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103 fever in 6.5 month old WWYD? UPDATE post #52 - Page 6

post #101 of 222
I agree with the others, please give the full course of antibiotics. Pneumonia is not something to mess with, especially in a child so young. I'd also be very concerned about what the "ball" was. My younger son suffered lung damage related to a CHD and they removed a few "balls" from his lungs with deep suctioning and they were called mucous plugs that caused him serious breathing issues. I wonder if this "ball" could have been the same thing?
post #102 of 222
Quote:
Originally Posted by hummingmom View Post
While I appreciate the sentiment behind this post (and certainly don't intend to criticize the OP for seeking conventional medical treatment for a baby with pneumonia), I have to disagree strongly with the idea that's implied, i.e., that alternative medicine is somehow a lightweight option that's ineffective or inappropriate for truly serious problems. Having just read through this thread for the first time, I've noticed that "alternatives" have generally been presented in a very limited way. For instance, there have been references to things like Hyland's teething tablets, vitamin C, or just doing nothing and hoping for the best. To me, all of these would fall in the category of "home remedies." They may be helpful in many cases, but they're basically the alternative version of a dab of neosporin, an aspirin tablet, or some other simple and not-always-effective allopathic remedy. If you've tried them, and your child is still getting sicker and sicker, you clearly need to find something more effective, ASAP.

On the other hand, if we compare apples to apples... i.e., diagnosis and treatment by a skilled MD, vs. diagnosis and treatment by a skilled practitioner of an established alternative medical discipline... then the alternative approach is IMO a valid one, whether things are going "well" or "badly." Of course, there are some situations that are beyond the scope of these disciplines; nobody is going to be able to use homeopathy to re-attach a severed leg, or acupuncture to correct a congenital heart defect. But this is due to the type of ailment, not to its severity. For example, those who strongly support the homeopathic approach would rather choose an expert homeopath than an expert MD to treat an infection, even (or perhaps especially) if it were a potentially dangerous one. (Needless to say, it can be hard to find a real expert in any healing profession... which is why we would do well to form relationships with one or more trusted practitioners, before an emergency happens. Even if they can't solve the problem, they'll likely be able to refer us to someone who can.)

It seems as if a strong preference for alternative medical care -- even when our children are actually sick -- is somewhat of a minority view on this thread, and perhaps isn't even considered "respectable" by some people. That comes as a surprise, especially given the forum header:

Health and Healing is a forum for discussion that reaches beyond mainstream health care norms. It embraces the wide variety of natural and alternative healing modalities as well as necessary conventional medical care. To further this aim please use the term "health care practitioner" rather than "doctor" to embrace the reality that there are other professionals out there to consult for health care needs.


Anyway, just to add my 2 cents on the topic of medicating a feverish child: I'll do it on occasion (usually with ibuprofen), if he or she seems really miserable and nothing else is helping. I don't medicate for the fever itself, though I probably would if it stayed at 105 for a significant length of time. In that case, the medication would be my last step before going to the ER -- as it's the first thing they're going to ask about when you get there, anyway. And this does make sense, from a diagnostic perspective. A fever of 105 that's reducible to 101 with medication, is a very different beast from a fever that's still at 105 after medication.

It's also important to note that a fever "breaking" isn't the same thing as a fever going down due to antipyretics. When a fever is lowered artificially, the patient might seem somewhat relieved, but the illness itself is just as strong as ever. As a PP said, Tylenol can certainly make people more comfortable, but it doesn't cure anything.

When a fever breaks on its own, it's a dramatic change: the patient is immediately, noticeably better; and recovery is generally very rapid afterward. It's obvious what's happening, even without a thermometer. I've read about this many times in older books, but have only personally experienced it once, in the small hours of the morning after my son had been treated homeopathically for his croup. It was amazing to see, though also kind of scary. After the remedy, his fever (which had been moderate) started going up and up... and then crossed 105, and then... just as I was wondering if I should give him the Advil, or start packing up to go to the hospital... POOF, it was all over. His breathing went back to normal, his face relaxed and lost its flushed look, and he fell into a deep, restful sleep. Just like the old-time books said. And he hasn't had croup since.
My response was to her post about pneumonia.

I didn't say anything about fever.

Alternatives are fine for some things. My dad has a cousin who was treated for Polio with NA medicine. A traditional remedy is even found in AIDs drugs today.

But for a possibly serious infection in an infant I think one should examine all the choices.
post #103 of 222
Quote:
That is not true. One of our kids have fevers up to 106/107 with no reason known to man.
Mine too. My youngest frequently gets fevers over 105 with NO sign of illness. (frequently, as in at least monthly). All of her testing always comes back perfect. No one has been able to find a reason for her temp. going up so high.

My step father was admitted to the hospital last month with a collapsed lung. Two weeks before, he was given antibiotics for pneumonia. He took a few doses, felt better and stopped. He was told that if he had not gone in when he did, he would most likely have died within 24 hours. He said he felt fine until his lung actually collapsed. So, maybe your baby is feeling better but I would not chance it.
post #104 of 222
Pneumonia is not something to mess around with, grown, healthy ADULTS die from it fairly frequently, my mom died of it last fall, and the majority of people in the ICU were there for PNEUMONIA it can have life long effects. Do your son a favor and give him the rest of the series of antibiotics and see a real medical doctor.
post #105 of 222
Quote:
Originally Posted by vloky View Post
Pneumonia is not something to mess around with, grown, healthy ADULTS die from it fairly frequently, my mom died of it last fall, and the majority of people in the ICU were there for PNEUMONIA it can have life long effects. Do your son a favor and give him the rest of the series of antibiotics and see a real medical doctor.

I have to second this - my grown healthy husband spent the last week in the hospital on heavy duty antibiotics - I can only imagine what a child would go through unmedicated.
post #106 of 222
If you don't believe in antibiotics, don't start them.

If you start a course of antibiotics, please finish them.

Please don't start and stop and only give a few doses. What you've just done is killed the most easily killed bacteria, leaving the strongest to survive and reproduce.

My grandfather was a public health officer in the 1940s. Before antibiotics. He witnessed the introduction of pennicilin and the beginnings of widespread use of it.

And he witnessed, and talked about, and RANTED about, the beginnings of antibiotic resistance. When pennicilin was first available, it was a miracle drug. Because nothing like it had ever been available before, NOTHING was antibiotic resistant. Often, just one dose would make the patient feel like they'd been cured -- and then they wouldn't take the whole course.

I understand being loath to medicate a child unnecessarily. But once you've started down the antibiotic road, it is in your child's best interest, as well as the community at large, to finish what you've started.
post #107 of 222
Thread Starter 
Wow...I'm not sure what to say about the antibiotics....First thing is this...we do not know if the pneumonia was viral or bacterial.....thus....that is one reason why i stopped the antibiotics...second reason is he was pooping every 5 min...his little bottom got so sore the first day he started the antibiotics...it's been 4 days since the last dose and he's still pooping 10times more than he's ever had in his whole life. I also started pro-biotics with the antibiotics and he's still having a ton of poop's.
He is back to his normal baby self....clear lungs...no cough...happy baby...sleeping good.
So should i really really finish the abx? He only has 3 more dose's which means..one dose a day...so 3 more days...geez..i just dont see a clear cut reason for me to go back to them. I need more info on this...i need clear cut medical advice on this one....a good website or a medical reference.
Also..my chiro did not tell me to stop anything....i stopped them on my own....about the ball that he felt....he mentioned something about lung function and he manipulated an area on his back....and i think he explained it like a ball....i could have my wording off. I will make sure i ask him about the ball when we go back on thursday.
post #108 of 222
Did you read the link I posted? That is "clear cut medical advice" from a "good website or medical reference". Diaper rash ointment is great for protecting his skin from antibiotic poops. You say he's got clear lungs, no cough - did you go into an MD and get a clear bill of health, and does the doctor know he hasn't gotten the full course of abx? Because without one, the bacteria can still be in there. Why don't you know if it's viral or bacterial, I thought that was getting tested?
post #109 of 222
Yes, you should really REALLY finish the antibiotics. Otherwise the pneumonia might soon be back, only a lot WORSE. People often start to feel better when the abx start working. That does not mean you don't have to finish them.
post #110 of 222
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mamato3wild ponnie View Post
Wow...I'm not sure what to say about the antibiotics....First thing is this...we do not know if the pneumonia was viral or bacterial.....thus....that is one reason why i stopped the antibiotics...second reason is he was pooping every 5 min...his little bottom got so sore the first day he started the antibiotics...it's been 4 days since the last dose and he's still pooping 10times more than he's ever had in his whole life. I also started pro-biotics with the antibiotics and he's still having a ton of poop's.
He is back to his normal baby self....clear lungs...no cough...happy baby...sleeping good.
So should i really really finish the abx? He only has 3 more dose's which means..one dose a day...so 3 more days...geez..i just dont see a clear cut reason for me to go back to them. I need more info on this...i need clear cut medical advice on this one....a good website or a medical reference.
Also..my chiro did not tell me to stop anything....i stopped them on my own....about the ball that he felt....he mentioned something about lung function and he manipulated an area on his back....and i think he explained it like a ball....i could have my wording off. I will make sure i ask him about the ball when we go back on thursday.
If you didn't want to do abx, you shouldn't have started them. Having given him 2 of 5 doses, you've done 40% of a course. YOu have killed the most easily killed bacteria in his system now, and if this is bacterial (which you still don't know!), the remaining ones will not be killed, and will now be the only ones reproducing. If this *is* bacterial (whic you say you don't know), you've now set the stage for your baby having a more antibiotic resistant case.

I respect that people dont' want to medicate unnecessarily. I am the first to rant and rave about the overuse of antibiotics (try finding a hand soap that's not antibiotic anymore!). They are not my first line go-to answer to everything (though I do have no problem using them when necessary). But if you decide to go that route, you really have to GO THAT ROUTE ALL THE WAY. You CAN'T hop on and off the modern medicine train without some very serious consequences. If not for your baby (that is possible) then for someone else who gets that antibiotic-resistant infection you've now bred.

If you want reading material:

http://www3.niaid.nih.gov/topics/ant...prevention.htm

http://www3.niaid.nih.gov/topics/ant...ealthIssue.htm
(This one lists penicillin-resistant streptococcus pneumonia as one of the bacteria showing increased antibiotic resistance)
post #111 of 222
Quote:
You say he's got clear lungs, no cough - did you go into an MD and get a clear bill of health, and does the doctor know he hasn't gotten the full course of abx?
:

Like I said, my step father appeared fine. No cough, no fever, nothing out of the ordinary until he was basically on his death bed. At the very least, get a re-check with his doctor.
post #112 of 222
Quote:
Originally Posted by skai View Post
Yes, you should really REALLY finish the antibiotics. Otherwise the pneumonia might soon be back, only a lot WORSE. People often start to feel better when the abx start working. That does not mean you don't have to finish them.

: That's why they tell you to finish them even if you start to feel better. Just because he appears to be better doesn't mean he actually is.
I would take him back to be looked at and tell the dr. that he didn't finish his course of antibiotics.
post #113 of 222
Quote:
Originally Posted by savithny View Post
If you don't believe in antibiotics, don't start them.

If you start a course of antibiotics, please finish them.

Please don't start and stop and only give a few doses. What you've just done is killed the most easily killed bacteria, leaving the strongest to survive and reproduce.
:

If you've started them, finish them.

-Angela
post #114 of 222
Since it's been a few days I take it, I would call the dr. who prescribed the antibiotics and explain the situation and see what he says.

-Angela
post #115 of 222
Thread Starter 
Our doc is out of town till monday....should i just give him the rest of the abx that i have left? I'm not sure what to do now.....i can call the office and see what the on call doc has to say. I'm in a funk right now...i want to do what's best for my little one....he was also prescribed prednizone by mouth for 3 days along with the abx...i gave him all the prednizone...just not all the abx.
We have a follow up on monday with our doc. I will call the office first thing in the morning and see what they say i should do.
See when i took him back to the doctor....the day they took the xray and he was dx'd with pneumonia...the doc said that we could do one of 2 things....not give the abx and wait it out...see how baby was the next day..if he was seeming better then cont to take it one day at a time with out the abx....or we could go full force and treat with abx as if it was bacterial pneumonia...I wasnt sure what to do so i went with the abx....And now i'm not sure what to do.
post #116 of 222
You started with the abx, you finish the abx. Simple really.
post #117 of 222
Quote:
Originally Posted by abimommy View Post
My response was to her post about pneumonia.

I didn't say anything about fever.

Alternatives are fine for some things. My dad has a cousin who was treated for Polio with NA medicine. A traditional remedy is even found in AIDs drugs today.

But for a possibly serious infection in an infant I think one should examine all the choices.
The thing is, it's pretty rare for full-blown infections to arise suddenly. Nature usually gives us a few days of warning. In the case of the OP, the baby doesn't seem to have been terribly ill last Sunday or Monday. If the family were under the care of a homeopath (or TCM doctor, or other alternative HCP), he would almost certainly have been treated by them at this time, if not earlier. They tend to believe in intervening sooner rather than later, especially with children's illnesses. Even if the wrong remedy were chosen at first, there would still be time to try a couple of others. Of course, we can't say how things would have turned out, but IMO there's every reason to believe that such a treatment would prevent things from reaching the "crisis stage." Homeopathy has a very strong track record in treating influenza and pneumonia.

http://www.lifemedical.us/flu/dewey.htm
http://nationalcenterforhomeopathy.org/didyouknow=3

As it turned out, after a few days of conventional medical treatment (a nebulizer -- I'm guessing albuterol?), the baby was getting sicker, which led to the diagnosis of the pneumonia on Thursday. It would be kind of iffy to suddenly "switch trains" at that point, as a PP put it. But, again, that's not because the alternative disciplines are incapable of treating potentially serious infections. It's just that it's much harder to apply naturopathic or homeopathic principles after the situation has been complicated by allopathic treatment.

At that point, it's probably simpler for everyone just to let the conventional MD's finish what they've started.
post #118 of 222
Babies are not little adults. They compensate longer, and crash harder.
post #119 of 222
Thread Starter 
That makes alot of sense....so is it ok to go ahead and finish the abx...or have the doc rx a new one.
Can we keep the tone here with positive energy...i'm already feeling like a failure.
post #120 of 222
i would finish the ones you have. since the infection responded to the abx, it's likely not viral pneumonia.
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