Am I an old fuddy-duddy? - Page 3

[seaheroine]

Originally Posted by lab

Yikes. I'm going to be the voice of dissent and say this is not normal.

Wow. My son is 15. My dd is 13 and my youngest son will be 12 in July.

This isn't normal. I have lunch with a group of close friends every week and none of their kids are acting out like this.

You know - kids at 12 still need to be supervised. Why is this girl unsupervised to the point where a boyfriend can hang out, make out and then take pictures.

Yikes.

I agree. While it may be common in some areas, I think it is completely unacceptable for 12yos to be "making out". I was born in the late 70s and while I remember kids making out and even having sex in junior high, it wasn't even on my radar and I intend on making sure it's the same for DD...there is nothing wrong with keeping kids innocent. Heck, I didn't even have my first kiss until almost 16. Even then, I was more interested in my model horses and pets at that age.

I'm totally surprised - almost shocked - people think this is okay. Not in a million years would a 12yo of mine be allowed unsupervised in a "romantic" situation with a boy her own age, much less one in high school. I really feel as a parent this type of activity is one area where I put my foot down.

[choli]

Originally Posted by seaheroine

I agree. While it may be common in some areas, I think it is completely unacceptable for 12yos to be "making out". I was born in the late 70s and while I remember kids making out and even having sex in junior high, it wasn't even on my radar and I intend on making sure it's the same for DD...there is nothing wrong with keeping kids innocent. Heck, I didn't even have my first kiss until almost 16. Even then, I was more interested in my model horses and pets at that age.

I'm totally surprised - almost shocked - people think this is okay. Not in a million years would a 12yo of mine be allowed unsupervised in a "romantic" situation with a boy her own age, much less one in high school. I really feel as a parent this type of activity is one area where I put my foot down.

You can't forcibly keep someone innocent. You can put your foot down all you like, but teens tend to be extremely well able to get around supervision and rules. So while you may be convinced that your DD is all ponies and puppies at 16, there may very well be a side of her life that you know nothing at all about, because you've made it impossible for her to discuss with you.

I speak from experience...

[lab]

Originally Posted by choli

You can't forcibly keep someone innocent. You can put your foot down all you like, but teens tend to be extremely well able to get around supervision and rules. So while you may be convinced that your DD is all ponies and puppies at 16, there may very well be a side of her life that you know nothing at all about, because you've made it impossible for her to discuss with you.

I speak from experience...

Well, I speak from experience as well and everything really is all puppies and ponies.

And I want to clarify that I do not 'put my foot down' with my 15 year old.

Also, something that has been bugging me. I mentioned supervision as an important tool for me. Several posters have said that they were supervised to no avail. My question is - so then should I just not supervise at all? What is the point in those comments. To show that sometimes supervision doesn't work. Okay. I get that. Sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes you have kids going through divorces. Or perhaps they are depressed. Or maybe they have been abused. (I'm not saying any of general you have had this happen).

In general, kids who are healthy emotionally are not going to go to extremes. Making out at 12 is an extreme. And it isn't normal. There is usually something else going on if kids are acting out like that.

Disclaimer - this is all just my opinion based on having teenagers, being a teenager and being the sister of an out of control teenager.

[Tigeresse]

Originally Posted by lab

In general, kids who are healthy emotionally are not going to go to extremes. Making out at 12 is an extreme. And it isn't normal. There is usually something else going on if kids are acting out like that.

Again I agree w/lab. I have 2 teens. Supervision does not necessarily mean "putting your foot down" or strict rules. Most parents I identify with provide a healthy involvement in their kids lives where the kids are respected, have a voice, and allowed shall we say, freedom within parameters. Nearly all of the kids I have seen go through puberty and who are covering a spectrum of ages up to 25 or so were or are still quite innocent at age 12.

Although I agree that as parents none of us know exactly what our kids are doing all the time, I do believe that involved parents that do listen to and respect their kids choices are much better equipped to intuit when something is not quite right with their kids. It also provides a framework in which there is a lot less need to act out the way the kid in the OP is acting out.

[lab]

Originally Posted by Tigeresse

Again I agree w/lab. I have 2 teens. Supervision does not necessarily mean "putting your foot down" or strict rules. Most parents I identify with provide a healthy involvement in their kids lives where the kids are respected, have a voice, and allowed shall we say, freedom within parameters. Nearly all of the kids I have seen go through puberty and who are covering a spectrum of ages up to 25 or so were or are still quite innocent at age 12.

Although I agree that as parents none of us know exactly what our kids are doing all the time, I do believe that involved parents that do listen to and respect their kids choices are much better equipped to intuit when something is not quite right with their kids. It also provides a framework in which there is a lot less need to act out the way the kid in the OP is acting out.

Thank you for posting this. I could not agree more.

Very spot on. Plus you are more eloquent

[lilya'smum]

I don't know, it seems kind of "early" for me to start making out. But that doesnt mean it's entirely bad, and you dont need to overreact by the situation. The age gap is not a problem either, I mean he's 14. The story would change if he were 16. Unleast she's making out with her boyfriend and not random guys, but now that I think of it. I can't picture DD doing that 5 years from now. And I would consider it inappropiate.

[seaheroine]

Originally Posted by choli

You can't forcibly keep someone innocent. You can put your foot down all you like, but teens tend to be extremely well able to get around supervision and rules. So while you may be convinced that your DD is all ponies and puppies at 16, there may very well be a side of her life that you know nothing at all about, because you've made it impossible for her to discuss with you.

I speak from experience...

I speak from experience, too -- why would it be impossible for her to discuss things with me? I discussed (and still discuss) almost everything with my Mom. I'm not sure where you're getting impossibility of an open relationship?

I didn't even think of being physical with boys at 12, which I largely credit TO the open, close and invested relationship I shared with my parents. That and living a happy and somewhat sheltered life as a child - which can be done with love, guidance and mutual respect. Early sexuality and experimentation is not an inevitable activity for 12yos.

[seaheroine]

Originally Posted by Tigeresse

Again I agree w/lab. I have 2 teens. Supervision does not necessarily mean "putting your foot down" or strict rules. Most parents I identify with provide a healthy involvement in their kids lives where the kids are respected, have a voice, and allowed shall we say, freedom within parameters. Nearly all of the kids I have seen go through puberty and who are covering a spectrum of ages up to 25 or so were or are still quite innocent at age 12.

Although I agree that as parents none of us know exactly what our kids are doing all the time, I do believe that involved parents that do listen to and respect their kids choices are much better equipped to intuit when something is not quite right with their kids. It also provides a framework in which there is a lot less need to act out the way the kid in the OP is acting out.

Yes -- and to clarify, when I said "put my foot down", I meant that it is unacceptable, not that I'd be iron-fisted with DD. My parents didn't need to be controlling or punitive to inspire the type of love and respect for them I had at 12.

[MusicianDad]

Originally Posted by lab

Well, I speak from experience as well and everything really is all puppies and ponies.

And I want to clarify that I do not 'put my foot down' with my 15 year old.

Also, something that has been bugging me. I mentioned supervision as an important tool for me. Several posters have said that they were supervised to no avail. My question is - so then should I just not supervise at all? What is the point in those comments. To show that sometimes supervision doesn't work. Okay. I get that. Sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes you have kids going through divorces. Or perhaps they are depressed. Or maybe they have been abused. (I'm not saying any of general you have had this happen).

In general, kids who are healthy emotionally are not going to go to extremes. Making out at 12 is an extreme. And it isn't normal. There is usually something else going on if kids are acting out like that.

Disclaimer - this is all just my opinion based on having teenagers, being a teenager and being the sister of an out of control teenager.

The point is that just because a teen is doing things that you or someone else may not approve of doesn't automatically equate to lack of supervision.

In the end, the only person who has the capability of stopping a teen from doing something is the teen. You can raise them how you like and trying your best to make sure they won't do something you believe is wrong, but by the time they get to 12, 13, 14 they are starting to understand that their opinions on things differen from Mom and Dad and that they have final say in how they act. One thing I have picked up from friends who share experience, the parents who instil values without instilling the ability to stand up for those values regardless of who they are standing up too are the parents who's children are more likely to be coerced into doing things they don't want to do.

[EFmom]

Count me in as a fuddy duddy.

My dd is almost 12, and no, it's not normal for the kids she hangs out with to be making out with their boyfriends, and she's in public school. The girls are just noticing the boys and developing little crushes, but that's about it.

A 12 year old needs more supervision than this poor child is getting. I cannot imagine leaving my 12 year old alone overnight.

[choli]

Originally Posted by lab

Well, I speak from experience as well and everything really is all puppies and ponies.

You think. Many a mother has thought the same.

[lab]

Originally Posted by choli

You think. Many a mother has thought the same.

Gosh! Are you serious?

No. I don't think. I know. But thanks for your concern

[Calee]

The idea that EVERY CHILD IN THE WHOLE WIDE WORLD IS GOING TO ACT OUT!!!!!!!!!!!!! is ridiculous.

Of course some do. Of course some whose parents think they are doing everything right do.

That does NOT equate to everyone.

Please. One person's experience does not equal everyone elses in the entire universe.

My husband was a jock at a public school (in the 90's). He played sports, had a lot of friends, worked a job, etc. etc. He did not have sex until we were married and has never been drunk or done any drugs.

It happens people. There are kids who make good choices.

OP, I would be concerned too. As a PP, having "sexual" feelings as a young teen is understandable, but acting on them is not wise. The earlier this begins, the easier it is to go to the "next" step. Also, considering the history of teen pregnancy in her family, that would cause me to believe that young sex and pregnancy may be very normalized to her. I would also be concerned about her dating older boys-it *COULD* become an issue of her feeling pressured or trying to impress a more experienced partner.

[choli]

Originally Posted by Calee

The idea that EVERY CHILD IN THE WHOLE WIDE WORLD IS GOING TO ACT OUT!!!!!!!!!!!!! is ridiculous.

Of course some do. Of course some whose parents think they are doing everything right do.

That does NOT equate to everyone.

Please. One person's experience does not equal everyone elses in the entire universe.

My husband was a jock at a public school (in the 90's). He played sports, had a lot of friends, worked a job, etc. etc. He did not have sex until we were married and has never been drunk or done any drugs.

It happens people. There are kids who make good choices.

OP, I would be concerned too. As a PP, having "sexual" feelings as a young teen is understandable, but acting on them is not wise. The earlier this begins, the easier it is to go to the "next" step. Also, considering the history of teen pregnancy in her family, that would cause me to believe that young sex and pregnancy may be very normalized to her. I would also be concerned about her dating older boys-it *COULD* become an issue of her feeling pressured or trying to impress a more experienced partner.

But you see, I don't view a young person exploring his or her sexuality as acting out. I see it as a normal and natural part of life. Like walking, talking and potty learning, some come to it earlier and some later. And I don't see leaving sex until after marriage as a better choice than having sex when a person feels that they are ready to do so. So I guess we are coming at this from different angles.

[Storm Bride]

Originally Posted by lab

Also, something that has been bugging me. I mentioned supervision as an important tool for me. Several posters have said that they were supervised to no avail. My question is - so then should I just not supervise at all? What is the point in those comments. To show that sometimes supervision doesn't work. Okay. I get that. Sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes you have kids going through divorces. Or perhaps they are depressed. Or maybe they have been abused. (I'm not saying any of general you have had this happen).

My only point is that the fact that a girl is making out at age 12 does not necessarily mean there isn't adequate supervision. There could be lots of supervision - or not. It's the underlying "this is because of the parents" thing that bugs me.

In general, kids who are healthy emotionally are not going to go to extremes. Making out at 12 is an extreme. And it isn't normal. There is usually something else going on if kids are acting out like that.

Well, I wanted to be. Yes - I had some sexual abuse in my childhood. However, my desire to make out at age 12 had a lot to do with powerful hormones. Quite honestly, with the drive I had back then, I have no idea how I made it to 15, before I had sex. I knew a girl in my class who didn't even hit puberty until she was almost 17. Sometimes, the extremes are biological in nature...I've spent most of my adult life (until recently) with a fraction of the libido I had as a late preteen/teen.

[Storm Bride]

Originally Posted by Calee

My husband was a jock at a public school (in the 90's). He played sports, had a lot of friends, worked a job, etc. etc. He did not have sex until we were married and has never been drunk or done any drugs.

It happens people. There are kids who make good choices.

I'm actually pretty sure ds1 is one of them, actually. But, I don't fool myself into believing it's because I have him under the microscope or am the most perfect parent in the universe, yk?

I would also be concerned about her dating older boys-it *COULD* become an issue of her feeling pressured or trying to impress a more experienced partner.

It's possible. OTOH, I deliberately chose to lose my virginity to an older boy/man, because he was safer, imo. The boys at school were much more likely to feel a need to "prove" themselves, to get off on "cherry popping"...and to tell everybody in the locker room that they'd scored with me.

[MusicianDad]

Originally Posted by Calee

The idea that EVERY CHILD IN THE WHOLE WIDE WORLD IS GOING TO ACT OUT!!!!!!!!!!!!! is ridiculous.

Of course some do. Of course some whose parents think they are doing everything right do.

That does NOT equate to everyone.

Please. One person's experience does not equal everyone elses in the entire universe.

My husband was a jock at a public school (in the 90's). He played sports, had a lot of friends, worked a job, etc. etc. He did not have sex until we were married and has never been drunk or done any drugs.

It happens people. There are kids who make good choices.

OP, I would be concerned too. As a PP, having "sexual" feelings as a young teen is understandable, but acting on them is not wise. The earlier this begins, the easier it is to go to the "next" step. Also, considering the history of teen pregnancy in her family, that would cause me to believe that young sex and pregnancy may be very normalized to her. I would also be concerned about her dating older boys-it *COULD* become an issue of her feeling pressured or trying to impress a more experienced partner.

Can you honestly say your DH has never, ever as a child done anything against his parents?

On a more serious note though, you are assigning behaviour based on what you perceive as good and bad. Sex before marriage is not automatically a bad choice in our family, drinking is not automatically a bad choice, marijuana is a drug but not automatically a bad choice.

OTOH... Going along with what your parents say just because they are your parents and for no other reason is considered a bad choice in our family. We can pick up pretty easily when DD doesn't like what we've asked of her, and we don't like it if she chooses not to say anything. We would rather she argue the point so that one of two things can happen 1) she understands why we ask her to do what we want or 2) she demonstrates to us that doing the other or not doing it is not a bad thing.

Finally, it could be a sign that she has a problem that needs to be worked out, that she's seeing a 14 year old boy. Or it could be a sign that many 12 year old boys are... well as DD put it "gross and immature!" and heck she's only 10.

[Oriole]

I didn't read everything, but...

* I don't equate sex with acting out
* I am more than okay with premarital sex
* 12 y.o. is not 15 y.o., by far. by FAR!
* not every 12 y.o. will be making out behind their parents' back. I know I wasn't, and not all of my friends were. In fact, only two of my friends at that age went on beyond "I like that boy *giggle giggle*, and both of them had family problems.
* by 15, quite a few girls were making out, and that seemed a lot more "okay". I still didn't, not because I wasn't curious, but because luckily I was raised to wait for the right guy.

I think on average, 12 IS too early, and parental involvement and view on this matters a whole lot.

Just my humble opinion.

[pinksprklybarefoot]

OP here -

Well, they broke up last week. DSD's sister told us that they were "taking a break for the summer," but apparently he has already moved on to another girl. Not sure what precipitated the break-up, but everyone (except DSD's sister) is breathing a sigh of relief.

The guy did come to her ice skating show, and bring her flowers (this was after the break-up). We saw him sitting in a group of her friends. So they must still be friends, at least.

[Chamomile Girl]

Originally Posted by choli

You think. Many a mother has thought the same.

:

Its great that some parents know their kids well enough to have an honest sense of what is going on in the kid's life. But realistically, I don't think this is the norm. I think some of the assumptions in this thread about the nature of teen sexuality are way off. Twelve is not too young to have feelings of a sexual nature. Not all 12yr olds will, but many do. Not because they are "acting out" but because they have hit puberty.

I don't have jr.high students, but I teach freshmen and sophomores in highschool (age range is 13-16). You might be surprised about what 13yr olds talk about, post about on myspace, and try to get away with in school. Their parents usually are.

When I was 12 I had a 14yr old boyfriend too. Thing was we were in the same grade (8th) so didn't really see any age difference issue. We made out all.the.time. I was a horny kid. I honestly don't think I was acting out (We were both academic geekazoids fercryingoutloud.) I also had a very strong relationship with my mother. What's the big deal?

The issue of supervision is a good one though...by the time I started having sex (at age 16...senior in High School) my mom had left the state and I was living with my dad who was never home. Lets just say that made it really easy to be really stupid.

ETA: I think the real issue here for the OP is the lack of supervision the 12 year old has in her home. What kind of parent goes on vacation and leaves a 12year old home alone for a week!?