makes me wonder if somehow the gluten could be a culprit making her more susceptible to strep. I'm researching collodial silver and probiotics to see if I can cure her this time w/o abx. Failing this, and maybe one more round of abx, I might put her back on gluten-free diet.
post #13 of 18
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Penny4Them View Post
My DD has been suffering with perianal strep since Christmas--but hers was Group A.
Thanks, Penny- your DD sounds like she has had a time of it! And that is what gets me-- the red ring of doom comes and goes here, but it never seems to cause much discomfort. The doctor was shocked when I said Lio (little guy) hadn't really had any fussiness or fever or trouble pooping. He's fine. And big guy is too-- allergies notwithstanding. So it seems weird to me to be giving antibiotics for a red ring that isn't too much of a problem.

The diaper rash, for DS1, though, is an issue.

It seems to be responding to the abx, so that's something.

The fact that the culture was positive for Group B makes me wonder if it is symptomatic of food allergy-- isn't Group B present in most intestines anyway? Maybe I should go ask in the chat/detox thread...
post #14 of 18
I decided NOT to take her to doctor yesterday, but to try something else for the rash. I'm researching a way to get her better with Grapefruit Seed Extract, pro-biotics and colloidal silver.

I had a bottle of Peaceful Mountain Throat Rescue that's been tested against Strep and in their studies they found it was more effect than abx.
https://peacefulmountain.com/images/...estSummary.pdf
Well, I sprayed Dds very sore bum with it last night and this morning (she was laughing that I put "throat" spray on her bum ) what was over an inch wide of soreness yesterday is now 1/2 the size! Impressive!!!!! This brand is made a little different than colloidal silver, but it helped her sleep w/o waking up miserable and certainly seems to be doing something fast. Now, if I can just kill off the Strep inside her! She doesn't have fever or other things that go with throat strep, so I'm going see what happens.

Thought I'd share.
post #15 of 18
Thread Starter 
So... tonight I got a phone call from another of the dermatologist's residents to say that the doctor has been thinking about it and he feels that the rash he saw was probably NOT due to Group B Strep. He thinks that either there was Group A present there that just didn't show up in the culture or that it is due to "some other cause." :

So I've been smearing my two boys' bottoms with abx and didn't really need to? Gar.

It does make me curious, though, about the possibility of Group B Strep flaming up when something difficult to digest is ingested...
post #16 of 18
My Dds Perianal Strep (PAS) was Strep A and was treated with oral and topical abx, several times. It went away but has kept returning.

Alethia, thinking about your last post: Did they also test for pinworm? I understand that pinworm can cause similar sx to PAS. Did they give his oral abx too? With PAS there is sometimes blood on the stool or toilet paper. My Dd gets this as a symptom.

So far I've been giving Dd grapeseed extract, probiotics and spraying with ionic silver and she no longer has the raw bottom. It's going to probably take 2 weeks, but this protocol will hopefully kill off the Strep A and save her another round of abx. I'll post again to let you know if it completely heals.
post #17 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aletheia View Post
So... tonight I got a phone call from another of the dermatologist's residents to say that the doctor has been thinking about it and he feels that the rash he saw was probably NOT due to Group B Strep. He thinks that either there was Group A present there that just didn't show up in the culture or that it is due to "some other cause." :

...
How could he not be sure?? Is the test effective or isn't it??
post #18 of 18
Thread Starter 
alisaterry- good question. sorry i let this drop.

penny4them- I will have to look into this. no one has mentioned pinworms to me. arg.

we still have ring issues here.
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