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103 fever in 6.5 month old WWYD? UPDATE post #52 - Page 3

post #41 of 222
I medicate a fever with Tylenol if it's over 101.5
I know when it's that high, because my son automatically vomits (even if there is no stomach bug), and lays like a wet rag on his bed. He will not drink or eat anything.

So with the Tylenol:
1. He is not in pain or nauseous
2. He doesn't vomit, unless it's a GI bug
3. He drinks fluids! Which is a good way to keep him out of the hospital from dehydration.
post #42 of 222
My wife works in an ER, and is part of a team of people who save lives everyday. I think there is definitely a place for alternative treatments, especially for prevention, or for low level things. But when things get really serious, serious treatment is needed, and yes, sometimes that can get into life or death situations. I would hate to see someone lose a child, or have a child suffer permanent damage because they delayed appropriate treatment. I see people posting on this board, when if you were to ask me, their loved needs evaluation. It could be nothing, or not. Who knows?

I do think there are many natural ways to reduce fever, or to relieve pain, it just depends on the situation. I am not opposed to them, and I am concerned with the crap they put in children's tylenol products (and seek the ones with the least crap) as well. But sometimes our children might need a little more. I personally do not use homeopathic products, I have never found them effective for me or my family. Doesn't mean others don't find them useful.
post #43 of 222
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jwebbal View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by LBMarie9 View Post
<more questions about fevers...why do they say that you should see a dr after 60 hr or more? why is that? isn't the fever just doing the same thing all along fighting "soemthing" off if it's there a week?>

A long-lasting high fever has a higher chance of being either bacterial or more serious and something underlying that needs medical attention.

-Angela
__________
Yes, basically the body cannot tolerate a long term assault and the risk of much more serious problems is higher, including death. Sepsis, which is a bacterial infection CAN kill and does. Think of Jim Henson, he died from sepsis. The organs of the body cannot tolerate long term fevers, assault from viral or bacterial infections, etc, etc. That's why it should be evaluated. There are weird things that can come up that we cannot recognize, that could be more serious than just a simple illness.
To clarify- even in these situations, it is NOT the fever that damages or kills. It's the underlying infection.

-Angela
post #44 of 222
Quote:
Originally Posted by veganone View Post
Really? You are okay with people treating fever with Tylenol if they chose to? I've heard you say otherwise many times on this board. I'm happy that you are willing to understand why people chose to medicate high fevers.

Sure. I just maintain that there's no medical need to

And I advocate treating symptoms- if the child is uncomfortable or in pain, I'm all for lowering the fever to make them comfortable. As a general rule, I prefer ibuprofen to tylenol- tends to be more effective for pain.

-Angela
post #45 of 222
wow-some weird feelings between members here--

however--someone asked me what test they did to confirm it was a viral infection and I am not sure they did anything except the xray and the RSV snot test?!! he's feeling better--does that mean it WAS viral since a bacterial would need to be treated?

dang it--I was hoping that we cold confirm each time if it was viral or bacterial because--my son had chronic ear infections as a baby (until recently going off dairy)--and we gave lots of antibiotics--he is allergic to three different types and the others were unresponsive to any of his remaining ear infections--so I would like to find a way to know if I he needs to be treated--because if it was bacterial I would choose to give him one of the less allergic ones-the lesser of two evils if he did have bac pneumonia.

just let me clarify about prolonged fevers....
a fever at ALL over a couple days is a problem? or just a HIGH fever is a problem for that long? meaning if they have a high fever and it gets lower everyday however after 6 days they still are 100.something--this is a prolonged fever to be concerned about? I have known a lot of people to treat fevers (with tylenol) for this long before nad never had a dr say something..or is the problem in letting the child HAVE the fever?

sorry if that makes no sense--I just want all the ideas in my head when the times come as a mommy to make the choices for my kids' health.
post #46 of 222
Quote:
Originally Posted by LBMarie9 View Post
wow-some weird feelings between members here--

however--someone asked me what test they did to confirm it was a viral infection and I am not sure they did anything except the xray and the RSV snot test?!! he's feeling better--does that mean it WAS viral since a bacterial would need to be treated?

dang it--I was hoping that we cold confirm each time if it was viral or bacterial because--my son had chronic ear infections as a baby (until recently going off dairy)--and we gave lots of antibiotics--he is allergic to three different types and the others were unresponsive to any of his remaining ear infections--so I would like to find a way to know if I he needs to be treated--because if it was bacterial I would choose to give him one of the less allergic ones-the lesser of two evils if he did have bac pneumonia.

just let me clarify about prolonged fevers....
a fever at ALL over a couple days is a problem? or just a HIGH fever is a problem for that long? meaning if they have a high fever and it gets lower everyday however after 6 days they still are 100.something--this is a prolonged fever to be concerned about? I have known a lot of people to treat fevers (with tylenol) for this long before nad never had a dr say something..or is the problem in letting the child HAVE the fever?

sorry if that makes no sense--I just want all the ideas in my head when the times come as a mommy to make the choices for my kids' health.
The problem/ danger is NOT the fever itself. It's the possibility of what could be causing it. Personally I would worry about a *high* fever (for my kids that's over 104- we run high fevers) that lasted more than 2-3 days. I'd worry about a fever of any sort that lasted more than 5-7 days.

-Angela
post #47 of 222
Quote:
Originally Posted by alegna View Post
The problem/ danger is NOT the fever itself.
-Angela
what is the basis of the above statement?
post #48 of 222
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bea View Post
I just wanted to say, for the anti antipyretic crowd (tylenol etc) that a good going fever makes you feel like cr*p.

Personally, I'm not encouraged to allow my child to suffer by tales of near dehydration or semi comatose states. I'd rather treat the high fever ( tepid sponging, cool clothing, light bedclothes, medication) rather than stand by and cheerlead a state of misery.
i dont sit by and allow my child to suffer needlessly either but my children are generally laying on the sofa watching TV at 103 and 104..they are not dehydrated and semi comatose states. my son just went through a major bacterial infection and showed no signs of what you describe. However, his fever was instrumental in his cure. no, he didnt feel GREAT but he wasnt dehydrated at all...he nursed A LOT during that period.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LBMarie9 View Post

however--someone asked me what test they did to confirm it was a viral infection and I am not sure they did anything except the xray and the RSV snot test?!! he's feeling better--does that mean it WAS viral since a bacterial would need to be treated?

dang it--I was hoping that we cold confirm each time if it was viral or bacterial because--my son had chronic ear infections as a baby (until recently going off dairy)--and we gave lots of antibiotics--he is allergic to three different types and the others were unresponsive to any of his remaining ear infections--so I would like to find a way to know if I he needs to be treated--because if it was bacterial I would choose to give him one of the less allergic ones-the lesser of two evils if he did have bac pneumonia.

just let me clarify about prolonged fevers....
a fever at ALL over a couple days is a problem? or just a HIGH fever is a problem for that long? meaning if they have a high fever and it gets lower everyday however after 6 days they still are 100.something--this is a prolonged fever to be concerned about? I have known a lot of people to treat fevers (with tylenol) for this long before nad never had a dr say something..or is the problem in letting the child HAVE the fever?

sorry if that makes no sense--I just want all the ideas in my head when the times come as a mommy to make the choices for my kids' health.
bacterial infections don't NEED to be treated. It depends on the child and how his immune system is reacting (a good fever will kill almost any bacteria...anything that will survive in a 103/104 environment is pretty scarey stuff).

an Xray can not show whether an infection is viral or bacterial. as far as the RSV swab, if that is all they took, and that was negative, then no, you still dont know what the cause of his fever was. When i take the kids in to our dr (which is rare), i have them run a culture to determine what is causing the fever. I want to know that FIRST...before any "just in case" antibiotics. You CAN confirm each time what the infection is. But most dr. offices are not used to that being the course of action. Most offices will simply look at the sick kid and guess its bacterial and prescribe medicine. You have to be very proactive to get them to change the way they are used to behaving. Kids get better without antibiotics. They really do. I know that is blasphemy to some here...but its a simple fact.

Fevers are not really a problem..its more an indication of how your child's immune system is reaction to the underlying problem. A prolonged fever simply means its taking your child longer to win the war..he may need help. Increase vit. C and other things depending on what it is. A fever that comes and goes could also be a problem (a reason my kids recently went to the dr. office..which we don't normally do for a simply cold or flu).

there are 3 camps here, i think. one who use tylenol for anything and everything..one who will use it for a relatively low fever (or for a fever that is over 100, 101, or 103...people vary in their comfort level) and those who will not use it at all for fevers (i think for most of us, that includes a fever of 106/107 range). I fall into the later category. Ive never had a kid with 107 fever, so i dont really know what i would do. i would more than likely bring that fever down a bit...short of the 106/107 fever range, i dont give tylenol for fever reduction.

However, i dont snarl my nose at the other camp. People have a different comfort level. And thats ok. None of us need to accuse each other of not caring about our kids though. I can guarantee you that i love my kids as much as anyone on this planet. And Im sure you (general you) feel the same. You just need to figure out which camp you are in and be comfortable with that position...b/c it is definitely the minority position.
post #49 of 222
Quote:
Originally Posted by babygrace View Post
what is the basis of the above statement?
Biology? Fact? Not sure what your question is.

-Angela
post #50 of 222
Quote:
bacterial infections don't NEED to be treated. It depends on the child and how his immune system is reacting (a good fever will kill almost any bacteria...anything that will survive in a 103/104 environment is pretty scarey stuff).
What?? bacterial infections DO need to be treated a good deal of the time. Sepsis, anyone?
post #51 of 222
Quote:
Originally Posted by alegna View Post
The problem/ danger is NOT the fever itself.
-Angela
Quote:
Originally Posted by babygrace View Post
what is the basis of the above statement?
Quote:
Originally Posted by alegna View Post
Biology? Fact? Not sure what your question is.

-Angela
we understand the symptomatic nature of fever. what you are saying additionally- "fever is not dangerous or problematic". can you point to references or studies that support this "biology/fact"?
post #52 of 222
Thread Starter 
UPDATE....originally took baby in on monday the 6th for high fever and wheezing and coughing....have been doing nebulizer treatments a few times a day...baby's fever broke wednesday night...he woke up sweaty. Still bad cough...he would start coughing and then it would turn into him crying because the coughing hurt...so it would be a vicious cycle of coughing and crying...we havent gotten much sleep at all this week. Today-thursday....baby's eyes are sunken in....he's lost half a pound...not smiling and active...not nursing well.
Baby overall was worse today than on monday....i took him back to our GP...who practices integrative medicine and holistic practices....he listened to the baby's lungs and said that his right lung sounds worse than the left and he was a bit concerned...as the baby did not seem to be any better.
We did a chest x-ray and the right lung showed pneumonia....i kept asking about viral vs bacterial...and he mentioned we could do a blood test to figure out which one....he also mentioned that in a baby this young ...he feels that we should treat right away...rather than wait and see...we've waited 4 days and it's gotten worse...i was almost in tears....as i had originally never wanted to take my baby to any doctors...i didnt want to give my baby medicine....i'm asking my self....what did i do wrong...did i not take care of my baby the way i should have...i feel so guilty right now....But i feel that he has to have the antibiotics and steriod....i am giving him a probiotic...plus i took him to our chiro who did did accupuncture today too.
I felt better after seeing our chiro....however i still feel so bad as a mommy that my baby is so sick.
I need some mama support yall.
post #53 of 222
Q & A for concerned mamas:

Quote:
126. Once a fever starts to rise, unless the physician treats it, it will continue
to rise to dangerous levels.
A. True
B. False

Correct answer is B. False.


128. Which of the following statements is true?
A. Fever will cause brain damage.
B. Vigorous use of antipyretics in young children will prevent
febrile seizures.
C. Studies have reported a benefit of fever in the overall outcome of
infections.
D. The therapeutic index of acetaminophen is safe in children at all
times.

Correct answer is C.


130. Inappropriate reasons to treat a fever include all of the following
except:
A. parent comfort.
B. provider comfort.
C. patient comfort.
D. the urge to do something.

Correct answer is C.
Treating fever is like treating cough with antitussives (cough suppressants). These beneficial symptoms (fever and cough) aid in the proper detoxification processes being initiated by the liver and lungs respectively. Toxins need to be eliminated outside the body otherwise they will be re-absorbed causing adverse toxicity. Other symptoms like mild pain and inflammation tend to hasten the healing process. Untreated fever, like all other symptoms, is a self-limiting symptom that will eventually resolve once the detoxification process is over. The use of drugs is worthless and even more harmful by inhibiting detoxification thus retaining toxins inside the body. Its putative practice is based on bad science that has evolved to superstitious belief.

Nature knows best.
post #54 of 222
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mamato3wild ponnie View Post
UPDATE....originally took baby in on monday the 6th for high fever and wheezing and coughing....have been doing nebulizer treatments a few times a day...baby's fever broke wednesday night...he woke up sweaty. Still bad cough...he would start coughing and then it would turn into him crying because the coughing hurt...so it would be a vicious cycle of coughing and crying...we havent gotten much sleep at all this week. Today-thursday....baby's eyes are sunken in....he's lost half a pound...not smiling and active...not nursing well.
Baby overall was worse today than on monday....i took him back to our GP...who practices integrative medicine and holistic practices....he listened to the baby's lungs and said that his right lung sounds worse than the left and he was a bit concerned...as the baby did not seem to be any better.
We did a chest x-ray and the right lung showed pneumonia....i kept asking about viral vs bacterial...and he mentioned we could do a blood test to figure out which one....he also mentioned that in a baby this young ...he feels that we should treat right away...rather than wait and see...we've waited 4 days and it's gotten worse...i was almost in tears....as i had originally never wanted to take my baby to any doctors...i didnt want to give my baby medicine....i'm asking my self....what did i do wrong...did i not take care of my baby the way i should have...i feel so guilty right now....But i feel that he has to have the antibiotics and steriod....i am giving him a probiotic...plus i took him to our chiro who did did accupuncture today too.
I felt better after seeing our chiro....however i still feel so bad as a mommy that my baby is so sick.
I need some mama support yall.
mama...it is difficult (to say the least) to see your baby in this condition. you are doing what is needed to help make baby feel better again. easier said than done, i know, but, please don't be too hard on yourself. sending healing vibes to your baby...
thank you for keeping us updated.
post #55 of 222
I'm so sorry LO is so sick. The dehydration would really worry me. What is your GP recommending to address that issue? Babies get sick. People get sick. Natural remedies are lovely, but they aren't 100%. There is a valid reason people sometimes need western medicine. Your child's health is more important than any ideal.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Mamato3wild ponnie View Post
UPDATE....originally took baby in on monday the 6th for high fever and wheezing and coughing....have been doing nebulizer treatments a few times a day...baby's fever broke wednesday night...he woke up sweaty. Still bad cough...he would start coughing and then it would turn into him crying because the coughing hurt...so it would be a vicious cycle of coughing and crying...we havent gotten much sleep at all this week. Today-thursday....baby's eyes are sunken in....he's lost half a pound...not smiling and active...not nursing well.
Baby overall was worse today than on monday....i took him back to our GP...who practices integrative medicine and holistic practices....he listened to the baby's lungs and said that his right lung sounds worse than the left and he was a bit concerned...as the baby did not seem to be any better.
We did a chest x-ray and the right lung showed pneumonia....i kept asking about viral vs bacterial...and he mentioned we could do a blood test to figure out which one....he also mentioned that in a baby this young ...he feels that we should treat right away...rather than wait and see...we've waited 4 days and it's gotten worse...i was almost in tears....as i had originally never wanted to take my baby to any doctors...i didnt want to give my baby medicine....i'm asking my self....what did i do wrong...did i not take care of my baby the way i should have...i feel so guilty right now....But i feel that he has to have the antibiotics and steriod....i am giving him a probiotic...plus i took him to our chiro who did did accupuncture today too.
I felt better after seeing our chiro....however i still feel so bad as a mommy that my baby is so sick.
I need some mama support yall.
post #56 of 222
Quote:
Originally Posted by babygrace View Post
we understand the symptomatic nature of fever. what you are saying additionally- "fever is not dangerous or problematic". can you point to references or studies that support this "biology/fact"?
My question with the statements you quoted is that saying "fever is not dangerous" implies that no treatment is ever necessary when there is a fever. Sure, it's not the "fever" you treat, but the illness causing the fever MAY require treatment. And to just say "fever is not dangerous" implies that the underlying illness isn't either.

It's misleading at best.
post #57 of 222
Quote:
Originally Posted by preemiemamarach View Post
What?? bacterial infections DO need to be treated a good deal of the time. Sepsis, anyone?
thats an irrational fear to most bacterial infections.
post #58 of 222
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mamato3wild ponnie View Post
UPDATE....originally took baby in on monday the 6th for high fever and wheezing and coughing....have been doing nebulizer treatments a few times a day...baby's fever broke wednesday night...he woke up sweaty. Still bad cough...he would start coughing and then it would turn into him crying because the coughing hurt...so it would be a vicious cycle of coughing and crying...we havent gotten much sleep at all this week. Today-thursday....baby's eyes are sunken in....he's lost half a pound...not smiling and active...not nursing well.
Baby overall was worse today than on monday....i took him back to our GP...who practices integrative medicine and holistic practices....he listened to the baby's lungs and said that his right lung sounds worse than the left and he was a bit concerned...as the baby did not seem to be any better.
We did a chest x-ray and the right lung showed pneumonia....i kept asking about viral vs bacterial...and he mentioned we could do a blood test to figure out which one....he also mentioned that in a baby this young ...he feels that we should treat right away...rather than wait and see...we've waited 4 days and it's gotten worse...i was almost in tears....as i had originally never wanted to take my baby to any doctors...i didnt want to give my baby medicine....i'm asking my self....what did i do wrong...did i not take care of my baby the way i should have...i feel so guilty right now....But i feel that he has to have the antibiotics and steriod....i am giving him a probiotic...plus i took him to our chiro who did did accupuncture today too.
I felt better after seeing our chiro....however i still feel so bad as a mommy that my baby is so sick.
I need some mama support yall.



I hope he feels better soon.


Alternatives are for when things are going well, when things get bad do what you need to do to take care of that baby.
post #59 of 222
Quote:
Originally Posted by PassionateWriter View Post
i dont sit by and allow my child to suffer needlessly either but my children are generally laying on the sofa watching TV at 103 and 104..they are not dehydrated and semi comatose states. my son just went through a major bacterial infection and showed no signs of what you describe. However, his fever was instrumental in his cure. no, he didnt feel GREAT but he wasnt dehydrated at all...he nursed A LOT during that period.



bacterial infections don't NEED to be treated. It depends on the child and how his immune system is reacting (a good fever will kill almost any bacteria...anything that will survive in a 103/104 environment is pretty scarey stuff).
what kind of bacterial infection did your son have and how was it diagnosed?

also, in order to sterilize in an autoclave the temperature needs to be 250 degrees Fahrenheit. I know we're not looking for sterilization in the human body but that gives some idea of the high temperatures needed to kill off bacteria. 105 degrees is not really very hot when ya think about it.
post #60 of 222
Quote:
Originally Posted by veganone View Post
My question with the statements you quoted is that saying "fever is not dangerous" implies that no treatment is ever necessary when there is a fever. Sure, it's not the "fever" you treat, but the illness causing the fever MAY require treatment. And to just say "fever is not dangerous" implies that the underlying illness isn't either.

It's misleading at best.
it would be more accurate to quote the poster who made those comments regarding fever, not me. i, too, agree that it is misleading and unclear.

OP, to you.
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